WMAangel

Seriously, I always see "price" being discussed as a positive factor for 360 and a negative to PS3, and I just don't understand why everyone thinks the PS3 is so overpriced in comparison...
Yes, the starting point between the two consoles is double ($200), but that gets you no hard drive, which is very limiting to the capabilities of the system, and then if you do buy the hard drive later you have to buy their proprietary-sized drive that is incredibly overpriced....at least with the PS3 you can choose to get exactly whatever size drive to upgrade to later, and the cost per GB will be much less....
So let's say you go with the "Pro" model instead for $299, $100 less than a PS3...well, you still need to buy a $75 wifi adapter, plus the Xbox Live fee to play games online, which is around $50 for a year or so...now you've just spent more in total than the $399 PS3, AND you cannot even play Blu-ray movies!

Granted, other than the "Elite" model 360, neither the PS3 or 360 comes with HDMI or (Arcade 360) component cables (which is damn silly considering these are HD consoles)....and yes, I know Xbox Live is an overall much better online experience than online play is with PSN, but you are paying for it so I would hope it is better....

Gizmo

- PS3 does not come with a HDMI Cable - 360 does (for their Elites at least). Hell PS3 only packs Composite cables not even Component!

- Hard Drive is not required as a Memory card is enough for people who just play retail games. If not, a hard drive can be had new for $99 or used for $30.

- Xbox Live is literally $4 a month if you buy the $50 package and a good shopper can find a 12/13 month card for $25. If not, $4 a month gets you a service that is vastly superior to what PSN has to offer all at the price of a cup of Starbucks coffee a month.

- WiFi is also not something everyone requires for various reasons (not interested in online gaming, has a WiFi bridge already etc.)

Even someone who grabs an Xbox Arcade could be happy out of the box and playing every game available on retail shelves.

chess

Are you arguing for the Elite or for the Arcade?

HDMI cable = $6 shipped (I have no clue why Sony doesn't include one, other than the fact that they probably sell a few for $50 )

Does anybody really know anybody who has a 360 without a hard drive?

Are you arguing for playing online or not?

When I get a 360 (and I will at some point when I'm comfortable with the reliability), I'll likely buy an Arcade, a used hard drive, an HDMI from monoprice, and a Wi-Fi adapter used. I think I could keep it under $300 as long as I settle for a 20Gb drive, and I'd still be looking at $30+ for my first year of Live.

That's a pretty barebones setup, and I could get a better equipped PS3 for the same price.

WMAangel

Only the Elite model comes with an HDMI cable....but now you're at the same price point as a PS3, and you don't have built-in wifi, free online, or the ability to play Blu-ray Discs.....besides, everyone knows you can just get a HDMI cable for like $5-10 at Monoprice....

Yes, someone who only has a standard definition TV, does not want to play any games online, or play any old original Xbox games, or download and play any game demos, could be happy just grabbing an "Arcade" unit....

Overall, dollar for dollar, the PS3 is a better value for what you get for your money, it just has a higher jumping off point which is a barrier for entry to many people....Microsoft allows for a cheaper starting point to get into their system, but then nickel and dimes you in the end where you'd be paying more than a PS3 and still having less to show for it....

PerryD

I bought a launch PS3 for blu-ray movies, but I have to admit that getting in cheap on the Xbox Arcade was good enough for gaming. I did end up picking up an official refurb 20GB drive for really cheap from Microsoft and getting a 13 month live card for $30 to set up Netflix HD streaming. The 360 Arcade model was really inexpensive, and I did a deal where I got a couple free games with it in addition to the pack in, so my cost was near free for the console. This minimal purchase allowed me to stock up on Blockbuster's 2/$15 used game sale, picking up a bunch of AAA titles also.

Wi-Fi is not needed. I ran a $10 ethernet cable from my router to the 360, with obviously excellent results, especially streaming high def content from Netflix.

Sony really needs to drop the system price, but if the article above is true that they are still losing money at the current $399 price, I don't know what they can do. Even at $299, they will only see a temporary spike since that's still above what most of the population will pay, they really need to get down to $249 and of course, eventually $199.

Gizmo

Everyone does not know about MonoPrice. If they did, sores would lower the cable prices from $100 to something along $20 to make it an impulse buy over waiting 2-4 days from Monoprice.

Do Arcades come with Composite only or is it the Composite/Component hybrids? You are forgetting all the PS3s come with Composite only. And again, not everyone wants to go online and not everyone wants to play Original Xbox games (which are hardly available in stores as it is). The only reason PS2 BC is a big deal is because PS2 was the biggest console last generation and everyone and their uncle typically has some PS2 games. Xbox and GameCube were blips. I could say exactly the same thing about PS3 in regards to not playing any PS2 games - which it can't do at all - not even an additional accessory will remedy that fix.

It's debatable. Again, not everyone wants to play online, not everyone needs 20GB of storage, not everyone wants to download demos, not everyone wants Blu-ray. If dollar for dollar PS3 is a better value explain to me why its constantly in last place month after month? Why are developers that were previously Sony only suddenly making games for Xbox? Why is the PS3 constantly getting games 'late'? Why is it only Tomb Raider on PS3 can outsell the 360 version while every other game does 1.5:1 or better? I think people just need to face the facts that the PS3 will be dead last this generation and nothing short of a miracle will change that. They stuck Blu-ray in their console and now they get to deal with the consequences.

hail2dking

This is one of the most tired excuses out there. Say what you will, but this is one thing MS did right. When Ma or Pa are looking to buy their kids a gaming console that is what they see:

For $200 you can play games on a 360
For $250 you can play games on a Wii
For $400 you can play games on a PS3

It is a lot easier to drop $200-$250 at one time and add options later than to drop $400 up front. On a $400 budget you can get a 360, 2nd contoller and 3 games...the Wii, 2nd wiimote+nunchuck and 2 games. The PS3...well, you get to show off your fancy new blu-ray player on your fancy HDTV in all of it's SD glory since it only comes with composite cables.

No, in fact most people have no clue that there are cheaper alternatives than what Best Buy, etc. recommends.

Spiderbite

I agree with this.

Also, people constantly gripe about not having a bare bones PS3 because they don't need the certain stuff that runs the cost up on it. But then people point to the 360 and bitch because it's not as good a value because they don't dump everything onto just one console. So which do you want? It seems MS can't win this argument.

I personally prefer it pieced out. I hard wire all my game systems so wi-fi means nothing to me. you can get a 13 month Live card for around $30 usually so paying $2.30 a month really means nothing. HDMI cables are a dime a dozen at monoprice.

The HDD is the biggest gripe I have with the 360. Granted I bought an Elite so I didn't have to worry with it but their prices on their solo HDDs are so ridiculously overpriced it is insane. And you have to use theirs and no one else's...something the PS3 didn't follow which was smart.

dvdsteve2000

At least the 360 gives you a choice. Once again, I own all three (since each launch)and currently have 2 Elite 360's, and I only use my PS3 as a BR player... and the Wii is a brick/paperweight. Someone that doesn't own an HDTV would have a hard time justifying the purchase of a PS3 unless there were so many exclusives that they had interest in, and again, are they worth paying twice as much as a 360 arcade...or the $249 (or $299, I can't remember) for a 20gb 360...or whatever the 60gb is going for now? Not everyone has interest in HD yet, and if you're HD-less, getting a PS3 is like buying a house but not being allowed to go upstairs.

WMAangel

I meant "everyone" in the sense of "everyone here, on DVDTalk"...I get the sense that most people who read this site are not going to be tricked into paying $100 for an HDMI "Monster Cable" at Best Buy....it was a tongue in cheek comment that I should have followed with a

Besides, only the Elite 360 comes with an HDMI cable....you can't use it as a negative against the PS3, while praising the cheaper 360 options which do not have one either....OK, so you have to buy an HDMI cable with a PS3, even with an Elite 360 you still have pay for wifi and online which together will cost way more than an HDMI cable, and even then you can't watch high def Blu-ray Discs....

Arcade 360s only come with a composite cable, so if you are directly comparing the Arcade model with the PS3, there is no advantage as both need a better cable for HD sets....

True, which is why if ALL you care about is playing current-gen games offline, than the 360 Arcade IS a good value....I'm not some PS3 fanboy crusader for the system, I just think that people write off the PS3 due to a higher price tag when you get a whole lot more for your money....then again, not everyone needs or even wants what the PS3 offers, so 360 does give you a choice in configuration....that doesn't change the fact that if you want a completely comparable 360 system, it will cost you more than a PS3 and yet you still cannot watch Blu-ray Discs....

Blips? Wow, way to just dismiss 46 million consoles sold worldwide between the two of them....

I only mentioned the backwards compatibility of the 360 in regards to the fact that the hard drive was necessary for the feature, which is something the Arcade does not have....it IS a bonus feature that the 360 offers, but you have to have the hard drive to use it, in which case you have to spend more than the Arcade's price tag of $199....

True, but how small of an audience is that really? I know a lot of people may not care about one of those things, but I doubt the majority of gamers don't care about ALL of them....

Simple: because it is more expensive and the competitive advantage of Blu-ray is only useful to owners of HDTV, which still is not yet even in half of the nation....

Because the install base is higher, and these days, virtually no third-party developer can afford to only create and sell on just one platform.....

Trust me, I am not in denial about anything....360 had a year lead to pull out, and then when PS3 did debut, it was both expensive and in short supply....the format war had to end to make the Blu-ray ability a competitive advantage which took another year, and in the meantime they also had a very slow start with their games, which just combined to put them too far behind in the beginning to catch up....the company used their video game division for the razor/razorblade strategy of the high def disc format wars...hopefully for them, it will be gamble that in the VERY long term will be correct, but it is still much too early to know (though BD adoption and sales are showing positive indicators).....

darkside

I definitely agree with this. The low price point is the only reason I own a 360. When I bought the PS3 I wanted all the features of it so it was well worth the cost and was no more expensive than the 360 if I added all of that to the cost. Actually at the time it was cheaper than a 360 with all the extras added in. If I had only wanted a machine for gaming it would have been a much tougher choice.

thelwig14

I sold my PS3 60gb on craigslist tonight. As a 3 console owner, the 360 is far superior in every aspect (the PS3 was my secondary blu player). I will buy another PS3 (hopefully there will be a pricedrop by that time) in October for the only exclusive I like (Uncharted).

And as far as online, I wish PSN had a pay for service. Paying $2 a month for Live is the biggest steal in gaming.

musick

so to make your case you are now changing the argument from home media delivery/playback systems to talking about portable playback systems

ok ... I'll pass on the twisted logic

edstein

What a train wreck. This thread has completely derailed. Are we really bringing up the hdmi cable and cost of online service arguments again? This thread should be closed.

FusionX

I just bought an arcade unit for my basement and it had component cable. This is the one with just the five arcade game disc. I have all three systems, with both 360s and PS3s in my viewing rooms, and I wouldn't be without them. I use the 360s the most, which I why I have so damn many of them, but the Wii is a blast for parties and the PS3 is the best BD player out there. I think 360 is vastly the superior format, but like I said, I wouldn't be without a Wii or PS3.

Raul3

Wait, don't lock it! I want to express my opinion too. But not tonight, I'm too tired.

I'll just say that some things are more perceptions.

FatTony

No kidding. What started as an almost legit discussion of whether the PS3 has "lost" this generation has devolved into the standard console argument. Shut it down.

davidlynchfan

Me just hope Sony loses that same ol controller when they start their next generation console.

glassdragon

I used to have a 360, and it was a great system. Do you want to know my reasons for getting a ps3?

First - 80 bucks for wireless. Seriously why didn't they put this in the 360, at least the elite built in, that was a mistake imo

Second - Best bluray player out there. BDlive, no firmware updates to worry about when the copyright protection on the movies is updated ever 3 hours, and less compatibility issues

Third - I have had 2 360's red ring, and it's still not fixed. Everytime I played a game, and it crashed I worried that it was the start of a red ring. Granted I was playing Saints Row 2 when it happened most of the time, and that game is a pretty buggy mess, but still, I should not have to worry about my console dying from an issue that would be fairly easy to fix if microsoft would just get their shit together.

The piece of mind I get from not having to worry about my system dying due to some hardware issue is worth it completely in my opinion. All I miss out on with the ps3 over the 360 is a few exclusives that imo aren't really don't make it all that worth it.

And come on people, lets not argue over an HDMI cable for god sakes, if you can't afford one of those then why the hell do you have a tv that can accept the input?

Those are my reasons for switching. I guess I am just tired of MS not caring enough to actually fix a pretty huge technical issue on their console after 2 or 3 years of release, that is pretty ludicrous to me.

thelwig14

I am on my 3rd 360. I just have to factor in Best Buy's replacement program into the cost of 360 now. Though this time (it was after the first year), the Halo 3/Fable 2 game more or less paid for the new warranty.

gr8vette

I believe Sony has lost this generation.

I had a launch PS3 and sold it last November. I NEVER used it for games.

Here is the thing: The KILLER aspect about the 360 is Xbox Live. Sony and Nintendo have had 3+ years to develop something like Xbox Live and neither of them have come remotely close!

Until they do, the 360 will be the system to have when you want to play games online with your friends.

And the thing is, Microsoft is continually making Xbox Live better. (Netflix, party options, and photo parties recently added.) The more Microsoft makes Xbox Live better, the harder it will be for Sony and Nintendo to close the gap in the online superiority.

You guys can argue all you want about HDMI, Wireless, etc.

When it comes down to games, the 360 and the PS3 are pretty much the same when it comes to gameplay and graphics. Soooo...

1. The 360 has a HUGE price advantage that Sony will never be able to close. If Sony drops the price, Microsoft will drop the price. Remember Microsoft is making money on every 360, Sony is loosing money on every PS3. Who is in a better position to drop prices???

2. The 360 has Xbox Live for $40 per year (Average). It is FAR SUPERIOR to the the free offering that Sony offers on the PS3. People who say otherwise are either Sony fanboys or have never tried Xbox Live. There really is no comparison.

3. When it comes to exclusives, the 360 has (arguably) had a MUCH better selection. Of the ones I have played on the 360, Gears of War 1 and 2, Fable 2, Halo Wars, Mass Effect, and Halo 3 to a lesser extent, have all been incredibly good games and system sellers. Of the PS3 games, only Uncharted has been really good. LittleBigPlanet was a HUGE disappointment! Great idea, great graphics, poor controls, and average gameplay! Resistance 1 and 2 were just OK. Killzone - Just OK. Metal Gear? Well it may have been a great game, but my gosh, I just could not get past all those cinimatics.

In any event, I could care less if the best system is a Sony, Microsoft, or a Nintendo... I have no brand loyalty. I buy and support whatever is the best... and in my opinion, the 360 is BY FAR the best system this generation, and that is even with the RROD problem.

My 360 had 2 RROD errors, both fixed for free in a timely manner from Microsoft. It is really no biggie.

Yes, my PS3 never game me a problem while it was sitting there collecting dust. WooHoo!

gr8vette

Just to clarify... I obviously did play games on the PS3, but compared to the 360, it just sat there collecting dust.

Groucho

How did that go the last time they tried that?

RichC2

I wouldn't mind a new controller, as long as it doesn't look like a boomerang sex toy.

Kelkee

The biggest problem Sony has this generation is the PS2.

Why are they still making the PS2?

MS no longer makes the XBOX and Ninty no longer makes the GC. Sony is competing with noone but themselves as long as they continue to offer the PS2 for $99.00.