Mario is a whore!
 

I was out shopping and when I was poking around the the videogame section it dawned on me that Mario is now a dirty whore.

Here's a list off the top of my head and I'm sure several are missing.

Super Mario Bros. -Main series
Donkey Kong
Mario is missing
Mario Golf
Mario Tennis
Mario Paint
Super Smash Bros
NBA Street Vol 3
DDR Mario Mix
Mario Baseball
Super Mario Strikers (soccer)
Dr. Mario
Mario and Luigi
Mario Kart
Mario Pinball
Mario vs Donkey Kong
Mario Party
Super Mario RPG

Now I'm not saying that these are bad games. Many are fantastic games. My point is why do they feel the need to drop Mario in EVERY SINGLE NEW SERIES!

Brand recognition. In today's fucked up "mainstream" gaming world, you've got to have something people are familiar with to sell the game. It's sad, but true. I mean.. a fucking 50 Cent game?! Something is seriously, seriously wrong there. Case in point.. Sega Soccer Slam, nobody bought it. Now Mario Strikers (an update of Sega Soccer Slam) is selling quite well.

Tell me about it. What I don't like is how Nintendo says they won't do a new Mario platformer until they have a new idea that will make the game innovative, but they have no problem sticking him into countless other games. I would have loved a sequel to Mario 64 or Mario Sunshine that was basically the same game with new levels, but they won't do that because the game won't be fresh or innovative. Yet, we're up to Mario Party 7!

You know I might agree with you if all those games they are dropping him in were bad games. However, Nintendo has really done a great job of picking excellent titles to drop him into.

You have to look at it from Nintendo's standpoint. The GameCube struggled badly in 2003 and 2004 so they change strategy a bit and do these Mario tie ins with their own second party games and with 3rd parties like EA and the Cube is having one of its best sales years ever. Mario Baseball was a big hit, DDR Mario sold out and started an eBay craze for a short time, Mario Soccer is selling well, etc.

Maybe this is the fault of the marketplace and a generation of gamers that refuse to give new things like Killer 7 and Beyond Good and Evil a try, but I don't blame Nintendo for trying this if they at least make sure the games he is in will be good ones.

I guess that makes him a dirty whore, but he is also the hardest working plumber in showbiz.

What next?

Halo Volleyball
Halo Soccer
Halo Fighting, oh wait he is in fighting already Dead or Alive 4 :shrug:

<s>Halo is $Uck in my Book.</s>

<b>Mod Note: Threadcrapping is NOT GOOD</b>

Wow, what insight you have... I think you should apply for the video gaming reviewer position here...

I agree... if they are good games, and this ups the recognition to get more copies sold then its a non issue. Actually if it helps them continue to make good games to do some character placement, etc then I'm all for it. If on the other hand they were pimping him out in really bad games, that would be a real problem...

The fact that slapping Mario on a title increases sales says more about the people who buy the games than Nintendo for making them.

Even if they are good games?

edit: I forgot you were the guy in the PSP thread. Forget it, I'm not interested in arguing with a Sony guy. I have, and appreciate, all the consoles.

Mario is Nintendo. They are entitled to make as many games as they want about the little guy.

No one is going to dispute the popularity of DDR. But if Konami feels that they need to add Mario in order to get recognition on a Nintendo platform (where they have been sucessful on other consoles without localization efforts), then that is sad.

You didn't see Konami add Ratchet or Jak to the PS2 version, or add Halo characters to the Xbox version. This is because the game is good. The fact that they felt the need to add Mario to their title to get sales is... well... sad.

Just theorizing here ...

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of Mario ... think about him more like a 'Seal of Quality' than a any sort of improvement to a game. People may be buying games with Mario in them not to see Mario, but because they know that if Nintendo dares place Mario in the game, they feel that it is a worthy title. Remember, Nintendo makes some really fucked up "niche" games (soccer, tennis, golf, mario party) which most would dismiss on sight yet virtually everyone finds fun once they play. Mario isn't there to elevate the title, here's there to say, "trust us ... this game is good ... just try it."

This is not by any means an issue only with Nintendo gamers though, but gamers in general. Why do you think the PS2 and Xbox are flooded with GTA clones and FPS games? Its the same kind of thing. GTA and Halo sold well so publishers are trying to piggyback success by copying them. For your later comment I can only mention Jak X racing. Sony apparently thinks the franchise is getting big enough to spread it out more. The reason third parties are not going out of there way to add more Sony and MS characters to their games has a lot to do with the fact none of them are Mario. I don't think Daxter is going to pull in the attention of adding a Mario.

Adding Mario to DDR? What's next, adding Disney characters to DDR or Final Fantasy? Oh, wait, that already happened. Put me in the camp that enjoys the Mario titles, as mentioned they have been very selective with the developers used in the Mario titles, so the titles almost overwhelmingly high quality and hit their target audience perfectly (younger gamers or casual adult gamers).

I take it you don't have any Nintendo devices because you don't like Mario? Yesterday I played Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga on my DS, came home and played Ninja Gaiden Black on my XBox, and then played Ratchet and Clank until 2 in the morning. I don't care who they put in what game, if the game is fun, I want to play it, it doesn't matter to me who made it. It's an awesome time to be a gamer, and limiting yourself because you don't like Mario, well, is just ignorant.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, you don't have to choose sides, you can have them all!

Placing your character into many different genres is very different than having many games by different companies in a single genre. Come on, you know that. Why would you even say something like that? That would be like criticizing Sega for making a basketball game when EA makes basketball games.

Jak X racing is sort of an idea extention of the series, more than plastering his face on a game. Yes, its a bit of a face value thing (Jak X Racing as apposed to the previous Crash Racing games) but there is racing in the Jak series. There are plenty of missions in all 3 games which feature racing. Its not like Mario ever played tennis in the platform games.

I never said I didn't like Mario. All I said was that it is sad that in order to sell a title Nintendo (or whoever is making the games) feels they need to have Mario in that game to guarantee sucess. A character doesn't add fun to a game - the game is fun no matter who is it in. A character adds familiarity to the consumer, which increases sales.

So do you have any Nintendo devices?

gotta go xmas shopping, discuss more later

I think its innovative.

I really think that that opened the door for other franchises on other consoles to try something different with the characters that they have.

In the past few years we've gotten:

DOA --> DOA Volleyball
Jak and Dexter --> Jak X: Combat Racing
Ratchet and Clank -- > R&C: Deadlocked
... and a bunch of other character based racing and fighting and sports games.

Now I'm just waiting for RAW vs. SMACKDOWN: BASES LOADED!

Not sure what this has to do with this topic, but yes. My NES is sitting right next to me with SMB3 in it. I might as well just glue it inside, because it is one of the best platformers ever.

My kids are not into sports games but with Mario in it they'll play it. Heck they're playing Mario Golf, Mario Strikers and Mario DDR. They are asking me to buy them Mario Tennis and Mario Baseball because Mario is there.

Its obvious from your comments that you are not really familiar with the games and you are speaking purely from you normal pro Sony bias. What you are saying is true of games like SSX and NBA Street were Mario was tossed in as added value, but not really true of the others. The Nintendo published Mario sports games, the Mario RPGs, DDR Mario, etc were all designed from the ground up to take full advantage of the character and the world of Mario. Its not as simple as just tossing him in the game for a quick cash grab.

And yes putting Jak in a racing game is pretty much the same thing as putting Mario in a racing game, baseball game, soccer game, DDR game etc. If Jak does well in a racing game Sony will definitely consider branching him out to other genres as they want a mascot just as much as any company.

The EA titles are an exception as those are not Mario games in any way, but even Soul Calibur II tried the add an extra character thing on all three consoles so its not something completely new.

Mario has been a workhorse for Nintendo since Jumpman was created so really this is nothing new. If he is a whore so be it, but you have to love the quality of the Mario games and the 184 million units of Mario games that have been sold is an impressive number Sony and Microsoft would love to duplicate with a mascot of their own.

I skipped the bottome half of this thread. But anyone who says Mario is just "slapped into the game" really has no idea what they're talking about.

Mario isn't just a character, it's a whole package, you've got the characters, the old school nintendo music, different types of gameplay such as powerups and such, but the icing on the cake is that the games ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY DAMN GOOD! If I buy a game with Mario in it I know it's going to be good based on my past experience with the franchise because Nintendo treats it with care. That's why they continue to sell. Of course there's the brand recognition too, that will never hurt.

but seriously, ratchet and clank 4, Crash Team Racing, it's not just nintendo doing this.

Glad you agree with me and the OP after putting up a resistance.

No one here is questioning the quality of Mario titles, though I suppose your pro-Nintendo bias makes you think that we are. The only thing that is being said is that Nintendo is whoring out the Mario name to earn a buck.

And how exactly is Mario DDR so different from every other DDR game out there?

Who gives a shit. Mario is a popular character and Nintendo takes advantage of it instead of making new, generic characters for their arcadey sports games etc.

I agreed with term whoring by the OP in my very first post BTW.

If whoring is the term you want to use I guess I will agree and no one wants to see original titles like Beyond Good and Evil, Killer 7, Phoenix Wright etc catch on more than me, but again how is putting him in a string of quality titles a negative thing again? That seems to be the point you are making and I'm having trouble with that. If they were dropping him in a bunch of poorly made shit I would agree Nintendo was ruining the franchise, but Mario Baseball, Soccer, Paper Mario, DDR Mario etc have been pretty good overall. The board games are average, but they continue to sell big and are good for what they are so Nintendo keeps publishing those as well.

Mario DDR, Baseball, Soccer, whatever is different because it is set in the Mario World using characters, storylines, music, abilities etc. No Mario DDR is not the same as the regular DDR games besides the basic play mechanics but Konami is always trying to put a new coat of paint on the franchise so a Mario version is not entirely a big departure.

You have also failed to explain why you have no problem with your beloved Sony spinning their franchise character off in a different genre. What you are doing in this thread is what you always do. Troll in a non Sony thread so you can piss people off and bash non Sony products. You add zero to the discussion as always. For your information I have a pro gamer bias not Nintendo. I have owned all three consoles this generation and most of the consoles of the previous generations. I have also owned all three of the major handhelds on the market. Something you can not say. I play games not hardware.

I will give all three companies credit where it is due and right now Sony has the best game on the market with Dragon Quest VIII another franchise that is popular and gets spun off into other things in Japan because of it.

He's got the whole NES collection on PSP ;).

I'm still waiting for Grand Theft Mario: The Mushroom Kingdom!

So far I like this answer the best and I can agree with it for the most part. There are very few games with Mario in them that I have disliked so I think it can be used as a "Seal of Quality".


I've noticed Mario in tons of games prior to last night but actually seeing DDR Mario Mix sealed the whole "Mario is a whore" thought process. I just pictured Mario dancing and some guy with a whip yelling "DANCE MONKEY BOY!".

Smackdown vs Raw on PSP has a WWE Poker game as an extra. That's halfway there.

I can't wait for Master Chief Teaches Typing of the Dead with Mavis Beacon.

Just ignore Joshd. Look at his signature, my quote has been there for like 3 years. When he has an opinion, he sticks to it. He loves Sony,and hates anything Nintendo or Microsoft. There is no point in having any type of discussions with him.

Don't be naive. It is not "sort of an idea extension", its a blatent copy of Nintendo's very successful formula or taking a super popular platform character series over to a kart racing genre. Sony copied it with Crash they copied it with Jak. Don't kid yourself. Hell, the "racing" parts of Jak (Which I loved by the way) were likely specifically positioned in order to position the series as a Kart racer later on. Was there racing elements in the first Jak?

Anytime a company can build up an IP it means money, and they will leverage it. I don't blame them for it, you shouldn't either.

Again, you are misreading what I have written, probably because of your pro-Nintendo bias. I never criticized Nintendo for whoring out Mario. I criticized people who need a Mario or some other recognizable character to buy a game. A game stands on its own, regardless of who the characters are. It shouldn't matter if Mario is playing baseball or not - if its a good baseball game, people will buy it. As a supporter of lesser known games like Killer 7, and Beyond Good & Evil, you should be supporting games standing on their own, regardless who the main character is.

The only thing I criticize, is people who automatically assume a game is not worth playing because it doesn't come from Nintendo with a Mario character. Would Killer 7 be any better if Mario was the lead character? No, the game is good with or without him. Would more people buy the game if Mario was the lead character? You bet. Millions more. That is the problem with the gaming market and I criticize the market for this, not Nintendo for recognizing the market.

But I do enjoy when the discussion goes on the defensive. Comments like "I own all 3 systems" or "Sony does it too" really do nothing for your arguement. I really don't care what systems you own, or if other gaming companies do it too. This was never about criticizing Nintendo, though you trying to turn it into that type of discussion is pretty pitiful. This was about the market needing a familiar character to sell a game. That is what I have been criticizing this whole time - not your precious Nintendo.

We need Mario:Miami and Mario:Special Victims Unit.

I'm not criticizing Nintendo so much as I am criticizing the consumer. And yes, there was racing in the first Jak title. And yes, Sony is trying to extend the franchise, but its not like he is being removed from his world. There was always racing in the world Jak lived it. I'll have to go back, but I'm pretty sure Mario never played Tennis on his way to rescue the princess. Again, not criticizing Nintendo, just the consumer that needs Mario to be in the game inorder to buy it - even if it really has nothing to do with Mario or the Mario World beyond similar characters.

Killer 7 and BG&E are multi-platform games, whereas the games that you say the big "N" are whoring are specifically for the Nintendo consoles. There is nothing that can match that on either the Sony or Microsoft consoles.

Look at the Sonic series. They tried with that. There were some crappy games that sold merely because they had that hedgehog on the front of the case. There were platformers, puzzle games, pinball, fighting games, heck, there's even a Tamogachi twist in Advanced Battle.

Though most of the original games were released solely for the Sega System and later the other three got a piece of the action. So I guess we can say that Sonic is a bigger whore than Mario, since he has more exposure to other consoles.

If you really want to fuel the fire, why not bring up things like Pokemon... all of those games are very specific towards a 'whored' character (i.e. Pikachu or Ash). We've got Pokemon [insert color here], Pokemon Stadium (1 & 2), Pokemon Coloseum, Pokemon XD, Pokemon Pinball, Pokemon Snap, Pokemon Channel, Pokemon Puzzle League, Pokemon Dash... and I could go on.

I have posted this article before but I think this is a perfect discussion to repost it. It is an article from Lost Garden on Nintendo's strategy in the marketplace.

http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/ninten...-strategy.html

Here is a quote from the article
Take Square for example, they release many different RPG's but all with the same gameplay mechanics for the most part. Nintendo tends to release games with the Mario title, but all different gameplay mechanics and typically in "new" genres. For a kart racing game they threw in Mario, for the MegaParty games they threw in Wario, etc.

I realize Nintendo whores out Mario, especially lately giving him to second and third parties for games like NBA Street and DDR. But for the most part, they tend to try to make new, good games and throw in Mario.

Wow, who is getting defensive. :lol:

BTW, I was also saying the exact same thing that there is a problem with game consumers now that want recognizable characters, or sequels or exact clones of popular games and it kills original games. I agree this is a major problem with the industry and thought I said that fairly clear before. I definitely think putting Mario in things like SSX and NBA Street fall well under the definition of whoring out Mario and were done just because previous versions had sold poorly on the Cube. EA did a good job with it, but it wasn't completely needed. However, Mario is like Mickey Mouse so its easy to see wanting to use the hell out of an IP that strong.

However, to be completely fair many of the Mario spin offs were built from the ground up to be Mario universe games. The Golf and Tennis titles were not something that could have been released as generic titles (or at the very least were never intended to). Mario may not have golfed or played tennis in the platform titles, but the elements of the platform game are incorporated heavily into the design of those games and it was things in the platform games that inspired all the sports games. Also the sports games were all made better by setting them in the Mario Universe. A generic arcade golf, tennis, soccer and baseball games would have been okay, but I thought the Mario elements made them much better. The soccer game is much better than Sega Soccer Slam for sure and I thought the Golf was better than hotshots, especially Camelot's GBA version. So there was a benefit from using Mario Universe other than just pure name recognition on the box. Same kind of situation with Mario Kart. DDR was released on the Cube in its regular form, but I don't blame Konami for trying a Mario version to attract a different audience and the DDR Mario again is heavily inspired by the platform titles and the history of Nintendo gaming with its music selection.

BTW, if you want to talk about whoring I 100% agree that Pokemon is the franchise we should be talking about. The GBA games are good, but man did Nintendo turn that into quick cash grabs on mediocre console titles and lots of crappy merchandise. If you want me to kick Nintendo this is one I will be first in line for, but I'm giving them a break on Mario because so many of the games are really good and more good games on the market is not a purely bad thing even if Jumpman needs to take a break and get back to platforming.

Pokemon though? Nintendo needs some ass kicking for that franchise. Pokemon Dash? Bastards.