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Mario is a whore!

Old 12-17-05, 05:34 AM
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Mario is a whore!

I was out shopping and when I was poking around the the videogame section it dawned on me that Mario is now a dirty whore.

Here's a list off the top of my head and I'm sure several are missing.

Super Mario Bros. -Main series
Donkey Kong
Mario is missing
Mario Golf
Mario Tennis
Mario Paint
Super Smash Bros
NBA Street Vol 3
DDR Mario Mix
Mario Baseball
Super Mario Strikers (soccer)
Dr. Mario
Mario and Luigi
Mario Kart
Mario Pinball
Mario vs Donkey Kong
Mario Party
Super Mario RPG

Now I'm not saying that these are bad games. Many are fantastic games. My point is why do they feel the need to drop Mario in EVERY SINGLE NEW SERIES!
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Old 12-17-05, 07:52 AM
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Brand recognition. In today's fucked up "mainstream" gaming world, you've got to have something people are familiar with to sell the game. It's sad, but true. I mean.. a fucking 50 Cent game?! Something is seriously, seriously wrong there. Case in point.. Sega Soccer Slam, nobody bought it. Now Mario Strikers (an update of Sega Soccer Slam) is selling quite well.
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Old 12-17-05, 08:19 AM
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Tell me about it. What I don't like is how Nintendo says they won't do a new Mario platformer until they have a new idea that will make the game innovative, but they have no problem sticking him into countless other games. I would have loved a sequel to Mario 64 or Mario Sunshine that was basically the same game with new levels, but they won't do that because the game won't be fresh or innovative. Yet, we're up to Mario Party 7!
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Old 12-17-05, 09:19 AM
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You know I might agree with you if all those games they are dropping him in were bad games. However, Nintendo has really done a great job of picking excellent titles to drop him into.

You have to look at it from Nintendo's standpoint. The GameCube struggled badly in 2003 and 2004 so they change strategy a bit and do these Mario tie ins with their own second party games and with 3rd parties like EA and the Cube is having one of its best sales years ever. Mario Baseball was a big hit, DDR Mario sold out and started an eBay craze for a short time, Mario Soccer is selling well, etc.

Maybe this is the fault of the marketplace and a generation of gamers that refuse to give new things like Killer 7 and Beyond Good and Evil a try, but I don't blame Nintendo for trying this if they at least make sure the games he is in will be good ones.

I guess that makes him a dirty whore, but he is also the hardest working plumber in showbiz.
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Old 12-17-05, 09:25 AM
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What next?

Halo Volleyball
Halo Soccer
Halo Fighting, oh wait he is in fighting already Dead or Alive 4
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Old 12-17-05, 09:48 AM
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Halo is $Uck in my Book.

Mod Note: Threadcrapping is NOT GOOD

Last edited by Gallant Pig; 12-17-05 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 12-17-05, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jtnguyen12
Halo is $Uck in my Book.

Wow, what insight you have... I think you should apply for the video gaming reviewer position here...
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Old 12-17-05, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by darkside
You know I might agree with you if all those games they are dropping him in were bad games. However, Nintendo has really done a great job of picking excellent titles to drop him into.

You have to look at it from Nintendo's standpoint. The GameCube struggled badly in 2003 and 2004 so they change strategy a bit and do these Mario tie ins with their own second party games and with 3rd parties like EA and the Cube is having one of its best sales years ever. Mario Baseball was a big hit, DDR Mario sold out and started an eBay craze for a short time, Mario Soccer is selling well, etc.

Maybe this is the fault of the marketplace and a generation of gamers that refuse to give new things like Killer 7 and Beyond Good and Evil a try, but I don't blame Nintendo for trying this if they at least make sure the games he is in will be good ones.

I guess that makes him a dirty whore, but he is also the hardest working plumber in showbiz.

I agree... if they are good games, and this ups the recognition to get more copies sold then its a non issue. Actually if it helps them continue to make good games to do some character placement, etc then I'm all for it. If on the other hand they were pimping him out in really bad games, that would be a real problem...
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Old 12-17-05, 10:07 AM
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The fact that slapping Mario on a title increases sales says more about the people who buy the games than Nintendo for making them.
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Old 12-17-05, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
The fact that slapping Mario on a title increases sales says more about the people who buy the games than Nintendo for making them.
Even if they are good games?

edit: I forgot you were the guy in the PSP thread. Forget it, I'm not interested in arguing with a Sony guy. I have, and appreciate, all the consoles.

Last edited by Demontooth; 12-17-05 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 12-17-05, 10:14 AM
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Mario is Nintendo. They are entitled to make as many games as they want about the little guy.
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Old 12-17-05, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Demontooth
Even if they are good games?
No one is going to dispute the popularity of DDR. But if Konami feels that they need to add Mario in order to get recognition on a Nintendo platform (where they have been sucessful on other consoles without localization efforts), then that is sad.

You didn't see Konami add Ratchet or Jak to the PS2 version, or add Halo characters to the Xbox version. This is because the game is good. The fact that they felt the need to add Mario to their title to get sales is... well... sad.
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Old 12-17-05, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
No one is going to dispute the popularity of DDR. But if Konami feels that they need to add Mario in order to get recognition on a Nintendo platform (where they have been sucessful on other consoles without localization efforts), then that is sad.

You didn't see Konami add Ratchet or Jak to the PS2 version, or add Halo characters to the Xbox version. This is because the game is good. The fact that they felt the need to add Mario to their title to get sales is... well... sad.
Just theorizing here ...

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of Mario ... think about him more like a 'Seal of Quality' than a any sort of improvement to a game. People may be buying games with Mario in them not to see Mario, but because they know that if Nintendo dares place Mario in the game, they feel that it is a worthy title. Remember, Nintendo makes some really fucked up "niche" games (soccer, tennis, golf, mario party) which most would dismiss on sight yet virtually everyone finds fun once they play. Mario isn't there to elevate the title, here's there to say, "trust us ... this game is good ... just try it."
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Old 12-17-05, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
The fact that slapping Mario on a title increases sales says more about the people who buy the games than Nintendo for making them.
This is not by any means an issue only with Nintendo gamers though, but gamers in general. Why do you think the PS2 and Xbox are flooded with GTA clones and FPS games? Its the same kind of thing. GTA and Halo sold well so publishers are trying to piggyback success by copying them. For your later comment I can only mention Jak X racing. Sony apparently thinks the franchise is getting big enough to spread it out more. The reason third parties are not going out of there way to add more Sony and MS characters to their games has a lot to do with the fact none of them are Mario. I don't think Daxter is going to pull in the attention of adding a Mario.

Last edited by darkside; 12-17-05 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 12-17-05, 10:57 AM
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Adding Mario to DDR? What's next, adding Disney characters to DDR or Final Fantasy? Oh, wait, that already happened. Put me in the camp that enjoys the Mario titles, as mentioned they have been very selective with the developers used in the Mario titles, so the titles almost overwhelmingly high quality and hit their target audience perfectly (younger gamers or casual adult gamers).
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Old 12-17-05, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
No one is going to dispute the popularity of DDR. But if Konami feels that they need to add Mario in order to get recognition on a Nintendo platform (where they have been sucessful on other consoles without localization efforts), then that is sad.

You didn't see Konami add Ratchet or Jak to the PS2 version, or add Halo characters to the Xbox version. This is because the game is good. The fact that they felt the need to add Mario to their title to get sales is... well... sad.
I take it you don't have any Nintendo devices because you don't like Mario? Yesterday I played Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga on my DS, came home and played Ninja Gaiden Black on my XBox, and then played Ratchet and Clank until 2 in the morning. I don't care who they put in what game, if the game is fun, I want to play it, it doesn't matter to me who made it. It's an awesome time to be a gamer, and limiting yourself because you don't like Mario, well, is just ignorant.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, you don't have to choose sides, you can have them all!

Last edited by Demontooth; 12-17-05 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 12-17-05, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by darkside
This is not by any means an issue only with Nintendo gamers though, but gamers in general. Why do you think the PS2 and Xbox are flooded with GTA clones and FPS games? Its the same kind of thing. GTA and Halo sold well so publishers are trying to piggyback success by copying them. For your later comment I can only mention Jak X racing. Sony apparently thinks the franchise is getting big enough to spread it out more. The reason third parties are not going out of there way to add more Sony and MS characters to their games has a lot to do with the fact none of them are Mario. I don't think Daxter is going to pull in the attention of adding a Mario.
Placing your character into many different genres is very different than having many games by different companies in a single genre. Come on, you know that. Why would you even say something like that? That would be like criticizing Sega for making a basketball game when EA makes basketball games.

Jak X racing is sort of an idea extention of the series, more than plastering his face on a game. Yes, its a bit of a face value thing (Jak X Racing as apposed to the previous Crash Racing games) but there is racing in the Jak series. There are plenty of missions in all 3 games which feature racing. Its not like Mario ever played tennis in the platform games.
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Old 12-17-05, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Demontooth
I take it you don't have any Nintendo devices because you don't like Mario? Yesterday I played Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga on my DS, came home and played Ninja Gaiden Black on my XBox, and then played Ratchet and Clank until 2 in the morning. I don't care who they put in what game, if the game is fun, I want to play it, it doesn't matter to me who made it. It's an awesome time to be a gamer, and limiting yourself because you don't like Mario, well, is just ignorant.
I never said I didn't like Mario. All I said was that it is sad that in order to sell a title Nintendo (or whoever is making the games) feels they need to have Mario in that game to guarantee sucess. A character doesn't add fun to a game - the game is fun no matter who is it in. A character adds familiarity to the consumer, which increases sales.
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Old 12-17-05, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
I never said I didn't like Mario. All I said was that it is sad that in order to sell a title Nintendo (or whoever is making the games) feels they need to have Mario in that game to guarantee sucess. A character doesn't add fun to a game - the game is fun no matter who is it in. A character adds familiarity to the consumer, which increases sales.
So do you have any Nintendo devices?

gotta go xmas shopping, discuss more later
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Old 12-17-05, 11:18 AM
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I think its innovative.

I really think that that opened the door for other franchises on other consoles to try something different with the characters that they have.

In the past few years we've gotten:

DOA --> DOA Volleyball
Jak and Dexter --> Jak X: Combat Racing
Ratchet and Clank -- > R&C: Deadlocked
... and a bunch of other character based racing and fighting and sports games.

Now I'm just waiting for RAW vs. SMACKDOWN: BASES LOADED!
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Old 12-17-05, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Demontooth
So do you have any Nintendo devices?
Not sure what this has to do with this topic, but yes. My NES is sitting right next to me with SMB3 in it. I might as well just glue it inside, because it is one of the best platformers ever.
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Old 12-17-05, 11:36 AM
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My kids are not into sports games but with Mario in it they'll play it. Heck they're playing Mario Golf, Mario Strikers and Mario DDR. They are asking me to buy them Mario Tennis and Mario Baseball because Mario is there.
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Old 12-17-05, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
I never said I didn't like Mario. All I said was that it is sad that in order to sell a title Nintendo (or whoever is making the games) feels they need to have Mario in that game to guarantee sucess. A character doesn't add fun to a game - the game is fun no matter who is it in. A character adds familiarity to the consumer, which increases sales.
Its obvious from your comments that you are not really familiar with the games and you are speaking purely from you normal pro Sony bias. What you are saying is true of games like SSX and NBA Street were Mario was tossed in as added value, but not really true of the others. The Nintendo published Mario sports games, the Mario RPGs, DDR Mario, etc were all designed from the ground up to take full advantage of the character and the world of Mario. Its not as simple as just tossing him in the game for a quick cash grab.

And yes putting Jak in a racing game is pretty much the same thing as putting Mario in a racing game, baseball game, soccer game, DDR game etc. If Jak does well in a racing game Sony will definitely consider branching him out to other genres as they want a mascot just as much as any company.

The EA titles are an exception as those are not Mario games in any way, but even Soul Calibur II tried the add an extra character thing on all three consoles so its not something completely new.

Mario has been a workhorse for Nintendo since Jumpman was created so really this is nothing new. If he is a whore so be it, but you have to love the quality of the Mario games and the 184 million units of Mario games that have been sold is an impressive number Sony and Microsoft would love to duplicate with a mascot of their own.
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Old 12-17-05, 12:26 PM
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I skipped the bottome half of this thread. But anyone who says Mario is just "slapped into the game" really has no idea what they're talking about.

Mario isn't just a character, it's a whole package, you've got the characters, the old school nintendo music, different types of gameplay such as powerups and such, but the icing on the cake is that the games ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY DAMN GOOD! If I buy a game with Mario in it I know it's going to be good based on my past experience with the franchise because Nintendo treats it with care. That's why they continue to sell. Of course there's the brand recognition too, that will never hurt.

but seriously, ratchet and clank 4, Crash Team Racing, it's not just nintendo doing this.
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Old 12-17-05, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by darkside
Mario has been a workhorse for Nintendo since Jumpman was created so really this is nothing new. If he is a whore so be it, but you have to love the quality of the Mario games and the 184 million units of Mario games that have been sold is an impressive number Sony and Microsoft would love to duplicate with a mascot of their own.
Glad you agree with me and the OP after putting up a resistance.

No one here is questioning the quality of Mario titles, though I suppose your pro-Nintendo bias makes you think that we are. The only thing that is being said is that Nintendo is whoring out the Mario name to earn a buck.

And how exactly is Mario DDR so different from every other DDR game out there?
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