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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by michael corvin
(Post 10346422)
:hscratch: hasn't it been $50 a year since it launched 8 years ago?
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
You know what's great about MS softening the blow by offering a year for $40? They're basically subsidizing the next two years for people. Oh, they'll buy the $40 one now, but when then go to spend $60 next year, they'll forget all about how it would have cost the same at $50/year for two years.
Really, Microsoft would have been better off charging $100 for those same two years up front. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by superfro
(Post 10346426)
OH YEAH that's right. ;)
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by UncleGramps
(Post 10346440)
The point is not that they should stick to the $50 price point forever. The point is that they should clearly communicate the thinking and reasoning behind the change. They did a terrible job explaining why the price is changing now. Without such an explanation, it just feels like they are bumping up the price because they feel that they can get away with it.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
I just posted this on another forum and I think it bears repeating here:
I'm gonna have to go ahead and call this statement out. The fact is it costs a lot of money to house server farms. From the 24/7 99.99999% uptime, full support staff, utilities, facilities, data-warehousing, etc, etc. Also, every week more and more games come out. More and more people buy Xboxes. And more and more people join XBL. Every new person and new game adds to the load. Increased load means increased demand on those servers. How do you alleviate load? Scaling. You have to expand those server farms. You have to continually improve the back-end to keep the users from noticing the extra impact. It's an amazing technical feat and the cost is totally justified, they're just not coming out and saying all of this because, really, people don't understand what they're paying for nor would they think it's necessary because "It works fine right now, you don't need more!" Well, yes, they do. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346204)
It doesn't even take 10 minutes for me to make this much money from my job.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346470)
I just posted this on another forum and I think it bears repeating here:
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346470)
I just posted this on another forum and I think it bears repeating here:
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by superfro
(Post 10346453)
Why so people could go "FUCK ESPN! I WON'T USE IT!"? See previous posts. No matter what they pointed to as the reasoning people would just focus their ire on that particular thing. I actually love that they didn't say why or try to explain it off as part of other services. It's left everybody just bitching about it in general and saying retarded shit like "I'm canceling!" or "PS3 here I come!" all of which will never happen from the majority of folks. But they have nothing to react to other than generalities of the Xbox Live service and Microsoft.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
(Post 10346477)
Um, aren't most (if not all) online Xbox 360 games P2P?
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by Liver&Onions
(Post 10346475)
You're cheating on us too?
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by UncleGramps
(Post 10346480)
If they can't justify the price increase, then they deserve to have everybody bitching at them. They don't have to point to one specific thing - just feed us some B.S. about the cost of maintenance going up, or "new features and services" coming soon. But the Major Nelson announcement has nothing. If you don't see that as bad business, I don't know what to tell you.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346487)
Probably. Does that mean they're completely independent of the infrastructure? Um, no.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346470)
I just posted this on another forum and I think it bears repeating here:
a) Actual game servers aren't hosted by MS. Most of the bandwidth and processing is offloaded to users and users' Xbox 360s. b) Server farms get cheaper (per user) as more people join. The cost per user is going down, not up. The new users coming on are paying their yearly fee too; it isn't like they're coming on for free. c) Computing power continues to go up and up. MS gets more server bang for their buck now than they did when the service started. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by superfro
(Post 10346493)
I understand what you're saying, I just personally feel it wouldn't have changed the response or matter at hand.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
(Post 10346496)
But it would mean that the blunt of what most people actually pay for (playing online) is handled by their own connections, not MS's servers.
I don't know how matchmaking or TrueSkill or social play are implemented. I don't know where the server ends and the host(s) begin. I don't know where Microsoft's servers end and the developers' begin. I don't know. Do you? Does anyone? My point is, strictly technically speaking, there's a lot of shit going on behind the scenes and for some dude to say it's completely unjustified is not thinking of what it takes to make a service like that run. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by Jeremy517
(Post 10346501)
That is pretty wrong considering that
a) Actual game servers aren't hosted by MS. Most of the bandwidth and processing is offloaded to users and users' Xbox 360s. b) Server farms get cheaper (per user) as more people join. The cost per user is going down, not up. The new users coming on are paying their yearly fee too; it isn't like they're coming on for free. c) Computing power continues to go up and up. MS gets more server bang for their buck now than they did when the service started. There's one dude with his feet up at a desk watching a dashboard and pushing a button every 108 minutes to keep it all working smoothly? |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Oh and I forgot....
d) The game companies are footing some/most(?) of the bill for game-specific server functions that aren't done on 360s. This is why, for example, EA has shut down servers for dozens of games. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346528)
So, you're assuming these servers have infinite processing power and bandwidth? They don't fail? Don't antiquate? Aren't replaced or updated?
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
But those games have content that housed and provided by Microsoft.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346536)
But those games have content that housed and provided by Microsoft.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
And all I'm saying is that over the last 7 or 8 years, the sheer amount of stuff they do directly support has increased significantly. If they want 2.74 cents more a day from me, well, I think I can scrounge that up.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346514)
I don't know. Do you? Does anyone? My point is, strictly technically speaking, there's a lot of shit going on behind the scenes and for some dude to say it's completely unjustified is not thinking of what it takes to make a service like that run.
I do know everybody else offers this service for free. Clearly there's a disconnect in what Microsoft is offering for $60 a month. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
(Post 10346557)
I do know that the majority of bandwidth for P2P gaming is handled, well, peer to peer.
I do know everybody else offers this service for free. Clearly there's a disconnect in what Microsoft is offering for $60 a year. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
I don't mind the increase. I'm also covered until 2013 and would probably buy more cards if they are around $30.
I also think that PSN+ somehow helped Microsoft for this increase. PSN+, ESPN, etc. And please, Xbox Live is not a web service where most of the points apply about reducing costs over time. This is a custom system that has been heavily modified over time. If you have worked in any IT project you know how hard is to deploy new versions in a live application and all the costs included in that. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by orangecrush
(Post 10346580)
fixed.
Anyway, I look at it this way, if you find value in paying for Live, that's great. Lots of people do! If you play online very often, even if you ignore the fact that it's free everywhere else, the cost is probably not a huge deal. A $10 a year increase might not change that for a lot of those people. The problem is that their DIRECT console competition, in PSN, has mostly caught up.. and it's still free.. and you can be damned sure that Sony is going to keep adding to their service. If Sony hadn't launched their console and their online system on such a spectacular misfire, I'd be willing to bet that Live Gold would be far more desolate. In terms of keeping people paying $50 a year for online gaming, Microsoft got lucky that Sony cratered themselves at launch. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
So we are not going in circles here, what are we discussing?
- Microsoft hasn't increased the price of Xbox Live in 5 years. i.e. during the Xbox 360 lifetime. - Every year they have added new features, some more useful than others for different people. - There are still features that haven't been 100% matched by PSN - They have spent a good amount of money in infrastructure all these years. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
(Post 10346600)
Buh, oops. :o
and you can be damned sure that Sony is going to keep adding to their service. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
I really don't use XBox Live for Online gaming. I use it for Netflix Instant Watch, Downloading new rosters, updates to my sports games and occassionally dowloading videos off Zune. Even for $60 a year, I still think that's worth it. Don't really care about the new ESPN feature, hell if I want to watch it, I just have to switch on my Directv and it's on 24/7. I'm only paid until 2011 (through the $34.99 card that this thread helped me find), so if there are more deals out there for the cards, then great. If not, I'll suck it up and pay the $60.
Although I'll be sure to ask here 1st about any deals. ;) |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by Liver&Onions
(Post 10346609)
You forgot to include the Premium mention in this part. I doubt there'll be (m)any improvements to the free portion.
But what most people claim to pay for with Xbox Live Gold (the ability to play games online) is still free there. Nobody has Xbox Live Gold to get the Xbox 360 version of Netflix, FaceBook and Twitter. With PSN/PSN+, you have the OPTION to pay for their premium service, which actually adds something that could be considered a premium, not just a slew of things that are free everywhere else. If you wanted to jump on the PS3 once every two months to just play a game online, you're not burdened with a yearly fee (or $10 to pay just for the one month). |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
:lol: djaria begs to differ.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by Liver&Onions
(Post 10346630)
:lol: djaria begs to differ.
DJariya, you do know of those features, the only one your $60 a year fee covers is Netflix, right? Everything else is free for Silver members. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
(Post 10346641)
Son of a bitch!
DJariya, you do know of those features, the only one your $60 a year fee covers is Netflix, right? Everything else is free for Silver members. Edit: I also use Last.fm which is also part of Gold. I like to have some music on as background noise while on the computer. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by DJariya
(Post 10346658)
Yeah I know....I never said I don't use the online gaming at all. I know that's the main point of having Gold in the 1st place. I do once in a while. But, I absolutely use the Netflix feature and IMO it's worth it just to have that ability with my XBox.
Edit: I also use Last.fm which is also part of Gold. I like to have some music on as background noise while on the computer. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
:shrug:
I like the interface on the Xbox with the floating pictures, especially my favorite female artists. I know most of you guys exclusively use it for online gaming and that's cool. |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by Raul3
(Post 10346602)
So we are not going in circles here, what are we discussing?
- Microsoft hasn't increased the price of Xbox Live in 5 years. i.e. during the Xbox 360 lifetime. - Every year they have added new features, some more useful than others for different people. - There are still features that haven't been 100% matched by PSN - They have spent a good amount of money in infrastructure all these years. :up: I'm good thru 2012 |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346204)
It doesn't even take 10 minutes for me to make this much money from my job.
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by Jeremy517
(Post 10346501)
That is pretty wrong considering that
a) Actual game servers aren't hosted by MS. Most of the bandwidth and processing is offloaded to users and users' Xbox 360s. b) Server farms get cheaper (per user) as more people join. The cost per user is going down, not up. The new users coming on are paying their yearly fee too; it isn't like they're coming on for free. c) Computing power continues to go up and up. MS gets more server bang for their buck now than they did when the service started. And for C, while computing power goes up, upgrade costs can be considerable if you're replacing 5 year old hardware with the latest and greatest, not to mention all the man hours required in doing such a migration. EDIT: Not that i'm in agreement for the price increase, I think it should have been a decrease :down: |
re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 10346770)
Well sure, you usually do. But doesn't it take longer than that if the guy wants to cuddle afterwards?
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re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 10346793)
If I let that happen, you better believe I would charge enough to pay for everyone's account here!
#piñataowesmeLive
Originally Posted by Liver&Onions
(Post 10346609)
You forgot to include the Premium mention in this part. I doubt there'll be (m)any improvements to the free portion.
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