Steam Machine - coming 2026
#77
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Godfather
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
Interview with Gabe:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/8/385...ture-of-gaming
I like his thoughts on motion gaming, which I agree with and largely dislike.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/8/385...ture-of-gaming
So you're working on your own Steam Box hardware. Why work with so many partners when you have your own ideal design in mind?
What we see is you've got this sort of struggle going on between closed proprietary systems and open systems. We think that there are pluses and minuses to open systems that could make things a little messier, it’s much more like herding cats, so we try to take the pieces where we’re going to add the best value and then encourage other people to do it. So it tends to mean that a lot of people get involved. We’re not imposing a lot of restrictions on people on how they’re getting involved.
We've heard lots of rumors about the Steam Box, including that Valve's own hardware would be "tightly controlled." Can you tell us more about Valve's own hardware effort?
The way we sort of think of it is sort of "Good, Better," or "Best." So, Good are like these very low-cost streaming solutions that you’re going to see that are using Miracast or Grid. I think we’re talking about in-home solutions where you’ve got low latency. "Better" is to have a dedicated CPU and GPU and that’s the one that’s going to be controlled. Not because our goal is to control it; it’s been surprisingly difficult when we say to people "don’t put an optical media drive in there" and they put an optical media drive in there and you’re like "that makes it hotter, that makes it more expensive, and it makes the box bigger." Go ahead. You can always sell the Best box, and those are just whatever those guys want to manufacture. [Valve's position is]: let's build a thing that’s quiet and focuses on high performance and quiet and appropriate form factors.
What we see is you've got this sort of struggle going on between closed proprietary systems and open systems. We think that there are pluses and minuses to open systems that could make things a little messier, it’s much more like herding cats, so we try to take the pieces where we’re going to add the best value and then encourage other people to do it. So it tends to mean that a lot of people get involved. We’re not imposing a lot of restrictions on people on how they’re getting involved.
We've heard lots of rumors about the Steam Box, including that Valve's own hardware would be "tightly controlled." Can you tell us more about Valve's own hardware effort?
The way we sort of think of it is sort of "Good, Better," or "Best." So, Good are like these very low-cost streaming solutions that you’re going to see that are using Miracast or Grid. I think we’re talking about in-home solutions where you’ve got low latency. "Better" is to have a dedicated CPU and GPU and that’s the one that’s going to be controlled. Not because our goal is to control it; it’s been surprisingly difficult when we say to people "don’t put an optical media drive in there" and they put an optical media drive in there and you’re like "that makes it hotter, that makes it more expensive, and it makes the box bigger." Go ahead. You can always sell the Best box, and those are just whatever those guys want to manufacture. [Valve's position is]: let's build a thing that’s quiet and focuses on high performance and quiet and appropriate form factors.
Speaking of controllers, what kind of creative inputs are you working on? Valve has already confessed its dissatisfaction with existing controllers and the kinds of inputs available. Kinect? Motion?
We’ve struggled for a long time to try to think of ways to use motion input and we really haven’t. Wii Sports is still kind of the pinnacle of that. We look at that, and for us at least, as a games developer, we can’t see how it makes games fundamentally better. On the controller side, the stuff we’re thinking of is kind of super boring stuff all around latency and precision. There’s no magic there, everybody understands when you say "I want something that’s more precise and is less laggy." We think that, unlike motion input where we kind of struggled to come up with ideas, [there's potential in] biometrics. We have lots of ideas.
I think you’ll see controllers coming from us that use a lot of biometric data. Maybe the motion stuff is just failure of imagination on our part, but we’re a lot more excited about biometrics as an input method. Motion just seems to be a way of [thinking] of your body as a set of communication channels. Your hands, and your wrist muscles, and your fingers are actually your highest bandwidth -- so to try and talk to a game with your arms is essentially saying "oh we’re gonna stop using ethernet and go back to 300 baud dial-up." Maybe there are other ways to think of that. There’s more engagement when you’re using larger skeletal muscles, but whenever we go down [that path] we sort of come away unconvinced. Biometrics on the other hand is essentially adding more communication bandwidth between the game and the person playing it, especially in ways the player isn’t necessarily conscious of. Biometrics gives us more visibility. Also, gaze tracking. we think gaze tracking is gonna turn out to be super important.
We’ve struggled for a long time to try to think of ways to use motion input and we really haven’t. Wii Sports is still kind of the pinnacle of that. We look at that, and for us at least, as a games developer, we can’t see how it makes games fundamentally better. On the controller side, the stuff we’re thinking of is kind of super boring stuff all around latency and precision. There’s no magic there, everybody understands when you say "I want something that’s more precise and is less laggy." We think that, unlike motion input where we kind of struggled to come up with ideas, [there's potential in] biometrics. We have lots of ideas.
I think you’ll see controllers coming from us that use a lot of biometric data. Maybe the motion stuff is just failure of imagination on our part, but we’re a lot more excited about biometrics as an input method. Motion just seems to be a way of [thinking] of your body as a set of communication channels. Your hands, and your wrist muscles, and your fingers are actually your highest bandwidth -- so to try and talk to a game with your arms is essentially saying "oh we’re gonna stop using ethernet and go back to 300 baud dial-up." Maybe there are other ways to think of that. There’s more engagement when you’re using larger skeletal muscles, but whenever we go down [that path] we sort of come away unconvinced. Biometrics on the other hand is essentially adding more communication bandwidth between the game and the person playing it, especially in ways the player isn’t necessarily conscious of. Biometrics gives us more visibility. Also, gaze tracking. we think gaze tracking is gonna turn out to be super important.
#78
DVD Talk Legend
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
Xi3's X7A, which is physically the same size as the "Piston," is actually a rocking machine at $999:
As it stands right now, that blows practically every current-generation gaming console (360, PS3, and Wii U) right out of the water. The better question will be how far can Valve subsidize the hardware in making it affordable in the living room?
Originally Posted by Xi3's Press Release from October 2012
carrying a quad-core 64-bit, x86-based 32nm processor running at up to 3.2GHz underneath the hood accompanied by up to 8GB RAM, a 64GB SSD or 1TB HD, a trio of display ports, four eSATAp 3.0 ports, four USB 3.0 ports, four USB 2.0 ports, an 1Gb Ethernet port, and three audio ports.
#79
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Godfather
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
Curious what CPU they're using; if the graphics are integrated, I'd assume an AMD chip like the A10 since anything from Intel currently wouldn't cut it. At $999 the specs aren't anything special (if not double what you could probably custom build in a small ITX case), but obviously you're paying for the ridiculously small size more then anything else.
#82
DVD Talk Hero
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
a linux-based Steam Box is only as good as the linux catalog of steam games, right?
In other words...
In other words...
#83
DVD Talk Hero
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
...I would laugh my ass off if there were a sudden hard shift to OpenGL.
#85
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
What's wrong with a dedicated PC running Steam Big Picture mode and an Xbox 360 controller connected to TV? Why do I need a Steambox?
#86
#87
DVD Talk Hero
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
Steam Box = Laptop or HTPC with an Xbox 360 controller plugged into your TV. Done.
#88
DVD Talk Legend
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026

I get why Valve is so inclined OpenGL. It allows a developer to do a lot more than DirectX as it has more direct access to the hardware. All of the Valve games run far better in OpenGL on Linux than with DirectX with Windows. I also get there are advantages and disadvantages to OpenGL. One of the advantages why Steam might be more inclined to use (Linux and) OpenGL is that you can get a lot of power while using very minimal (i.e. cheaper) hardware. Just look at OpenGL ES 3.0. You can get close to current-generation graphics on a smartphone or tablet. You would also have practically every independent developer on board. The disadvantage is that a lot of the big developers and publishers might not see an investment in having to now recode their games for OpenGL on a system that may or may not work.
As Sony has proven, most people are not willing to pay more than $399 for a gaming console. Based upon prototypes Valve were playing with, the Steambox could cost a grand. The majority will not spend a thousand bucks on a box to connect to their television. However, if Valve can build together a box that has similar hardware at half the price, then it might get people interested and bought it.
It could be this generation's Xbox. Or it could be this generation's Dreamcast.
#89
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
More uninformed nonsense. Neither Sony or MS use DirectX on the consoles.Also, as far as I'm aware, this project is cancelled/on hold.
edit: The project I was referring to is the actual "Steam box". I believe they are going to go a different route and just rely on OEM's to release licensed "Steam Boxes" which I guess in the end is sort of the same thing.
Last edited by flashburn; 09-17-13 at 07:17 AM.
#90
#91
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
#92
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
Because I'm not dealing with drivers and graphics cards and all the stuff that comes with building your own rig. If I'm going to ever be a "PC gamer" it'll be on a box someone else makes that was made to do what I want it to do.
#93
DVD Talk Hero
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
That's why I said laptop first, they're just pricey with decent video cards.
Drivers and Graphics Cards are non-issues these days, the bigger problem is just having the occasional pop-up window for configuration purposes before a game loads.
Drivers and Graphics Cards are non-issues these days, the bigger problem is just having the occasional pop-up window for configuration purposes before a game loads.
#94
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Godfather
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
I would have guessed any Linux/OpenGL stuff started by not having to deal with Windows and licensing for something like this, and the performance benefit came after working on it. I still don't have much confidence in Linux gaming any time soon.
#96
DVD Talk Legend
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
When Steam games started getting launched on the Mac, they were built specifically for 10.6 and OpenGL 3.0. The problem being video cards at that time were built with OpenGL 3.2 and higher and the Mac OS simply didn't support it. 10.9 will be the first Mac OS to fully support OpenGL 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2. As Lion and Mountain Lion came out, Steam never updated any of their drivers or games to support the (limited) functionality that 10.7 and 10.8 had supported for 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, and 4.0. As it stands, most of the Steam games on the Mac OS are broken and aren't getting fixed in the future.
With Linux, you don't run into this issue. It's open source. With Valve, they can build a custom OS with all of the specific OpenGL support they need with the graphics cards they utilize.
Newell has gone on the record in the past that there should be a PC industry "standard" for video games. If they build and optimize hardware and software for both consumers and developers, publishers might be already willing to jump on board. Most of the AAA publishers build versions of their game for multiple platforms. If it takes a month for Planetside 2 to convert from PC architecture to the PS4, I see a similar time frame to take your Windows/DirectX code to Linux/OpenGL.
#98
DVD Talk Special Edition
#99
DVD Talk Legend
re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
Again, stranger things have happened.
Last edited by Matthew Chmiel; 09-21-13 at 04:43 PM.



