I do think that many developers are stupid when it comes to business decisions. I wouldn't cite Blizzard or Square Enix as examples though. Many developers would do much better to follow Pop Caps example and make inexpensive to develop games and put them on every system you can. Too many developers fail because they spend tens of millions developing 1 or 2 games that don't do well. They could reduce their risk much more by developing 10-20 less advanced games.

There really hasn't been more love given to the other franchises so I don't see how Starcraft has been snubbed, given that the release order has been Warcraft 2, Diablo, Starcraft, Diablo 2, Warcraft III, and now WoW. Warcraft has really been the only thing that had 2 games in a row, and Starcraft 2 is next and from mostly the same development team that had finished War3. And other then WoW, all the games have just had a single expansion pack, which is on par for Starcraft and no reason to create another one just for the sake of it.

Blizzard didn't bet the farm on World of Warcraft. The goal was maybe 750k to 1 million subscribers which would be higher then Everquest; certainly lucky that it boomed the way it did, but even at worst it would be on par with the other top MMO's at the time which would have been just fine.

Working in the game industry, my perception on these things have changed quite a bit

OK, explain to me what I am missing then....the guy didn't quote anyone else, and without knowing to whom his reply is intended, his comment makes no sense otherwise...

There's a lot of gameplay improvements and tweaks to be made, plus continued improvements in graphics, animations, etc.

I think only non-sports fans are the ones that say each new year is just roster updates. There's quite a lot of changes that improve gameplay.


Eh? Neversoft knew the market and succeeded. Maybe not in the eyes of the hardcore Rock Band fans on the internet, but sales seem to indicate that they were right on track for the average gamer.

I think between Madden and NCAA each year, gamers are well-covered when it comes to football (although yes, some competition would be nice). I don't think there would be many people who would want more than those two each year.

I don't think it compares to racing, because there are different types of that genre. They only have one NASCAR game, for instance, and that appeals to a different group than Burnout or Need for Speed. Besides, Burnout was a series that they picked up rather than did themselves. EA is just the publisher for Criterion Games.

BTW, they used to have past teams in Madden. Granted, they didn't have the player names due to the license, but they were there. This seems like the sort of thing that would be better as DLC for Madden than a separate game.

There's a sentence that needs to be written every time somebody utters the tired, and inaccurate, cliche that every sports game is just a roster update.

You wouldn't see sports game series rise and fall unless their developers implement good/bad new features and AI changes.

But that's just it, the changes aren't good if the gameplay is sub-par. I know I, as well as others, compare Madden to 2K5 all the time. 2K's gameplay was perfect. Everything from the play layout, to pre-snap movement, to button configuration was perfect. It's a shame that a 5 year old original XBox game is way ahead of Madden 2010. If Madden played like 2K, I'd wait in line to buy it every year...and I'm a huge sports fan (except basketball).

I'm a huge sports fan also. I think NBA 2K5 has done a great job of improving over the years, and although I'm not as big a hockey or baseball fan, apparently NHL 20XX and MLB also do great things in their genre. Madden and NCAA continue to disappoint me, however. I realize that they aren't just sitting on their hands and doing roster upgrades, but I really wish they would just get the presentation and the little things right. Still they are miles ahead of the really poor implementations they brought out when this gen started up.

What I meant when I said that not every series can be like a sports franchise is that for sports games, the rules are generally set. You won't see a ton of innovation year after year, and they put out a game a year. They cannot miss their launch date because they are heavily tied to the real sports season. There are differences from year to year, but they are usually incremental differences and or graphical upgrades. There are very few other videogame franchises that can operate like that (there are a few: pokemon, castlevania, etc). And yet this is the model that jeffbase wants to put on all games...

And I'm not sure how that actually responds to my point (sports games actually change every year; if you say they're just roster updates, you must not be playing sports games).

There's a reason you compare Madden to 2k5, and not 2k4, 2k3, or any earlier ones. They were vastly different. NFL 2k3, for example, is still infamous for requiring absolutely perfect pass release/route timing due to its gameplay choice of any quick contact from a defender (unless your receiver had a rating of 99 in hands, or whatever it was called) knocking the ball loose for an incompletion.

It was a different game from anything else in the series, but you wouldn't know that if you were a non-sports gamer who just looks at screenshots.

I know they aren't just updating the rosters, they just aren't fixing the right problems. they need to start at square one again, make a good game, then make some subtle upgrades every year. I compare it to 2K5 because in my opinion, that is the best fb game to date...actually, I'd say Dreamcast's 2K & 2K1 were better than any Madden game. Madden just seems to try to cram so much shit into a game that half of it simply doesn't work. Look at Tiger Woods. They have a great game, and every year not only do they add new courses, they implement new features, like putting this year.

I think Madden's been improving for the last 3 years and moving in the right direction

At this point, I'm about to just end with a . Whether they fix the right problems or not still means changes have been made within a series, which continues to be my only point.

Those who say, 'I'm not a sports gamer', then follow it up with, 'Each year's sports games are just $60 roster updates', are offering up some of the worst gaming analysis out there.

It's under-the-hood AI that makes all the difference from one year to the next. Changes in whether defensemen hold the blue line, the offensive line forms a decent pocket, or computer batters swing at realistic rates at pitches outside the strike zone can make all the difference in the world between an outstanding game and a subpar frustration. And developers have proven it's possible to go in either direction annually.




By the way, since you keep bringing up Madden and NFL 2k5, here's a blog that you might find interesting. The author writes that "Madden is easily the most overrated franchise in gaming history", but details the changes under the hood he's seen this year. http://www.dubiousquality.blogspot.com/

Oh look, it's the "has sony officially lost this generation" troll. You're not very good at these kinds of things