kgrogers1979

Steam has sales all the time, including a massive Christmas sale every year where pretty much everything is 50%-80% off. Steam has been great for the PC game industry, and I don't miss buy PC games on physical media at all.

DaveyJoe

This, thanks to Steam's awesome sales, buying digital-only versions of PC games has become the norm for me.

chuckd21

Yes, Steam sales are awesome.

Now, compare that with Xbox Marketplace sales. Not counting discounts on XBLA titles, anytime there's a "sale" on something it's usually a pathetic discount. This week, some game normally $25 is $22.50! Screw that.

fujishig

I think the heavy discounts, early and often, while good for the consumer are bad for the game developer. Why bother buying games at full price at launch unless they're AAA titles with multiplayer? You're training the consumer to wait for a deal (barring stuff like Xmas and birthdays). Ubisoft, for instance, has me perfectly trained never to buy their titles at launch.

As for digital titles... they'll still go on sale, if the current marketplace is any indication. We won't get stuff like Target clearance or B2G1F (since that would take publisher coordination), but publishers still want to move their product and they understand that pricedrops can induce sales.

Groucho

What's bothering me is developers adding "Freemium" features to full-price games. For example, I was shocked the first time I fired up SSX and saw the option to buy in-game currency with MS points.

kgrogers1979

Well the big difference between Xbox Marketplace and Steam is that the console digital market is still in its infancy. Consoles are always behind, and PCs are a good foreshadowing of what future consoles will be like.

With Xbox Marketplace still being in its infancy, there aren't many sales because simply they can't afford to have sales. The vast majority of console gamers still buy physical media, not digital media. Its the complete opposite on PC with most PC gamers buying digital games, and in fact many PC games aren't even released on physical media anymore. Once consoles catch up and become more like that, Xbox Marketplace will then be able to have more and better sales and still remain profitable.

argh923

I know if they go to "all digital" I will buy many, many less games. I hate not actually having the game or movie in a physical medium.

Compare that to music, where I prefer MP3.

Michael Corvin

At sub $10 pricing music has become disposable. A $60 digital whatever won't be considered the same.

Jay G.

Here's an article that has a counterargument to sales devaluing games:
http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...velopers-and-p

Video games have always dropped in price, you just had to wait long enough. The sales drive people to buy it sooner, and at a sale price instead of on clearance, for a digital product that they can't resell.

This argument doesn't make sense, since PC digital sales were once in their "infancy" as well, and in fact it could be argued that the sale prices is what drove PC buyers to digital versions. It probably didn't hurt that PC publishers pushed "online-activation" and other DRM schemes that made their physical product no more attractive, and perhaps less so, than a digital copy.

Another point though is that the PC digital retailers have competitors. Steam competes with Amazon, Gamersgate, GOG, Desura, etc. for the same sales. Xbox Marketplace has no competitor for digital sales of Xbox games. As a result, Microsoft doesn't have as vested an interest in promoting sale pricing.

I think the interesting point here isn't that you have a different preference for different forms of entertainment, but in trying to figure out why this difference exists. Is it portability? Pricing? Is it because you sell or trade old games, and keep all your music? Is it that MP3s are DRM-free, while many digital games aren't?

kgrogers1979

I used to be the same way, wanting everything on physical media. Then something changed, I don't really know what, but I have been using Steam for the last several years and haven't bought a PC game on physical media since. I surprisingly don't miss buying on physical media at all.

Now something like comic books I still greatly prefer the physical product because reading on a computer screen or even reading it on an ipad is not the same experience. For video games and movies it makes no difference since the experience is still the same.


Yes, Steam was once in its infancy as well, and they couldn't afford to have sales back then and remain profitable. The massive holiday type sales haven't been around forever.

I don't think online-activation and/or DRM drove people to digital. For one thing, Steam is online and requires you activate the game online initially at least. Some digital versions still have the same DRM restriction as the physical counterpart. I know Bioshock had that annoying 3-install limit in both physical and digital versions. Also, DRM isn't that big of a deal honestly. The people that complain about it are a vocal minority. Most people couldn't care less.

Saying Steam has competitors is like saying MS Windows has competitors. Sure there are other OS's like Linux and Mac, but Windows still controls ~90% of the market. Steam is the same, controlling ~90% of the market. GoG doesn't even compete for the same demographics. GoG specializes in digital versions of old DOS and Win 95/98 games. There are a few modern games on GoG, but they are a minority.

fujishig

I actually meant the sales on physical copies. They've trained people to wait. Like I said, absolutely no reason to buy a game at release that doesn't have multiplayer and is not a AAA title, because it'll be on sale within the month and then the slope only goes down.

Steam has gigantic sales during Xmas, but usually not awesome sales on the AAA recent releases (some decent ones, but not deep discount), and sporadic sales during the rest of the year.

mhg83

The last game i paid full price on was Skyrim. I've put about 97 hours in and still have more to do. Probably will be 150-200 hrs in the end. I definitely got my moneys worth. The upside to having it and others on pc is mods extend the life of the game greatly.

And when it comes to physical vs digital pc titles the consumer is backed into a corner. Go into any B & M store and the selection of pc titles has shrunk to only a few new titles and some crappy kids educational games.

kgrogers1979

You still shop at brick and mortar stores? That's so 1990s.

Jay G.

Steam launched in Sept 2003. XBLA arcade launched in December 2004. Meanwhile, Steam has had sales since at least April 2007, and possibly much earlier. See this thread:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...17#post6480017

And there are significant price reductions listed there, some 75% off.

Also, I think you're incredibly overestimating the costs of digital distribution if you think that they couldn't have afforded the sales early on or with a smaller marketbase. The costs for delivering digital content are incredible small.

In this interview with Valve's Gabe Newell, it seems that any initial delay in Steam providing deep discounts was simply because they didn't understand the market yet, and had to experiment to realize just how profitable deep discount sales could be:
http://www.geekwire.com/2011/experim...s-gabe-newell/

I didn't mean that people moved to digital as an alternative to DRM, but that DRM blurred the lines between owning a physical vs digital product so much that downloading didn't have a major disadvantage in this area. Using your example of Bioshock, if you can only install a given copy 3 times no matter where you bought it, then it doesn't really matter if you own a physical copy or digital download so much.

This is where console games differ: in that the physical product can be resold or traded much more readily, giving physical copies an advantage over digital downloads. This will make adoption slower, unless digital downloads offer other advantages like lower prices.


This article from June 2011 states that Steam has around 55% of the market.
http://www.prlog.org/11520350-digita...microsoft.html

Still, even 90% market share is a monumental difference than 100%, which is what Microsoft has with digital downloads of Xbox games. Steam doesn't have a monopoly, and thus doesn't have absolute control. Steam instead has to maintain its dominance by constantly trying to be the best download platform for both developers and publishers.

For an example, let's take a look at this list of top online retailers from 2010:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverch...m-says-survey/

Not only does it show how fickle the online market can be (D2D dropped from #2 on that list to #6 in the June 2011 chart I linked to above), but it shows that the #4 online retailer was worldofwarcraft.com, a site selling only one game.

And that's the point: with Steam, publishers always have the option of choosing an alternate online distributor, or releasing on their own site. Take EA not selling Battlefield 3 on Steam, instead opting to use their own Origin service and other online retailers like Direct2Drive and GamersGate:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...eld-3-on-Steam

Meanwhile, digital downloads of Battlefield 3 for Xbox are only available in one place, Xbox Marketplace:
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Pr...5-d80245410950

The same is with consumers. If I want to buy a digital copy of a game and don't want, for whatever reason, to use Steam, I have other options. There isn't that option for Xbox. I either buy it through Microsoft or not at all in that format.

foxdvd

You can't compare a 1-5 dollar small game to a 60 dollar game like Call of Duty... the problem is when you compare 12-60 different 1-5 dollar games to one 60 dollar game like Brink...or Kane & Lynch 2....or many many other shit 60 dollar games. 60 bucks gets you a lot of games for your phone/kindle/ipad...

Odds are you are going to get a lot more enjoyment out of the 12-60 games than one average or even bad 60 dollar game. If they do go digital only or have a code next generation so that you can not buy used... sales are going to drop like a brick. They are going to push consumers even more toward games like Call of Duty or Halo...something we know we will like.

Giantrobo

Sooo, I have a DROID and I've never paid for Angry Birds.

PopcornTreeCt

Yeah, I used to have a droid and it was awesome. I have an iPhone and have never paid for an app. Not because I'm jailbreaking or anything, just because I'm never going to pay for an app. I don't need angry birds on my phone when I can simply pass the time by reading news articles.

fujishig

I'm still amazed by this... are there that many people that buy games used, or trade games in? I guess there are, otherwise Gamestop would be out of business...

I was just playing that iphone/ipad Arkham Asylum game... it's pretty good for that type of game, but no way does it compare to the console/PC version, even if you could by 10 of them for the same price.

foxdvd

Yeah but a game like Batman will always do well. It is an amazing experience that is worth twice what I paid. Unfortunately for every Batman there are 4 crap games. All of these games cost the same. We continue to see fewer and fewer early reviews of these games. On top of that they want to make it so you have to buy it blind and if you don't like it you are out of luck. I will take 10 kindle fire games over 1 Kane and Lynch 2 game any day of the week.

foxdvd

and to add to my above post...I can't think of 20 android games combined I would take over a game like Dark Souls....

edstein

Dude, you obviously haven't played Paper Toss.

GiGzmo

Here In India.. U get PC Games at 20$ Max [except Call Of Duty-60$].. Which gets reduced to 15-16 $ in a couple of months!
Isn't that C00L..
But the console games sell for the usual 60$
Steam Is only used for extreme discounts..!!

PhantomStranger

Prices are already over $60 if you count DLC and extras. They are not going down in price anytime soon. Just the potential of a megahit is enough for publishers to continue investing in lavish, expensive videogames.