Who gives a shit. Mario is a popular character and Nintendo takes advantage of it instead of making new, generic characters for their arcadey sports games etc.

I agreed with term whoring by the OP in my very first post BTW.

If whoring is the term you want to use I guess I will agree and no one wants to see original titles like Beyond Good and Evil, Killer 7, Phoenix Wright etc catch on more than me, but again how is putting him in a string of quality titles a negative thing again? That seems to be the point you are making and I'm having trouble with that. If they were dropping him in a bunch of poorly made shit I would agree Nintendo was ruining the franchise, but Mario Baseball, Soccer, Paper Mario, DDR Mario etc have been pretty good overall. The board games are average, but they continue to sell big and are good for what they are so Nintendo keeps publishing those as well.

Mario DDR, Baseball, Soccer, whatever is different because it is set in the Mario World using characters, storylines, music, abilities etc. No Mario DDR is not the same as the regular DDR games besides the basic play mechanics but Konami is always trying to put a new coat of paint on the franchise so a Mario version is not entirely a big departure.

You have also failed to explain why you have no problem with your beloved Sony spinning their franchise character off in a different genre. What you are doing in this thread is what you always do. Troll in a non Sony thread so you can piss people off and bash non Sony products. You add zero to the discussion as always. For your information I have a pro gamer bias not Nintendo. I have owned all three consoles this generation and most of the consoles of the previous generations. I have also owned all three of the major handhelds on the market. Something you can not say. I play games not hardware.

I will give all three companies credit where it is due and right now Sony has the best game on the market with Dragon Quest VIII another franchise that is popular and gets spun off into other things in Japan because of it.

He's got the whole NES collection on PSP ;).

I'm still waiting for Grand Theft Mario: The Mushroom Kingdom!

So far I like this answer the best and I can agree with it for the most part. There are very few games with Mario in them that I have disliked so I think it can be used as a "Seal of Quality".


I've noticed Mario in tons of games prior to last night but actually seeing DDR Mario Mix sealed the whole "Mario is a whore" thought process. I just pictured Mario dancing and some guy with a whip yelling "DANCE MONKEY BOY!".

Smackdown vs Raw on PSP has a WWE Poker game as an extra. That's halfway there.

I can't wait for Master Chief Teaches Typing of the Dead with Mavis Beacon.

Just ignore Joshd. Look at his signature, my quote has been there for like 3 years. When he has an opinion, he sticks to it. He loves Sony,and hates anything Nintendo or Microsoft. There is no point in having any type of discussions with him.

Don't be naive. It is not "sort of an idea extension", its a blatent copy of Nintendo's very successful formula or taking a super popular platform character series over to a kart racing genre. Sony copied it with Crash they copied it with Jak. Don't kid yourself. Hell, the "racing" parts of Jak (Which I loved by the way) were likely specifically positioned in order to position the series as a Kart racer later on. Was there racing elements in the first Jak?

Anytime a company can build up an IP it means money, and they will leverage it. I don't blame them for it, you shouldn't either.

Again, you are misreading what I have written, probably because of your pro-Nintendo bias. I never criticized Nintendo for whoring out Mario. I criticized people who need a Mario or some other recognizable character to buy a game. A game stands on its own, regardless of who the characters are. It shouldn't matter if Mario is playing baseball or not - if its a good baseball game, people will buy it. As a supporter of lesser known games like Killer 7, and Beyond Good & Evil, you should be supporting games standing on their own, regardless who the main character is.

The only thing I criticize, is people who automatically assume a game is not worth playing because it doesn't come from Nintendo with a Mario character. Would Killer 7 be any better if Mario was the lead character? No, the game is good with or without him. Would more people buy the game if Mario was the lead character? You bet. Millions more. That is the problem with the gaming market and I criticize the market for this, not Nintendo for recognizing the market.

But I do enjoy when the discussion goes on the defensive. Comments like "I own all 3 systems" or "Sony does it too" really do nothing for your arguement. I really don't care what systems you own, or if other gaming companies do it too. This was never about criticizing Nintendo, though you trying to turn it into that type of discussion is pretty pitiful. This was about the market needing a familiar character to sell a game. That is what I have been criticizing this whole time - not your precious Nintendo.

We need Mario:Miami and Mario:Special Victims Unit.

I'm not criticizing Nintendo so much as I am criticizing the consumer. And yes, there was racing in the first Jak title. And yes, Sony is trying to extend the franchise, but its not like he is being removed from his world. There was always racing in the world Jak lived it. I'll have to go back, but I'm pretty sure Mario never played Tennis on his way to rescue the princess. Again, not criticizing Nintendo, just the consumer that needs Mario to be in the game inorder to buy it - even if it really has nothing to do with Mario or the Mario World beyond similar characters.

Killer 7 and BG&E are multi-platform games, whereas the games that you say the big "N" are whoring are specifically for the Nintendo consoles. There is nothing that can match that on either the Sony or Microsoft consoles.

Look at the Sonic series. They tried with that. There were some crappy games that sold merely because they had that hedgehog on the front of the case. There were platformers, puzzle games, pinball, fighting games, heck, there's even a Tamogachi twist in Advanced Battle.

Though most of the original games were released solely for the Sega System and later the other three got a piece of the action. So I guess we can say that Sonic is a bigger whore than Mario, since he has more exposure to other consoles.

If you really want to fuel the fire, why not bring up things like Pokemon... all of those games are very specific towards a 'whored' character (i.e. Pikachu or Ash). We've got Pokemon [insert color here], Pokemon Stadium (1 & 2), Pokemon Coloseum, Pokemon XD, Pokemon Pinball, Pokemon Snap, Pokemon Channel, Pokemon Puzzle League, Pokemon Dash... and I could go on.

I have posted this article before but I think this is a perfect discussion to repost it. It is an article from Lost Garden on Nintendo's strategy in the marketplace.

http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/ninten...-strategy.html

Here is a quote from the article
Take Square for example, they release many different RPG's but all with the same gameplay mechanics for the most part. Nintendo tends to release games with the Mario title, but all different gameplay mechanics and typically in "new" genres. For a kart racing game they threw in Mario, for the MegaParty games they threw in Wario, etc.

I realize Nintendo whores out Mario, especially lately giving him to second and third parties for games like NBA Street and DDR. But for the most part, they tend to try to make new, good games and throw in Mario.

Wow, who is getting defensive. :lol:

BTW, I was also saying the exact same thing that there is a problem with game consumers now that want recognizable characters, or sequels or exact clones of popular games and it kills original games. I agree this is a major problem with the industry and thought I said that fairly clear before. I definitely think putting Mario in things like SSX and NBA Street fall well under the definition of whoring out Mario and were done just because previous versions had sold poorly on the Cube. EA did a good job with it, but it wasn't completely needed. However, Mario is like Mickey Mouse so its easy to see wanting to use the hell out of an IP that strong.

However, to be completely fair many of the Mario spin offs were built from the ground up to be Mario universe games. The Golf and Tennis titles were not something that could have been released as generic titles (or at the very least were never intended to). Mario may not have golfed or played tennis in the platform titles, but the elements of the platform game are incorporated heavily into the design of those games and it was things in the platform games that inspired all the sports games. Also the sports games were all made better by setting them in the Mario Universe. A generic arcade golf, tennis, soccer and baseball games would have been okay, but I thought the Mario elements made them much better. The soccer game is much better than Sega Soccer Slam for sure and I thought the Golf was better than hotshots, especially Camelot's GBA version. So there was a benefit from using Mario Universe other than just pure name recognition on the box. Same kind of situation with Mario Kart. DDR was released on the Cube in its regular form, but I don't blame Konami for trying a Mario version to attract a different audience and the DDR Mario again is heavily inspired by the platform titles and the history of Nintendo gaming with its music selection.

BTW, if you want to talk about whoring I 100% agree that Pokemon is the franchise we should be talking about. The GBA games are good, but man did Nintendo turn that into quick cash grabs on mediocre console titles and lots of crappy merchandise. If you want me to kick Nintendo this is one I will be first in line for, but I'm giving them a break on Mario because so many of the games are really good and more good games on the market is not a purely bad thing even if Jumpman needs to take a break and get back to platforming.

Pokemon though? Nintendo needs some ass kicking for that franchise. Pokemon Dash? Bastards.

***STRAW-MAN ALERT***

I'm not going to name any names but SOMEBODY drove the market so fucking deep into the drooling drivel of lowest common denominator mainstream that this kind of practice is just unavoidable in order to stay in business. Look at ANY top 10 sales chart for Playstation 2 or Xbox (or GameCube once you takes out the Nintendo titles).. what do you see? Shit titles based on Spider-Men, X-Man, Star Wars, A FUCKING 50 CENT GAME, a fucking game based on the fake life of a rapper idolized by stupid white preteen boys, games based on whatever Disney movie is out that week, games based on movies, games based on movies, games based on movies, games based on movies, games based on movies, games based on cartoons, games based on cartoons, games based on games based on something else.. The top selling game of 2003, Enter the Matrix, was almost one of the LOWEST RATED of the year. Nintendo is the easy target because they always use Mario.. but how is that any different than EA's entire library, not one fucking title that isn't based on a movie or sport, or any of the other publishers out there whose entire existence is based upon taking other ideas and making them into games?

So Pixy, tell us how you really feel. ;)

Could Pixy really be Vic Ireland? If you notice you never see them in the same place at the same time.

Something to think about. :scratch2:

I don't have too much of a problem with it - I thoroughly enjoy the MP series. My only gripe with it is that I'd much rather see a REAL Mario game - a true sequel to Mario 64 - one of the best games EVER in my opinion - would be a great start. Instead, we get 94304239702382 Mario sidegames. I don't mind, but I'd rather see them put their efforts into a defintive Mario game.

I have a pro-video game bias. So basically what he is saying is he doesn't own a gamecube, gba, or DS. So he really doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

As much as some say Mario is a whore, nearly every Mario game has been great (with the exceptions of Mario is Missing and Marios Time Machine).

Would Mario Baseball be good without the Mario theme? Yes. Is it even better with the Mario theme? Yes. Should Nintendo waste development time coming up with generic characters that won't be as good as the universe they already have developed? Hell No

So in the end your asking Nintendo to waste extra time to make a game that is just like the stuff that you can get on the other systems. It doesn't really make sense.

And for example the DDR mario game. I already have the PS2 DDRs but since they used the Mario theme and music in the game i might pick up a game that i never would have considered buying if it was just more of the same.

Normally I hold your opinions in high regard, but this statement to me reeks of an unhealthy bias as much as some of the others made in this thread.

While there are tons of shit games, and those sadly sell well, brand recognition does not always equal shit. For example, the X-Men Legends games have been rated well and loved by many, as have some other games based on movies, based on cartoons, or whatever. Simply using brand recognition does not mean the game will suck. Some in fact turn pretty darn good. Maybe those games aren't your thing or genres, but to crap on them just because they are not "Super Twinkle Sparkle Collector Fairies That Only Six People In The World Know About 6" does not automatically make them bad games.

I'm mostly defending X-Men here, and maybe some Star Wars.

I haven't ever really gotten into Spider-Man.

"Super Twinkle Sparkle Collector Fairies That Only Six People In The World Know About 6" might make a cool game. I do enjoy unknown or offbeat titles as much as most here.

Disney titles tend to be simplistic games marketed at younger children, this has been going on since games began.

I wholeheartedly agree about 50 Cent.

Newsweek has said not too long ago that Mario is the most popular character in the world over the likes of Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny. Does Disney and Warner Bros. license out their brands out to millions of companies, yes. If people want it, they should have it. Mario is Nintendo's statement and I think the reason why they are holding out on making a new Mario game like one in every few years now (I guess it has been 8 since Mario 64, most people don't count Sunshine as a true to form Mario game) and Nintendo probably just wants to make the most excellent game ever. I wouldn't doubt the controller for the Revolution was made just in mind for the new Mario game that has been in the works for years for the most part.