Far Cry 3 (December 4)
#201
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From: Jersey represent!
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
Finished Blood Dragon tonight. It gets better and better the further you get into it, and some of the stuff in the last hour or so is excellent. I'd give it a B+ overall - definitely worth the asking price if you enjoy FarCry 3 and/or bad 80s movies.
#202
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
An straight, uptight woman at Kotaku is here to protect us from what may or may not be a gay joke in Blood Dragon.
http://kotaku.com/the-gay-joke-in-fa...s-or-496604699
http://kotaku.com/the-gay-joke-in-fa...s-or-496604699
The first thing that immediately stood out to me when I initially previewed Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon wasn't the neon, it wasn't the hark back to the ridiculousness of the 80's, it wasn't even the blood dragons themselves. That's because I didn't get to see much of any of that before being hit with a gay, possibly homophobic joke.
If you've played the game, maybe you've come across it. It happens right at the start, during our introduction to the game—Rex 'Power' Colt is talking to Spider. If you'd like to watch it, it's in the video above. Here's the transcript:
Spider: Wakie wakie, motherfucker. Ops says there's a delay in the feed, they need to recalibrate your ass.
Rex: Me?
Spider: Well it ain't me 'cause I'm goddamn near perfect. Men want to be me—
Rex: And you want to be with men, yeah, I got it.
[Scene pauses on Spider's face for a second before Spider says something else.]
The context here is clear: in order to take Spider down a peg for his comment about being perfect, Rex implies Spider is gay. The pause right after the comment cements it as a "GOTCHA!" moment.
But was it harmful? Was the harm intentional, even—and if it wasn't intentionally harmful, did that matter? These were the questions I had a difficult time answering.
I wasn't really sure what to think at the time, but I made sure to ask creative director Dean Evans about it.
Kotaku: So one thing I noticed, there were a couple of homophobic jokes in there. What's that about?
[Evans was drinking a beer, which at this point he starts choking on. He puts his drink down.]
Evans: It is the least homophobic game you will ever, ever play. EVER.
Kotaku: Okay. Well I just noticed a couple of things—
Evans: Like what? Like what! Give us an example.
Kotaku: Well at the start, the guy was like, I can't remember his name, but he was like, "All men want to be me," and the other guy interjected, "And you want to be with all men."
Evans: How is that homophobic?
Kotaku: You don't think that's homophobic?
Evans: No. What if he's gay?
Kotaku: What if he's gay. Is he gay? He might be?
Evans: Did you read what was on his…uh, can you read Japanese?
Kotaku: Nope.
Evans: There's a little secret for you.
Kotaku: Okay…?
Evans: Honestly, if you knew the people who were working on this game, you'd realize it's the least homophobic game, if you knew our sexual orientations, you'd realize it's the least homophobic game out there.
Later, as if nervous, in between my other questions:
Evans: The writer, Lucian, Lucien Soulban, is one of the biggest, biggest gays in the world.
[I laughed nervously at this information, it seemed to come out of nowhere.]
Evans: He's like a bear, he's amazing…massive, sculpted beard, giant, hairy back, you see him in the weekend, he's got like, ball gags. To get back to…so we can be nice and frank with each other, just so you know, we are the least homophobic core team you're probably gonna meet in the business.
I still didn't know how to feel. The next day, after I wrote about the game, I asked a couple of people what they thought. For the most part, it seemed as if the reactions fell into two camps: no, it's not homophobic, or well, it's kind of harmless, isn't it?
I let it go and decided against printing the part of the interview about the joke. I did that even though I recognized in my gut that yes, it was a homophobic joke—despite being bros, and even if Spider is actually gay, Rex tries to undermine Spider's masculinity, not laud it.
Our own Chris Person has a theory—maybe the headband somehow signifies that Spider and Rex aren't just bros, but possibly lovers?
He calls spider gay as a joke. Spider is wearing that headband. Spider gets killed, and his headband falls off, he swears vengence, and when he wears it later in the game, it's to signify some sort of spiritual change, saying that on some level he is more than a machine, he has "a human heart".
There's nothing to prove [that they were lovers], yes, but that he would specifically bring it up is interesting.
His theory partially comes from Brian Ashcraft's translation of the headband:
The first two kanji characters say ”人の" (人 = hito = person; の = no = 's), and from looking at the third character, I'm guessing it says "愛" ("ai" or "love), but it's blurry and really hard to make out...so maybe it says "人の愛" ("hito no ai" or "A person's love").
Writing "人の愛" on a headband is just so awkward sounding to me in Japanese. Usually people would probable write something like "二人の愛" ( "futari no ai" or "two people's love"), instead of a singular ”人の愛". Writing something like "人の心" or "hito no kokoro" ("A person's heart" or "A person's spirit") seems far more natural, but even then...
Not much to go off of, in terms of contextualizing the scene, I'd say—so I'm not sure I buy the theory. On top of that, thinking about Evan's response regarding the sexuality of the developers and how that means the game couldn't possibly be homophobic—I don't think your identity somehow exempts you from saying something harmful. I've certainly said sexist things in the past despite being a woman, for example. Regardless, I decided against saying anything because it still feels like tricky territory to call someone out on something like this when the creators themselves are gay.
And more importantly than that, for some reason, all I could think was—well, maybe it is harmless? Maybe it's okay, even? Which, looking back now, seems baffling for a number of reasons. The joke isn't funny, for one. It's not a satire of the 80's or its machismo—it reinforces some archaic ideas of what a real man is. Whether or not it's homophobic is clear to me, the only thing that's left is deciding whether or not you find that offensive. Taking a step back from Far Cry 3 here, let's look at the big picture: What does it mean, to consider a homophobic joke "harmless?"
We are taught to pick our battles, that's part of it. Something small like this gets looked over for the blatant and aggressively bigoted. A 'small' joke like that looks silly in comparison to, say, the Westboro Baptist Church. With Westboro, the danger seems clear—but it's also a comically extreme position, no? Does something have to go that far for it to pose a sort of danger that's worth calling out? Does it not follow that letting "small" things pass creates a culture that silently tells people it's okay to be bigoted?
Reexamining now, after seeing someone tweet about how it took like 90 seconds before Blood Dragon needlessly threw out a homophobic joke, I can't help but wonder if I thought of it in the right way, initially.
The people this affects—they have a lifetime of 'harmless' jokes jabbing them as they go along. Does that not build up? Maybe they laugh. Maybe they shrug it off. Maybe they make the jokes too. You need to be able to do these things, really—you need to be able to take it on the chin. How else will you cope with a society that seems unable to accept who you are? How do you deal with being constantly told that you can't even be upset about it—just a joke, jeez!
Much of this is like perpetually having a tiny rock in your shoe. It's a annoyance, albeit a small one. Harmless, if you will.
Maybe you feel tired—maybe you think to yourself: god, fuck, here we are again. Talkin' about sensitive issues like sexuality and gender. We are all tired, I assure you. Some people more than others. I'm willing to bet that the people who are the most tired are those who are constantly under attack by malicious and "harmless" things alike, though. Funnily enough they are the ones who have to shrug it off.
I am not gay, but I know how these "harmless" jokes build up over time—I think, for example, having my family constantly joke about when I'm getting married, or about my weight. It is harmless; they don't intend to be hurtful—in the same way that I doubt the people behind Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon were intentionally trying to be harmful or homophobic. That's fine, though it doesn't mean it can't end up being hurtful anyway.
Much of this is like perpetually having a tiny rock in your shoe. It's a annoyance, albeit a small one. Harmless, if you will. Small enough that you could live with it if you really wanted to, maybe even ignore it despite the blisters.
Is the joke harmless? It's a pebble in a shoe.
If you've played the game, maybe you've come across it. It happens right at the start, during our introduction to the game—Rex 'Power' Colt is talking to Spider. If you'd like to watch it, it's in the video above. Here's the transcript:
Spider: Wakie wakie, motherfucker. Ops says there's a delay in the feed, they need to recalibrate your ass.
Rex: Me?
Spider: Well it ain't me 'cause I'm goddamn near perfect. Men want to be me—
Rex: And you want to be with men, yeah, I got it.
[Scene pauses on Spider's face for a second before Spider says something else.]
The context here is clear: in order to take Spider down a peg for his comment about being perfect, Rex implies Spider is gay. The pause right after the comment cements it as a "GOTCHA!" moment.
But was it harmful? Was the harm intentional, even—and if it wasn't intentionally harmful, did that matter? These were the questions I had a difficult time answering.
I wasn't really sure what to think at the time, but I made sure to ask creative director Dean Evans about it.
Kotaku: So one thing I noticed, there were a couple of homophobic jokes in there. What's that about?
[Evans was drinking a beer, which at this point he starts choking on. He puts his drink down.]
Evans: It is the least homophobic game you will ever, ever play. EVER.
Kotaku: Okay. Well I just noticed a couple of things—
Evans: Like what? Like what! Give us an example.
Kotaku: Well at the start, the guy was like, I can't remember his name, but he was like, "All men want to be me," and the other guy interjected, "And you want to be with all men."
Evans: How is that homophobic?
Kotaku: You don't think that's homophobic?
Evans: No. What if he's gay?
Kotaku: What if he's gay. Is he gay? He might be?
Evans: Did you read what was on his…uh, can you read Japanese?
Kotaku: Nope.
Evans: There's a little secret for you.
Kotaku: Okay…?
Evans: Honestly, if you knew the people who were working on this game, you'd realize it's the least homophobic game, if you knew our sexual orientations, you'd realize it's the least homophobic game out there.
Later, as if nervous, in between my other questions:
Evans: The writer, Lucian, Lucien Soulban, is one of the biggest, biggest gays in the world.
[I laughed nervously at this information, it seemed to come out of nowhere.]
Evans: He's like a bear, he's amazing…massive, sculpted beard, giant, hairy back, you see him in the weekend, he's got like, ball gags. To get back to…so we can be nice and frank with each other, just so you know, we are the least homophobic core team you're probably gonna meet in the business.
I still didn't know how to feel. The next day, after I wrote about the game, I asked a couple of people what they thought. For the most part, it seemed as if the reactions fell into two camps: no, it's not homophobic, or well, it's kind of harmless, isn't it?
I let it go and decided against printing the part of the interview about the joke. I did that even though I recognized in my gut that yes, it was a homophobic joke—despite being bros, and even if Spider is actually gay, Rex tries to undermine Spider's masculinity, not laud it.
Our own Chris Person has a theory—maybe the headband somehow signifies that Spider and Rex aren't just bros, but possibly lovers?
He calls spider gay as a joke. Spider is wearing that headband. Spider gets killed, and his headband falls off, he swears vengence, and when he wears it later in the game, it's to signify some sort of spiritual change, saying that on some level he is more than a machine, he has "a human heart".
There's nothing to prove [that they were lovers], yes, but that he would specifically bring it up is interesting.
His theory partially comes from Brian Ashcraft's translation of the headband:
The first two kanji characters say ”人の" (人 = hito = person; の = no = 's), and from looking at the third character, I'm guessing it says "愛" ("ai" or "love), but it's blurry and really hard to make out...so maybe it says "人の愛" ("hito no ai" or "A person's love").
Writing "人の愛" on a headband is just so awkward sounding to me in Japanese. Usually people would probable write something like "二人の愛" ( "futari no ai" or "two people's love"), instead of a singular ”人の愛". Writing something like "人の心" or "hito no kokoro" ("A person's heart" or "A person's spirit") seems far more natural, but even then...
Not much to go off of, in terms of contextualizing the scene, I'd say—so I'm not sure I buy the theory. On top of that, thinking about Evan's response regarding the sexuality of the developers and how that means the game couldn't possibly be homophobic—I don't think your identity somehow exempts you from saying something harmful. I've certainly said sexist things in the past despite being a woman, for example. Regardless, I decided against saying anything because it still feels like tricky territory to call someone out on something like this when the creators themselves are gay.
And more importantly than that, for some reason, all I could think was—well, maybe it is harmless? Maybe it's okay, even? Which, looking back now, seems baffling for a number of reasons. The joke isn't funny, for one. It's not a satire of the 80's or its machismo—it reinforces some archaic ideas of what a real man is. Whether or not it's homophobic is clear to me, the only thing that's left is deciding whether or not you find that offensive. Taking a step back from Far Cry 3 here, let's look at the big picture: What does it mean, to consider a homophobic joke "harmless?"
We are taught to pick our battles, that's part of it. Something small like this gets looked over for the blatant and aggressively bigoted. A 'small' joke like that looks silly in comparison to, say, the Westboro Baptist Church. With Westboro, the danger seems clear—but it's also a comically extreme position, no? Does something have to go that far for it to pose a sort of danger that's worth calling out? Does it not follow that letting "small" things pass creates a culture that silently tells people it's okay to be bigoted?
Reexamining now, after seeing someone tweet about how it took like 90 seconds before Blood Dragon needlessly threw out a homophobic joke, I can't help but wonder if I thought of it in the right way, initially.
The people this affects—they have a lifetime of 'harmless' jokes jabbing them as they go along. Does that not build up? Maybe they laugh. Maybe they shrug it off. Maybe they make the jokes too. You need to be able to do these things, really—you need to be able to take it on the chin. How else will you cope with a society that seems unable to accept who you are? How do you deal with being constantly told that you can't even be upset about it—just a joke, jeez!
Much of this is like perpetually having a tiny rock in your shoe. It's a annoyance, albeit a small one. Harmless, if you will.
Maybe you feel tired—maybe you think to yourself: god, fuck, here we are again. Talkin' about sensitive issues like sexuality and gender. We are all tired, I assure you. Some people more than others. I'm willing to bet that the people who are the most tired are those who are constantly under attack by malicious and "harmless" things alike, though. Funnily enough they are the ones who have to shrug it off.
I am not gay, but I know how these "harmless" jokes build up over time—I think, for example, having my family constantly joke about when I'm getting married, or about my weight. It is harmless; they don't intend to be hurtful—in the same way that I doubt the people behind Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon were intentionally trying to be harmful or homophobic. That's fine, though it doesn't mean it can't end up being hurtful anyway.
Much of this is like perpetually having a tiny rock in your shoe. It's a annoyance, albeit a small one. Harmless, if you will. Small enough that you could live with it if you really wanted to, maybe even ignore it despite the blisters.
Is the joke harmless? It's a pebble in a shoe.
#203
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Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
I think she raises some very valid points. I noticed the joke as well when playing the trial. It's right at the beginning, and it's played for laughs for what seems like no other reason besides LOL GAY!
Honestly, it was an immediate turn-off and it's one of the reasons I decided not to buy the game.
Honestly, it was an immediate turn-off and it's one of the reasons I decided not to buy the game.
#204
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
Estimated playtime?
#205
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
Considering the dedication you have to your friend Spider in the game, why can't anyone see it as "Yeah you say that stupid catchphrase all the time, I get it."
Not to mention that both characters ARE GODDAMN CYBORGS.
Not to mention that both characters ARE GODDAMN CYBORGS.
Last edited by chuckd21; 05-09-13 at 09:52 AM.
#206
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From: Jersey represent!
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
I think she raises some very valid points. I noticed the joke as well when playing the trial. It's right at the beginning, and it's played for laughs for what seems like no other reason besides LOL GAY!
Honestly, it was an immediate turn-off and it's one of the reasons I decided not to buy the game.
Honestly, it was an immediate turn-off and it's one of the reasons I decided not to buy the game.
#207
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From: Jersey represent!
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
The in-game timer said about 3.5 hours, but with cutscenes and restarting missions, I'd guess around 4 or 5 hours. I plan to go back and get the rest of the collectibles and liberate the remaining outposts, which will probably add another couple of hours of play time.
#209
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
Yeah, there's A LOT of outposts to liberate, and then the side-missions after liberating them. All that more than doubles the 4 hour main story. Seriously, this game is as big and long (dick pun) as most full-priced first-person-shooters out there.
#210
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
I finished last night as well. Liberated all outposts, did all side missions, got all collectibles in under 8 hours. Since there are no achievements for playing on harder difficulties I just played through on easy. I'm only mission 3 achievements and probably won't go back to get them. A very fun game if you liked the Fry Cry 3 play style. The end of the game was pretty awesome.
#211
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From: San Diego
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
I did 100% of everything on Easy in just under 6 hours, so the 6-8 hour estimate seems correct. Just doing the few story missions is probably only 2 hours. Looting every single damn corpse in the game is what takes so long.
#212
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From: Earth
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
Are there a lot of weapons and customizations as in Far Cry 3 or it is more limited too? I recently finished Far Cry 3 and really liked it but couldn't see myself revisiting it. However given a crazy 80's envisioned future, yeah maybe I could revisit a Far Cry 3 re skin.
#214
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
i am thinking of getting FC3 while it is on sale on Steam. I have a few quick questions
--Is ammo very scarce? I am not expecting infinite ammo, but I don't like having to constantly be worried about running out.
--Can you actually hide from enemies? I played some FC 2 and it seemed like the enemies always knew where I was and were beastly marksman.
--Can you save anywhere? With small windows of playtime, I hate having to search for save points if my kid wakes up from a nap early or is screaming his head off all of the sudden
--Is it optimized well for the PC? I have a mediocre laptop, but if a game is on the Xbox 360 or PS3, I can play that game fairly well on the PC.
--Is ammo very scarce? I am not expecting infinite ammo, but I don't like having to constantly be worried about running out.
--Can you actually hide from enemies? I played some FC 2 and it seemed like the enemies always knew where I was and were beastly marksman.
--Can you save anywhere? With small windows of playtime, I hate having to search for save points if my kid wakes up from a nap early or is screaming his head off all of the sudden
--Is it optimized well for the PC? I have a mediocre laptop, but if a game is on the Xbox 360 or PS3, I can play that game fairly well on the PC.
#217
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
i am thinking of getting FC3 while it is on sale on Steam. I have a few quick questions
--Is ammo very scarce? I am not expecting infinite ammo, but I don't like having to constantly be worried about running out.
--Can you actually hide from enemies? I played some FC 2 and it seemed like the enemies always knew where I was and were beastly marksman.
--Can you save anywhere? With small windows of playtime, I hate having to search for save points if my kid wakes up from a nap early or is screaming his head off all of the sudden
--Is it optimized well for the PC? I have a mediocre laptop, but if a game is on the Xbox 360 or PS3, I can play that game fairly well on the PC.
--Is ammo very scarce? I am not expecting infinite ammo, but I don't like having to constantly be worried about running out.
--Can you actually hide from enemies? I played some FC 2 and it seemed like the enemies always knew where I was and were beastly marksman.
--Can you save anywhere? With small windows of playtime, I hate having to search for save points if my kid wakes up from a nap early or is screaming his head off all of the sudden
--Is it optimized well for the PC? I have a mediocre laptop, but if a game is on the Xbox 360 or PS3, I can play that game fairly well on the PC.
Very well optimized. I wouldn't say the game ran well on the Xbox 360 or PS3 though, the framerate was painfully low. Runs amazingly well on PCs though.
#220
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
It's much shorter (though just as big, area-wise), but I enjoyed Blood Dragon MUCH more than the vanilla FC3, which could be a bit of a chore.
#221
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
cool thanks for the responses.
The main thing i want in FC3 is being able to sneak up to a camp, pick off bad guys and be able to hide and go undetected. I don't want to kill the first guy efficiently and then everyone automatically knows where i am and kills me even though they shouldn't be able to see me.
I will have to read about the FC Dragon game...i have no clue what that is. Is it an expansion pack?
The main thing i want in FC3 is being able to sneak up to a camp, pick off bad guys and be able to hide and go undetected. I don't want to kill the first guy efficiently and then everyone automatically knows where i am and kills me even though they shouldn't be able to see me.
I will have to read about the FC Dragon game...i have no clue what that is. Is it an expansion pack?
#222
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
Naw, it's its own game entirely. It's a standalone tribute to 1980s action scifi films.
#223
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
As far as sneaking up on baddies in FC3; I found it to be kind of a crap shoot. Sometimes I could take a guy out and stay hidden, other times not, even though I did nothing different. It was unpredictable.
#224
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From: Picture a cup in the middle of the sea
Re: Far Cry 3 (December 4)
The main thing i want in FC3 is being able to sneak up to a camp, pick off bad guys and be able to hide and go undetected. I don't want to kill the first guy efficiently and then everyone automatically knows where i am and kills me even though they shouldn't be able to see me.



