The Official PS3 Thread
#901
Banned
Originally Posted by Setzer
I believe Kaz stated they had the idea of using motion sensor technology in their controller long before Nintendo.
Maybe but I doubt it. Why then did they never mention it before the Wiimote was shown off? Even if they didn't steal that from Nintendo, they have stolen other things, like the analog stick and rumble. After Nintendo showed off their N64 controller which featured both of those, Sony came up with the Dual Shock controller. Coincidence? Highly doubtful. Besides would someone openly admit to stealing someone else's ideas? It certainly wouldn't be the first time Sony deceived the public.
#902
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
Maybe but I doubt it. Why then did they never mention it before the Wiimote was shown off? Even if they didn't steal that from Nintendo, they have stolen other things, like the analog stick and rumble. After Nintendo showed off their N64 controller which featured both of those, Sony came up with the Dual Shock controller. Coincidence? Highly doubtful. Besides would someone openly admit to stealing someone else's ideas? It certainly wouldn't be the first time Sony deceived the public.
#903
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Exactly. Other than Blu-Ray, every single feature/idea on the PS3 came from a competing company.
#904
Banned
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by pinata242
If the were no difference, who in their right mind would get a $1000 stand-alone player? There's two sides to this BR issue. The PS3's inclusion is being used solely as a Trojan Horse in the BR/HD-DVD battle. It can be the shittiest thing in the world as long as it allows software to run, for the time being.
#905
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed
Ill upgrade to a very nice high end unit years later once prices have gone down bigtime and use the PS3 for games only.
#906
Banned
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisHicks
assuming the PS3 will last that long and doesn't break 1st.
#907
Banned by request
I'm a little late to the party on the pricing of PS3 games, but as soon as I read that article, I thought of one thing.
Remember in Who Framed Roger Rabbit when Bob Hoskins' character is in Toontown and he walks through a door to a sheer drop from a highrise apartment building? That's what Sony did when they announced the price of the PS3.
Now remember in the movie when Bugs and Mickey show up wearing parachutes and offer Hoskins' character a spare, and he begs them for it, but Bugs doesn't think that he really wants it. And Hoskins swears that he wants the spare. So Bugs gives it to him, and it's a spare tire? That's what happened to Sony when they realized selling their console at such a loss meant pricing games over $60.
Sadly, I don't think Sony will survive the fall in a Wile E. Coyote fashion.
Remember in Who Framed Roger Rabbit when Bob Hoskins' character is in Toontown and he walks through a door to a sheer drop from a highrise apartment building? That's what Sony did when they announced the price of the PS3.
Now remember in the movie when Bugs and Mickey show up wearing parachutes and offer Hoskins' character a spare, and he begs them for it, but Bugs doesn't think that he really wants it. And Hoskins swears that he wants the spare. So Bugs gives it to him, and it's a spare tire? That's what happened to Sony when they realized selling their console at such a loss meant pricing games over $60.
Sadly, I don't think Sony will survive the fall in a Wile E. Coyote fashion.
#908
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Minnesota
Originally Posted by Setzer
I believe Kaz stated they had the idea of using motion sensor technology in their controller long before Nintendo.
#909
Originally Posted by Setzer
I believe Kaz stated they had the idea of using motion sensor technology in their controller long before Nintendo.
#910
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by devynal
With the inception of the batarang controller, no news of "motion sensor" technology was brought forth until Nintendo unveiled their controller. Shortly thereafter, Sony abandoned that designed and came out with the tried and trusted dual-shock w/ "new amazing motion" technology.
I think it's pretty common knowledge that Sony dropped the vibration and went with motion sensing because of the lawsuit from Immersion Corp. The "batarang" controller idea was also partially due to the lawsuit, since Sony thought they were going to be forced to redesign the DualShock.
#911
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Link? Eh, even if he did say that I don't believe it for a second. I prefer if he didn't say that.
“It was so secret that people thought we came up with it [right before E3],” Kaz Hirai explains. “But this thing has been in [Ken] Kutaragi's mind for the longest time. Do you remember the original PlayStation controller, the one without the analog sticks? We started there, and then we added the two sticks for the analog controller. Then we added the vibration feature and called it DualShock controller, and then we came up with the DualShock 2, which had pressure-sensitive buttons.”
He continues, “Every time we added some functionality, it was to make the controller be more intuitive, to make it feel like a part of your body, and to make it more realistic in terms of how it interacts with the game. Now we've added the motion sensors, so it's the natural progression of wanting to improve the controller so that it becomes a natural extension of your body. If you see how the controller has evolved, it seems natural, as opposed to 'Hey, look at this.' This didn't come as something that we wanted to do the day of the press conference.”
#912
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed
Home Theater junkies will always go to a stand alone no matter the price because it looks right in their setups and they want a dedicated peice of hardware for movie playing. Ps3 is there to bring EVERYONE else in. I wouldnt pay 1k for a blu-ray player. I wont pay 500 for a HD-DVD player. I will pay 600 for a Blu-Ray player/Game system. Get the logic? Thats how most will think.
#913
Banned by request
I just read another interview with Ken Kutaragi, this one in PSM, and he is so adamant that the lack of an HDMI port is going to be no big deal.
Yeah, no big deal until studios enable ICT flags and put in HD audio. Then component isn't going to do so much for you.
Ken Kutaragi is fast becoming the most obnoxious man in the video game world. He makes Peter Moore look like a realist.
Yeah, no big deal until studios enable ICT flags and put in HD audio. Then component isn't going to do so much for you.
Ken Kutaragi is fast becoming the most obnoxious man in the video game world. He makes Peter Moore look like a realist.
#914
Banned
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I just read another interview with Ken Kutaragi, this one in PSM, and he is so adamant that the lack of an HDMI port is going to be no big deal.
Yeah, no big deal until studios enable ICT flags and put in HD audio. Then component isn't going to do so much for you.
Ken Kutaragi is fast becoming the most obnoxious man in the video game world. He makes Peter Moore look like a realist.
Yeah, no big deal until studios enable ICT flags and put in HD audio. Then component isn't going to do so much for you.
Ken Kutaragi is fast becoming the most obnoxious man in the video game world. He makes Peter Moore look like a realist.
#915
DVD Talk Special Edition
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,865
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed
i dont get it, if you want a PS3 but dont care for movies, what is wrong with the non-hdmi system? They both do 1080p out. And they still both play movies.
How many TV's out there do 1080p over component? Just curious.
#916
Retired
Originally Posted by kvrdave
I don't know that this is how most will think, personally. With Grand Theft Auto IV coming to the 360 at the same time as the PS3 and Halo3 around the corner, I am more likely to buy a 360 and a Wii. I believe that is how most will think. I don't think HD movie watching will be as big a deal to the gamers as Sony thinks it will.
Being able to play HD movies is an added bonus, but I don't think it will have the impact that the PS2 being able to play DVDs did. I was in college at the time and knew a ton of people who used their PS2 as their DVD player. But these kids in dorms and crappy apartments aren't going to have HDTVs so it will be moot this time, same with most kids who's parents buy them consoles to hook up in their bedrooms etc.
Factor in the price being $500-600, with the competition much lower, and it loses even more of its luster.
In 2011 or whenever the gen after this begins, being able to play whichever HD format has won out will be a big plus, I just don't see it mattering this gen as the winner will be determined well before even HDTVs are spread widely, much less these DVD formats.
#917
Banned by request
Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed
i dont get it, if you want a PS3 but dont care for movies, what is wrong with the non-hdmi system? They both do 1080p out. And they still both play movies.
#918
Guest
I know this has been posted previously, but still interesting that the LA Times is now reporting it.
Chris
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...?track=tothtml
From the Los Angeles Times
Furor Over Sony Patent
Technology that could prevent resale of games and other digital goods raises speculation, fears.
By Dawn C. Chmielewski
Times Staff Writer
July 10, 2006
Sony Corp. has patented technology that would prevent its PlayStation consoles from playing used, rented or borrowed video games — raising questions about whether the electronics and entertainment giant may attempt to redefine what it means to own something in the digital age.
Sony has said little about the technology, patented in Japan in 2000, or how it might be deployed. But speculation over Sony's plans has sparked a furor online as game fans and consumer advocates fret that the company may incorporate it into the upcoming PlayStation 3 console, due to hit stores this fall.
They worry that it would wipe out the $1-billion-a-year market for used games and could even prevent someone from playing their games at a friend's house.
It is not unusual for technology companies to patent innovations and then never incorporate them into products.
Documents filed in April 2000 with the U.S. Patent Office describe a method of copy protection by which the game system would verify a disc as legitimate, register the disc to that particular game console, then wipe out verification data so the disc would be rendered unreadable in other PlayStations.
"Since only titles for which legitimate software has actually been purchased and which have been initially registered in the machine table can be used, resale (so-called used software purchase) after purchase by an end user becomes practically impossible," according to the patent documents.
Although Sony has been vague about its plans for the technology, "I actually think they're toying with this idea," said Michael Pachter, a game industry analyst for Wedbush Morgan Securities.
Pachter said he thought Sony probably would not tighten the software locks on PlayStation 3 games but might employ bolstered copy protection on other forms of entertainment downloaded to the console over the Internet.
"Maybe they'll copy protect movies or music downloads," he said.
Whatever Sony's plans, the tempest illustrates the changing nature of ownership as millions of people accumulate vast collections of digital entertainment. Few people realize that when they buy software, music or movies, they are actually buying a license to use, listen or watch.
That's why it violates copyright laws for people to sell copies of their music collection.
Sony was attacked this year for including software on some of its music CDs that surreptitiously installed itself on computers playing the disc. The software was intended to prevent unauthorized copying. Sony later apologized.
Taking that sort of copy protection one step further would be, in the words of one analyst, "crazy."
"What does Sony get from that?" said John Taylor of Arcadia Investment Corp. "Sony gets a black eye. It doesn't make sense to me."
Several analysts said the patent appeared to principally be aimed at deterring game piracy. Indeed, Sony's patent notes that through the complexity of its copy-protection scheme "manufacture of counterfeit software becomes extremely difficult."
And it's not unusual for technology companies such as Sony to register patents either in anticipation of one day collecting royalties from someone seeking to license the technology or to prevent someone else from deploying it.
"These are all things technologically possible to do in any computing device," said one cryptographer, who requested anonymity. "In the video game business, it would be suicide for someone to do this. It's actually possible Sony filed this because they wanted to keep people from doing that."
Nonetheless, online speculation that Sony would use technological or other means to ban the sale of used PlayStation 3 video games prompted one analyst, P.J. McNealy of American Technology Research, to study its potential effect on the industry.
"While we believe it is unlikely that SNE will ban PS3 pre-owned games from being sold by the same chains that sell new PS3 games, we believe this issue remains under consideration," McNealy wrote in a research note issued June 23.
McNealy estimated that game fans spent about $990 million buying used games, primarily from GameStop or through EBay. Much of that spending — about $620 million — is for used PlayStation 2 games.
Were Sony to ban the sale of used games for its next-generation PS3, the effect on independent video game publishers would be negligible, McNealy said.
Used-game sales are a growing source of irritation for game publishers, which receive no proceeds from the resale of games. Executives privately complain that cheaper secondhand games are available for sale shortly after a new game's release; publishers, which give retailers marketing money to promote games, end up competing with discounted versions of their own titles.
Major independent game publishers Electronic Arts Inc., Activision Inc. and THQ Inc. declined to comment.
Meanwhile, used games are a lucrative source of revenue for retailer GameStop, which began reporting pre-owned game sales after its acquisition of competitor EB. Last year, secondhand game sales accounted for $930 million in revenue and $418 million in profit. The profit margin was 45%, compared with 21% for new games, according to Arcadia Investment Corp.
Analysts say used-game sales contribute to the overall growth of the video game market, in the same way that the ability to trade in a used vehicle fuels the new-car market.
"A used-car market creates currency to buy new cars. Same with games. Everybody acknowledges that," Pachter said. "The problem is if the used game is available a week after the new game is out for a $5 discount."
From the Los Angeles Times
Furor Over Sony Patent
Technology that could prevent resale of games and other digital goods raises speculation, fears.
By Dawn C. Chmielewski
Times Staff Writer
July 10, 2006
Sony Corp. has patented technology that would prevent its PlayStation consoles from playing used, rented or borrowed video games — raising questions about whether the electronics and entertainment giant may attempt to redefine what it means to own something in the digital age.
Sony has said little about the technology, patented in Japan in 2000, or how it might be deployed. But speculation over Sony's plans has sparked a furor online as game fans and consumer advocates fret that the company may incorporate it into the upcoming PlayStation 3 console, due to hit stores this fall.
They worry that it would wipe out the $1-billion-a-year market for used games and could even prevent someone from playing their games at a friend's house.
It is not unusual for technology companies to patent innovations and then never incorporate them into products.
Documents filed in April 2000 with the U.S. Patent Office describe a method of copy protection by which the game system would verify a disc as legitimate, register the disc to that particular game console, then wipe out verification data so the disc would be rendered unreadable in other PlayStations.
"Since only titles for which legitimate software has actually been purchased and which have been initially registered in the machine table can be used, resale (so-called used software purchase) after purchase by an end user becomes practically impossible," according to the patent documents.
Although Sony has been vague about its plans for the technology, "I actually think they're toying with this idea," said Michael Pachter, a game industry analyst for Wedbush Morgan Securities.
Pachter said he thought Sony probably would not tighten the software locks on PlayStation 3 games but might employ bolstered copy protection on other forms of entertainment downloaded to the console over the Internet.
"Maybe they'll copy protect movies or music downloads," he said.
Whatever Sony's plans, the tempest illustrates the changing nature of ownership as millions of people accumulate vast collections of digital entertainment. Few people realize that when they buy software, music or movies, they are actually buying a license to use, listen or watch.
That's why it violates copyright laws for people to sell copies of their music collection.
Sony was attacked this year for including software on some of its music CDs that surreptitiously installed itself on computers playing the disc. The software was intended to prevent unauthorized copying. Sony later apologized.
Taking that sort of copy protection one step further would be, in the words of one analyst, "crazy."
"What does Sony get from that?" said John Taylor of Arcadia Investment Corp. "Sony gets a black eye. It doesn't make sense to me."
Several analysts said the patent appeared to principally be aimed at deterring game piracy. Indeed, Sony's patent notes that through the complexity of its copy-protection scheme "manufacture of counterfeit software becomes extremely difficult."
And it's not unusual for technology companies such as Sony to register patents either in anticipation of one day collecting royalties from someone seeking to license the technology or to prevent someone else from deploying it.
"These are all things technologically possible to do in any computing device," said one cryptographer, who requested anonymity. "In the video game business, it would be suicide for someone to do this. It's actually possible Sony filed this because they wanted to keep people from doing that."
Nonetheless, online speculation that Sony would use technological or other means to ban the sale of used PlayStation 3 video games prompted one analyst, P.J. McNealy of American Technology Research, to study its potential effect on the industry.
"While we believe it is unlikely that SNE will ban PS3 pre-owned games from being sold by the same chains that sell new PS3 games, we believe this issue remains under consideration," McNealy wrote in a research note issued June 23.
McNealy estimated that game fans spent about $990 million buying used games, primarily from GameStop or through EBay. Much of that spending — about $620 million — is for used PlayStation 2 games.
Were Sony to ban the sale of used games for its next-generation PS3, the effect on independent video game publishers would be negligible, McNealy said.
Used-game sales are a growing source of irritation for game publishers, which receive no proceeds from the resale of games. Executives privately complain that cheaper secondhand games are available for sale shortly after a new game's release; publishers, which give retailers marketing money to promote games, end up competing with discounted versions of their own titles.
Major independent game publishers Electronic Arts Inc., Activision Inc. and THQ Inc. declined to comment.
Meanwhile, used games are a lucrative source of revenue for retailer GameStop, which began reporting pre-owned game sales after its acquisition of competitor EB. Last year, secondhand game sales accounted for $930 million in revenue and $418 million in profit. The profit margin was 45%, compared with 21% for new games, according to Arcadia Investment Corp.
Analysts say used-game sales contribute to the overall growth of the video game market, in the same way that the ability to trade in a used vehicle fuels the new-car market.
"A used-car market creates currency to buy new cars. Same with games. Everybody acknowledges that," Pachter said. "The problem is if the used game is available a week after the new game is out for a $5 discount."
Chris
#919
DVD Talk Godfather
I can't believe that idea is still on the table. I guess it all depends on what they percieve their biggest loss of revenue will be. Used sales & piracy or loss of console/future game sales. If they think they will lose more to group A and just anger/alienate some of their user base I can see it happening. Especially if this gets third parties on their side since they will generate more revenue not having to compete with themselves over used titles.
One thing is for certain, win or lose this gen, Sony has been cockier than ever with the PS3.
One thing is for certain, win or lose this gen, Sony has been cockier than ever with the PS3.
#920
DVD Talk Hero
Sony is making my brain hurt. I spent about 20 minutes explaining to my wife why Sony is fucking up this system the other day. The more I talked about it, the more I realized that yes, this really IS a stupid way to sell a game console.
It boggles my mind.
It boggles my mind.
#921
Guest
If we apply their logic to everything, then when a person sells their used car, all that money should go back to the car maker.
Or what about houses? A house is resold many times in it's lifetime. Should all those resale monies go back to the original seller?
I really hope this arrogance comes back to bite them in their ass in a BIG way!
Chris
Or what about houses? A house is resold many times in it's lifetime. Should all those resale monies go back to the original seller?
I really hope this arrogance comes back to bite them in their ass in a BIG way!
Chris
#922
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I can't imagine Sony being so stupid as to pursue the 'game only plays on one console' strategy, especially as described in that article. What if a PS3 goes belly up and has to be replaced? The owner's entire game library would be unplayable on the new system. Same would go for if someone wanted to have more than one system in their house, though at $500/$600 a pop, that's probably not something many people would have to worry about.
Also, they're already talking about increasing game prices. Do they really think they could simultaneously pull that off, while reducing what the consumer actually receives for their money? The only way I can see the whole non-transferrable license thing working would be if they drastically dropped the prices for games across the board. They want consumers to pay for a game that can only be played on one system and retains absolutely no monetary value once it's played for the first time? Fine, drop the prices to reflect the lost value to the customer. I'd pay about $5 to $10 for one of those games.
On top of everything else they've done, if Sony actually introduced this nonsense with the PS3, I think it'd be time to stop asking 'Why is Sony doing these things if they want to succeed?' and start asking 'Why is Sony intentionally trying to go bankrupt?'
Also, they're already talking about increasing game prices. Do they really think they could simultaneously pull that off, while reducing what the consumer actually receives for their money? The only way I can see the whole non-transferrable license thing working would be if they drastically dropped the prices for games across the board. They want consumers to pay for a game that can only be played on one system and retains absolutely no monetary value once it's played for the first time? Fine, drop the prices to reflect the lost value to the customer. I'd pay about $5 to $10 for one of those games.
On top of everything else they've done, if Sony actually introduced this nonsense with the PS3, I think it'd be time to stop asking 'Why is Sony doing these things if they want to succeed?' and start asking 'Why is Sony intentionally trying to go bankrupt?'
#923
Banned by request
Sony honestly thinks that their name is so strong that they can pull this off. They think that BD is such a strong trojan horse that it will justify the price. They truly think that Microsoft and Nintendo are no threat whatsoever. They are wrong on all three counts and I sincerely hope that there comes a day that I can't give away a PS3.




