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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11569206)
Um thanks. I'll repeat what I've said many times here : I think this is a shitty business model. If Zen can somehow work completely under the radar and produce ten, TEN Star Wars tables without anyone even knowing about it, I'm pretty sure Far Sight could have made a Twilight Zone emulation without a Kickstarter project behind it. Their bullshit excuse, that "We don't want to pass on these licensing costs to the consumer because it wouldn't make the tables commercially viable" doesn't hold water when they charge double for the table anyway. If they hadn't completely bungled the launch of the table -- I literally had to search for it in the PSN store; if they had made a big deal out of the launch of this impressive table the way Zen would have, I'm sure they would have made their money back just fine. Ditto for TNG table which will be released next month, again I assume, with little to no fanfare.
[/rant] I don't think there's a remote chance in hell that licensing Star Wars property and licensing ancient tech and countless likeness rights are in any way similar. To follow that logic... a tiny company like Zen was able to license Star Wars but MGM can't renegotiate simple music rights on countless DVD releases? Come on! Rights are not the same across the board. Companies aren't all on equal financial footing from the start. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Okay, I get that. It's not the same thing, and licensing can be pricy.
I wouldn't call them "liars" exactly, but I think it's a little disingenuous to put out a Kickstarter video <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LruHUjxaXG8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> where he says that it wouldn't be commercially viable to pass those licensing fees onto the consumer, then once they raise enough Kickstarter money to cover all the licensing fees, still charge (essentially) twice as much as any of their other tables. I don't mind paying $5 for the table at all, but something about that does strike me as fishy. I don't support the process of using Kickstarter to launch their tables (and didn't really care enough about either of the tables to be upset if they never got made), so I didn't contribute. I do mostly enjoy the final results that Far Sight puts out so I buy every DLC pack when it comes out on PSN without waiting for a sale or even doing the demo most of the time. I support their preserving the tables and show my support by buying every one. That's the sort of publisher/consumer relationship I can get behind. Anyway, I guess I'm looking at things through the prism of a small business owner. We take financial risks with every undertaking; there's no guaranty of profit but if we feel there's a good potential of success we roll the dice and plunge on in. I personally don't like the Kickstarter model because it basically eliminates risk for the company and doesn't incentive them to make an outstanding product since they're already in the profit before the table is even available. Having said that, the table (at least on the PS3) is outstanding and I'm very happy with the outcome. So thank you to the Kickstarters who made this table available. It's superb. I hope the table is a huge DLC success and that Far Sight will see the success as a new business opportunity to bring over more licensed tables without having to organize a fund raiser for every one. We shall see. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
There's something to be said about doing whatever you can to get a big time "get" as soon as possible. Them going after those tables, which are near the top of whatever the pinball ranking list is, are huge. Not to mention tapping into the massive ST fanbase. Truth be told, I and others tried desperately to get it noticed by that community as a whole to get ST:TNG funded alongside TTZ table. Mostly selfishly as it would have double the value of my original pledge. But that's water under the bridge.
I wonder if they found out about Zen's deal with Lucas through the grapevine or even directly by going to Lucas for licensing of real world tables and decided they needed to act quick to pre-empt that launch with their own competitors? Where better to go than ST? |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
I'm curious whether there will be more premium tables after Star Trek, that may not have a kickstarter but get the premium $5 pricing for the table just based on the complexity of the tables. I've felt like I've been paying $5 per table all along since all the packs have had a repeat from the Williams collection. The next two non Star Trek releases have their repeat tables from the Gottlieb collection which I have way less time on.
Play a little on Twilight Zone, it's probably been about 15 years since I played the real thing. I still hate those bumpers on the left, the ball goes down the left outlane from in there so much, just like the real thing. I can't think of another table that punished you that badly for hitting a successful skillshot. The left outlane is just pure evil. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by pinata242
(Post 11569493)
There's something to be said about doing whatever you can to get a big time "get" as soon as possible. Them going after those tables, which are near the top of whatever the pinball ranking list is, are huge. Not to mention tapping into the massive ST fanbase. Truth be told, I and others tried desperately to get it noticed by that community as a whole to get ST:TNG funded alongside TTZ table. Mostly selfishly as it would have double the value of my original pledge. But that's water under the bridge.
I wonder if they found out about Zen's deal with Lucas through the grapevine or even directly by going to Lucas for licensing of real world tables and decided they needed to act quick to pre-empt that launch with their own competitors? Where better to go than ST? |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by Jcheckel
(Post 11569528)
I'm curious whether there will be more premium tables after Star Trek, that may not have a kickstarter but get the premium $5 pricing for the table just based on the complexity of the tables. I've felt like I've been paying $5 per table all along since all the packs have had a repeat from the Williams collection. The next two non Star Trek releases have their repeat tables from the Gottlieb collection which I have way less time on.
Play a little on Twilight Zone, it's probably been about 15 years since I played the real thing. I still hate those bumpers on the left, the ball goes down the left outlane from in there so much, just like the real thing. I can't think of another table that punished you that badly for hitting a successful skillshot. The left outlane is just pure evil. They've said that because of the licensing fees they would of had to charge $10 a table if it wasn't for Kickstarting them. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
They may have said that but I have a hard time believing that either Terminator or Addams Family would cost four times as much to license as all the Universal Monsters on the Monster Bash table. It might in fact be true, but I sort of doubt it. It's just too an easy excuse to go back to the well for more fundraising.
Besides, I think I read that they couldn't have the T2 table on Pinball Arcade because it wouldn't be rated E and that's what the main game is rated. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11569698)
They may have said that but I have a hard time believing that either Terminator or Addams Family would cost four times as much to license as all the Universal Monsters on the Monster Bash table. It might in fact be true, but I sort of doubt it. It's just too an easy excuse to go back to the well for more fundraising.
Besides, I think I read that they couldn't have the T2 table on Pinball Arcade because it wouldn't be rated E and that's what the main game is rated. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Perhaps just the cyborg skulls and pistol launcher are enough to warrant an https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...44F3-1MOKruSqA rating?
It was a while ago and I don't remember where I read it. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
I dunno, they said in some podcast interview a month or two ago (check a few pages back, I posted cliffnotes), that they will be doing T2 next. It sounded definite. I don't see how a shotgun launcher is any worse than the gun launcher in STTNG.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
I haven't been following this at all, but I did participate in the Far Sight Kickstarter thing. Did they ever deliver the 360 table or is that still in limbo?
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Limbo.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by UncleGramps
(Post 11569806)
I haven't been following this at all, but I did participate in the Far Sight Kickstarter thing. Did they ever deliver the 360 table or is that still in limbo?
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Got my TZ code about 24 hours after the release, so I am very happy now. Table plays just like the real thing, and for all the times i've played it, I never noticed that there is a skill shot! The custom balls are a neat bonus, but i don't think i'd pay extra for them if i hadn't been all about funding this. The same goes for the Pro mode, it's neat to mess around with, but really doesn't do much for me. Speaking of funding this, where can I view the backers list that I'm supposed to be on?
As for the lack of promotion on the PS Store, I never really noticed this as the game itself prompts for an update and shows newly available tables within the game menu. I guess advertising this on store would bring in new customers, but for folks already with the game, you can easily see what you haven't yet purchased. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
I wish the Xbox 360 would get on fucking board with this game, dammit.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by neilo13
(Post 11570336)
Got my TZ code about 24 hours after the release, so I am very happy now. Table plays just like the real thing, and for all the times i've played it, I never noticed that there is a skill shot! The custom balls are a neat bonus, but i don't think i'd pay extra for them if i hadn't been all about funding this. The same goes for the Pro mode, it's neat to mess around with, but really doesn't do much for me. Speaking of funding this, where can I view the backers list that I'm supposed to be on?
As for the lack of promotion on the PS Store, I never really noticed this as the game itself prompts for an update and shows newly available tables within the game menu. I guess advertising this on store would bring in new customers, but for folks already with the game, you can easily see what you haven't yet purchased. A couple of questions about the table : I don't really see that much that is actually based on the TV show plots or anything. It seems to be more based on the opening credits. Am I wrong there? Do they reference famous episode storylines? It has been decades since I saw the show. Also I'm a little curious why were the licensing fees so high for this game. I get Star Trek TNG, but here you've only got 1) Twilight Zone series, 2) Twilight Zone theme, 3) Rod Sterling likeness and audio clip, 4) Rockwell Song. I would think that's it (besides the table license that they already had). Sure that's a few, but needing $110K? It just seems to me it would have been harder and more expensive to license Monster Bash than that. Did they give you Kickstarter a breakdown of the licensing fees? |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
When you say $110K, you're intentionally adding the cost for TZ and ST:TNG, even though you're actively only talking about TZ? You know that's misleading, right?
On top of that, they did honor their commitment to use the overage of TZ's initial $55,000 goal to lower the initial ST:TNG goal to only $45,000 additional. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Not intentional. I had remembered the $110K figure and thought that was the goal. If it were half that cost, it makes more sense. I should have checked the Kickstarter page. I stand corrected. Sorry.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Oh, ok. Sorry, I thought you were playing games :) Yeah, it was 55k for each, but the 2nd was lowered because the 1st went a little over.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Decker don't play that homey!
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Damn straight.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by UncleGramps
(Post 11569806)
I haven't been following this at all, but I did participate in the Far Sight Kickstarter thing. Did they ever deliver the 360 table or is that still in limbo?
Next week, we plan to be post the latest news for 360 players. We understand your frustration. Unfortunately, the complicated process of transferring the publishing rights when a bankruptcy is involved prevents us from announcing locked in Table Pack release dates at this time. We will update you with the latest information that we have. The Dr. Dude and Firepower screenshots just posted are from the 360 version. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Dr. Dude, such an odd, random choice.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
And more than a bit dated. That's still four or more releases away on PS3 though. God knows how many on the 360.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11572877)
And more than a bit dated. That's still four or more releases away on PS3 though. God knows how many on the 360.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Not dated in the sense that it's an old pinball table, but rather dated in the sense that the table spoofs Wayne & Garth, Bill & Ted sort of dynamics and that is something that has fallen way far out of favor. Their dialog is super-annoying, at least based on the clips they've shown. It's different than Tales of Arabian Nights or Bride of Pinbot. I just thought it was a weird choice.
Here's the trailer: <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wDnoUGE2oWY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Also just noticed that Pinball Arcade is trying to get on Steam via Greenlight. I have no idea why it isn't already on Steam; it's a finished, high-quality product that's already a well-known quantity on numerous platforms. It almost seems beneath them to be competing with amateur indie games and the like. Anyway, I voted for it even though I'm unlikely to re-buy everything on another platform. I also saw that the Pro Pinball game that didn't get Kickstarted was also there. Don't know where they are in development, but it's certainly not at the same level as Pinball Arcade. I don't know how that would work; I though games had to be finished before they get Greenlighted.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11573182)
Also just noticed that Pinball Arcade is trying to get on Steam via Greenlight. I have no idea why it isn't already on Steam; it's a finished, high-quality product that's already a well-known quantity on numerous platforms. It almost seems beneath them to be competing with amateur indie games and the like. Anyway, I voted for it even though I'm unlikely to re-buy everything on another platform. I also saw that the Pro Pinball game that didn't get Kickstarted was also there. Don't know where they are in development, but it's certainly not at the same level as Pinball Arcade. I don't know how that would work; I though games had to be finished before they get Greenlighted.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
That's mind-boggling. They don't think TPA, which has sold very well on iOS, won't sell at least as well as some of the dreck they bundle into Indie bundles on a routine basis? That's so counter-intuitive.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11569698)
They may have said that but I have a hard time believing that either Terminator or Addams Family would cost four times as much to license as all the Universal Monsters on the Monster Bash table. It might in fact be true, but I sort of doubt it. It's just too an easy excuse to go back to the well for more fundraising.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Bought table pack 7 tonight. Tried it just for a few minutes. Elvira Scared Stiff is a cool table. Lots of stuff to do. Ranked #14 on the Internet Pinball Database. I'm going to enjoy it a lot more than the last Elvira table which I wasn't into at all. The other table is old. Big Shot is very simple, but it's a nice change of pace to have an EM table in the collection. Won't play it much, but it's cool to have at least one from the "Old Days".
My patient with the table collection invited me to his house to check his collection out. Really excited to play a real TZ table. Apparently his pride & joy is a Big Bang Bar table that is very rare. It was initially a prototype made by Capcom before they abandoned the idea after making 14 of them. In 2006 Gene Cunningham made a run of 181 tables. So I guess it's super-rare. Looking forward to trying it out. He's also having me over for the unveiling of Wizard of Oz table next month. That table looks amazing. I read a great article about it and the future of pinball in Slate. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
I grabbed the new pack too and ended up playing quite a bit of Big Shot. The last few weeks I've been playing quite a bit of PA on the PS3 and its gotten a lot better with the lighting effects since it first came out.
Just got done playing Scared Stiff a few times. I like it a lot, but it's definitely the easiest table on PA. So many free balls, the one from points is only at 6 million, and hitting the right ramp I think it's 8 times lights the extra ball. That's 8 times on the game, not in a row or even on one ball. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by brianluvdvd
(Post 11570372)
I wish the Xbox 360 would get on fucking board with this game, dammit.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by brianluvdvd
(Post 11577166)
I'll quote myself again for any Microsoft assholes who happen to be reading this thread. Fuckers.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11576960)
Bought table pack 7 tonight. Tried it just for a few minutes. Elvira Scared Stiff is a cool table. Lots of stuff to do. Ranked #14 on the Internet Pinball Database. I'm going to enjoy it a lot more than the last Elvira table which I wasn't into at all. The other table is old. Big Shot is very simple, but it's a nice change of pace to have an EM table in the collection. Won't play it much, but it's cool to have at least one from the "Old Days".
My patient with the table collection invited me to his house to check his collection out. Really excited to play a real TZ table. Apparently his pride & joy is a Big Bang Bar table that is very rare. It was initially a prototype made by Capcom before they abandoned the idea after making 14 of them. In 2006 Gene Cunningham made a run of 181 tables. So I guess it's super-rare. Looking forward to trying it out. He's also having me over for the unveiling of Wizard of Oz table next month. That table looks amazing. I read a great article about it and the future of pinball in Slate. |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
Honestly, I don't know if he has an original or a reproduction. I'll let you know. I might stop over this afternoon. $50K. Wow,
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rOajo2uBvbE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
I was hoping for fewer "sound-alike" audio clips, but they aren't bad. Probably less noticeable in the heat of a game with all the other noises anyway.
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Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
They blow the pants off the Avengers' sound-alikes.
Here's a hands-on preview of the Star Wars table pack : link |
Re: The Ultimate Battle Free Pinball Thread
So, all those pin's at Valve... say goodbye. Apparently they are all owned by Jeri Ellsworth and she was just fired/laid off this week:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BC8-zQHCcAA3oUy.jpg:large Further proof that Valve hates pinball! |
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