What's next blocking the sale of used furniture, used cars? Almost every commodity, save for food, is sold used, and there would be economic collapse it they weren't. Why do game developers think they're so above this when almost every industry has to deal with a used market.

Also consider this; if it wasn't for the used market, you would get new games dropping in price nearly as quick, if at all.

Which is funny, given that the used game market for PC gaming has been mostly eliminated. Yeah, that'll show em!

it's one thing to say it over the internet but when it comes to actually boycotting when ES VI, GTA VI, or FFXIV come out will they stick to their promise?

I've no problem w/ used games being eliminated... just make them worth $60 and give us all the dlc up front or for free as they become available. I'll wait for a price drop to $40 or $20 for most games if used games are designed out.

That's the thing, if they don't have their used copies to compete with, price dorps for new games won't be as forthcoming as they are now.

I don't think that would be true, publishers drop game prices anyway as game sales start to dip or to try and drum up interest. Not saying that used games don't affect pricing on new games, but it's also not a direct correlation. Again, PC-only games still see regular price drops, and not necessarily just via Steam.

The point is that both Sony and MS are probably hearing from publishers and devs on this subject and no doubt most are in favor of some used game ban, block or limitations being enacted. There's alot of money at stake and in many cases it can mean a studio staying open or closing which we've seen over the last couple of years. Developing games nowdays compared to 10 years ago means more people involved, more man hours and better euipment and software to do it. People might be surprised at just what the cost can be for some games. Selling a extra few hundred thousand games could make or break a studio.


Sure....some will say no big deal on the used games but Gamer A is not the same as Gamer B and so-on. Some might play 4-5 games a year and some might use Gamefly for 3-4 a month. Some might be able to afford countless new games all year and others might have to search the used bins only. Some might have a 30meg cable connection and some no internet at all.


If used games are blocked no doubt consumers will be choosy as to what they buy knowing there are no $15-$25 credits towards new game. For some that's a lot especially playing 10-15 games a year. It would effect buyers decisions when a new month of releases come around. Sure some games will still attract their fan-base but to what extent? Sure the die-hard MP of COD will but what about the occasional gamer who just likes SP only?

Just to put it into perspective, Gamestop total global sales in 2011 was $9.55 Billion. In Jan 2009, the Wall Street Journal sid that nearly 42% of the company's profit comes from used game sales. You can only imagine hat the amount is today and that's what publishers and Devs are seeing...their money. But if Gamestop only were to sell new they wouldn't be in business long or lose a considerable amount of the game retail market. The PS3 and Xbox 360 stuff would sell for awhile but for how long?

Plus Game Stop employees would no longer to play your game before you then put it into a paper sleeve and sell it to you as "new".

No used or rented games will change my buying habit. I also won't preorder, I'll wait for reviews and pick up the game a few days later instead of taking a chance. If I have to pay 60 bucks for each game I play I say I will buy about 3 a year. If the pricing structure changes to around 40 bucks a game because of this I might buy another 2. I average well over 5 a year now, some bought new, some used, and some rented.
I think new IPOs will be hurt by this because nobody will take a chance on them. I picked up Borderlands used and found out I loved it. Then what? I preordered 2 cause I knew I would at least like it.

The next-generation Xbox—the one that will follow the still-popular Xbox 360—will run multiple games at once, require game installations, and will only work when a much-improved version of the popular but divisive Kinect sensor array is plugged in, according to a source who says he has access to development hardware.

http://kotaku.com/5982986/we-know-al...theyve-got-one

These xbox/ps4 rumors are depressing. If even some of this stuff if true, I'll be more than happy sticking with just the Wii U.

I've been with Xbox Live over 11 years now and will give the Nex Gen console a hard look one-way-or-another...used games or not. Same with the PS4. But I'm just concerned about the used game block after reading so many articles and seeing the majority of game makers for the ban.

So now I'm at the point of even entertaining PC Gaming again and enter Valve's "Piston". The more I've read about this little majic box the more I've been intrigued. Just curious what others might think about it?





http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/...lves-steam-box

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/395...steam-box-cake

We have a thread about a Steam console here - http://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-...g-console.html

Damn. Even if the used games thing turns out to be hot air, this may be a killer for me. My setup is such that the kinect can only see me from the shoulders up from my normal sitting position. If they make it so the kinect HAS to be able to track you to play regular games, that's likely another deal killer for me.

I imagine that's where the "much-improved" part will come into play. At least I hope so.

I have a projector setup with the components in the back of the room. First, standing in front of the projector for Kinect is no good. Second I'm not running a cable for the damn thing just to meet the required connection to run.

My setup has a ceiling mount projector and the components are in the front of the room, so I can (and do) have a Kinect in the room, mounted under my screen. There's literally about a 2'x2' spot I have to stand in for me to not have my shadow on the screen and for the sensor to work. It's fine for when I want to pop in a dedicated Kinect games, but the sensor won't pick me up at all from where I sit to play regular games.

I'm starting to get deja vu from the start of the current generation, when I was gung ho for a PS3 and not at all interested in the 360. Then Sony had their craptastic E3 reveal, so I went out and bought a 360 and held off 3 years on a PS3. Only this time, I'd be switching to the WiiU and likely not picking up Microsoft's or Sony's consoles at all. Really hoping a lot of these rumors turn out to be false over the coming months.

I'm also ceiling mounted and have no problem with the Kinect. I'm curious to see how that Piston thing turns out, it looks like a Ouya with real specs.

Don't used game retailers have to pay a percentage of their used sales back to say MS or SONY in order to be able to resell them at all?

I thought as a legit volume retailer you needed to have an agreement to sell a vendor's products to begin with?

I don't believe so.

Gamestop is nothing more than a glorified pawn shop.

I don't think so at all. It's like anybody else who sells used items, they just do more of it and have their own stores. Heck, if i had the capital I could open up a store tomorrow and not have to worry about Microsoft or Sony asking for money.

No, used video game sales are protected under a principle known as "right of first sale," which means that basically, after the initial purchase, that item can be bought and sold at will, no further licensing necessary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Books, music, and video have relied on this forever. Hence used book stores, used CD stores, and used video stores. And in all those media, there have been content creators that have complained about not getting any money from the used sales.

Seems like a simple legal solution. If Gamestop is the major offender here and they want to continue to sell and resell games then they should be forced to pay back a percentage so companies can benefit in some way.

Let's think out loud here for a moment....

Its either that or come up with some sort of digital token system going forward with used tokens offered at a lower cost. Tokens can be bought by retailers and packed into used games, or bought online by the user.

New games would come with the token packed in.
Game is verified as new.
Type it in and go.
Token and game are tied to you or your system or some account.

Used games have different tokens.
Game is verifed as having its token redeemed by another user.
User is prompted to DL and pay for a new token.
Token is applied and gaming continues.

Could also have timed tokens.
Say your friend want to borrow your game for a few days?
Friend puts game in.
Verified as used.
Want to purchase a full token or an 8 hour token?
After 8 hrs of gameplay token expires.
Return game to friend.

They can't be forced legally to pay percentage, see the First Sale Doctrine I mention above.

Publishers could try and force a percentage of used sales in exchange for being able to sell new copies, but no single publisher is going to lock out Gamestop while it still carries other publishers, and publishers can't can't collude together to force Gamestop, as that would be anti-trust. In any case, they would only effectively stop one retailer, while others would still be free to sell used copies without paying a royalty, thus making them more competitive. So Gamestop would go under, but the used game market would be left unaffected as competitors moved in to fill the void.

This is basically what the idea of game activation is all about. Publisher have already dabbled with this with exclusive DLC codes in new packaging, especially for online game play on some of the EA Sports games. Gamestop responded by having the online pass available for sale in the store, for use with used copies.

The biggest problem with activation codes, or "tokens" as you call them, is that the console would have to be online to activate them. This isn't a problem for many, who likely have their Xbox always online, but it's a problem for some. It also reduces the value of used games, since a separate activation code purchase is now required. This in turn can affect how people purchase new games, since many buy full price for a new game with the expectation that they can recoup some of their costs when selling the game later.