Michael Corvin

Exactly. If PS3 comes out at $399 with Blu-ray, the extra $100 is justified.

Where is the bonus in the 360 to justify the price? Remote? Novelty. Hard Drive? nuetralizes with having to have some sort of memory whether it be that or a memory card. Hi-def cables? Should be standard anyway. So it comes down to chrome trim and a headset. Well worth the extra $100.

Gallant Pig

The blu-ray drive won't play HD-DVD movies correct?

Adam Tyner

Nope.

Not sure how many people are going to back you up there -- sounds like you're taking your own preferences and baselessly extrapolating.

As of June 2005, nine Xbox games had sold over a million copies. Four of them -- including all of the top 3 best selling titles for the system -- were first party. As a side note, a fifth was exclusive to the Xbox, and a sixth was, for a time, exclusive to the console.

Josh H

Well, by suck I meant didn't sell well. You kind of make my point. They have 4 million seller first party games. How many does Sony have? How many does nintendo have? Certainly more than 4.

And it sounds like you're countin Halo 1 and 2 as first party games when those are second party games. Thus Bungie is going to get a decent chunk of those profits.

Thus MS can't make up money as easily on first party games as Sony and Nintendo can.

And who the fuck cares about HD-DVD? That format doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. From what I've seen more big studios have signed already on for Blu-Ray, and more will follow suit when the PS3 puts a Blu-ray player in millions of homes. HD-DVD is dead before it even begins.

Apollo

Josh,

I wouldn't make too many predictions on Blu ray. Sony has a annoying habit of creating dead end formats. Here's the list.

Betamax- I bought into this
Minidisc-They were slow in bring out the recorder.
Attrac-Why bring out another standard?
Magicstick- Good if you own their equipment.I don't understand why bring out Pro Duo? I'm sure the first gen could have worked in the PSP.

When it come to Sony pushing a standard I take a wait and see atitude.

Damn!! I was sure Beta was going to kill Vhs..

Adam Tyner

7 for Nintendo. Sony has a lot more, but it's a weekend, so I'm not at my office and therefore not quite bored enough to tally their million-sellers up. It's a big number, though.

I was counting anything published by the company putting out the console.

Of course, past failures (or at least, not-successes) don't necessarily mean that history will repeat itself with the 360, but I'm no good at picking out what'll be a breakout hit and what'll flop. The Xbox had a slew of great first party titles that underperformed, so if Microsoft can do a better job cranking up the marketing machine while keeping the quality of their games high, hopefully that'll translate to stronger sales. It's far too early to say, though.

The two formats are actually dead even in terms of support, split almost exactly down the middle re: current marketshare. I could rant at length about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD, but that's really outside the scope of this thread.

Michael Corvin

But none of those formats were pushed by a system that will sell 10's of millions of units. That is one reason why I think Blu-ray has the edge. On top of that BR also has Disney in it's corner. Not an early adopter factor, but in the long run what parent is going to buy a format that doesn't offer Disney movies? That will be a big swaying factor when both are sitting on a shelf side by side. I definitely don't think BR is a clear winner, but based on these two bits of info, BR definitely has the edge.

Gallant Pig

Neither format seems to be going away anytime soon. I'm not sure I'd invest $400 in a machine that only plays half the releases out there though.

Josh H

Well, a lot of us have said that we wouldn't invest $400 in a gaming machine period.

But you're right, in that having blu-ray isn't a huge factor in my decision on whether or not to get a PS3. It's the games and price that will decide whether I pick one up down the road after price drops.

But it is at least an added feature that the 360 doesn't offer with it's standard DVD drive, so that will give the PS3 at least a slight edge any many peoples mind. And maybe a large edge in the eyes of the people where are excited for blu-ray.

Josh H

Both excellent points. The size of the PS3 user base will give Blu-ray a huge early edge over HD-DVD.

And there's no reason to think the PS3 base won't grow just as rapidly as the PS2.

MS has shown nothing that has anyone other than hardcore x-box fans exicted. The E3 buzz was mostly negative with people complaining that the graphics weren't much better than what we have on the current consoles, and browsing gaming forums, the buzz about the $400 price tag is mostly negative.

That's certainly not going to entice many non-Xbox loyalists to shell out the $400 instead of waiting for the PS3.

joshd2012

Betamax - While not very popular in the home, a highly used format in the production area. They started phasing it out just a few years ago.

MiniDisc - Failure

Atrac - Worthless

MemoryStick - Worked out pretty well for them. The first generation had a limit of 256MB. The first 512MB Memory Stick was actually two 256 sticks with a switch.

Right now, it looks like Blu-Ray has the upper hand. In the past few weeks, Blu-Ray got support from Fox, Lions Gate, and Universal Music. While HD-DVD has announced either cancelling or slow down of releases, only one player in time for Christmas, and Toshiba (developers of HD-DVD) dumping a lot of money into Holographic Disc research.

her34

disney supported circuit city divx

Crizzar

360 games are going to be $60 apparently:

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4511397

Adam Tyner

I'm surprised to hear you say that with as much as you complain about prices. If the PS3 debuts at $399, that's one stumbling block that could keep it from being as widely adopted.

I wouldn't put any stock in that until you get official announcements from the actual publishers. Amazon has $59.99 preorders up too, but they're equally meaningless.

Grimfarrow

Strange how no one mentioned the latest Sony format: the UMD. Considering how it ONLY plays on the PSP, the incredible proliferation of the media is astounding. Just imagine, if Sony can take off with such a limited media, what would Blu-ray's launch be like tied to the PS3?

tanman

I really don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about the pricing argument.

Yes, inflation is the only way to compare what a console costs 20 years ago and now. But that comparison is so inaccurate as to be meaningless.

I said it before, it is ALL about the market demand. I think people are confusing inflation with demand. Inflation is an incredibly inaccurate method of calculating the average American's spending power. It mearly serves as a comparison to CERTAIN goods that are unchanged over the years. People always extrapolate this and apply it to things that won't work.

Gallant Pig

I know, it's actually pretty pathetic. Makes me embarrassed to be a part of this hobby really. Jesus christ, MS is making a $300 console for cheap people and a $400 for rich people. Don't want to spend $400? For the love of god get the cheap one. I'd rather choose between the two price points then have no choice at all (PS3). THe PS3 will be a fun console for sure, but the way people act around here, it's like there is a robot that comes iwth the 360 that comes alive at night and rapes little children and kills your dog.

ChrisHicks

I'm in for the 400.00 setup myself plus I'm looking forward to getting all the new zombie related games as soon as they're released.

fujishig

That's the 200 dollar version. If you don't want the robot to do that you need to cough up 300 or 400 for the upgrade...

Eh, I complain about the price, sure, but the hype will get to me and the 400 will seem like less and less of an obstacle as we get nearer to launch, I'm sure.

Superboy

They're not. Most people don't realize that consoles are sold at a loss. There are some exceptions, such as the GBA and the PSP - which is probably why their price never fluctuates. If you want greedy, go call Trip Hawkins.

Michael Corvin

Don't kidd yourself. There is a $340 version and a $400 version.

I doubt it with the PS3. You are discounting the bling factor that Sony has in their corner. You don't think that every episode of Mtv's cribs isn't going to show some some rapper showing off their theater and their copy of scarface right next to that shiny new PS3? Or Pimp my Ride will start putting 360's in cars instead of PS3's. Doubtful. The kids want whatever 15 minutes of fame rapper has in their home. Plain and simple.

Adam Tyner

No, I'm not; I'm not saying it won't sell well. I'm saying it won't sell as well. Add a hundred dollars to the cost of anything and sales won't be as high.

It's not that strange since the focus of this thread is neither the PS3 nor Blu-Ray. The potential similarities between the two formats have been brought up elsewhere.

If Sony packs in a movie, I think that could potentially be a huge benefit to Blu-Ray. The big difference between the two is that if you have the PSP, you have something vaguely similar to a portable DVD player. Anyone who owns it can take advantage. Blu-Ray only holds a substantial advantage to people who own HDTVs, and plus you'd have to train people who are used to watching movies exclusively on their DVD players to give it a shot. Packing in a movie would definitely be a step in the right direction, but I'm not convinced that just having Blu-Ray in the PS3 is alone enough to ensure Blu-Ray's success.

jeffdsmith

If Sony releases the PS3 with Blu-Ray capability, and only one good game for 6 months after its release, Blu-Ray demand will take off, consumers will have to justify their $400+ investment in some way.

Josh H

It will keep some like me from buying it. But the PS brand name is so successful that most people who love their PS2 will buy the PS3 at $400. And as I said above, having Blu-ray movie play back will be added incentive to shell out the cash for some as well.

Plus there won't be cheaper competition. If MS cuts the 360 price you can be sure Sony will match it. And, unfortunately, Nintendo isn't really a competitor with sony anymore.

But to be honest, I would be some what surprised if the PS3 didn't come in at $300-350.

1. As we discussed above they have a huge number of million plus selling first party series to make up mone on.

2. They have a ton riding on the success of Blu-ray. Pricing the PS3 to be a monster hit and get into 10's of millions of homes would win the HD format war for them.

Josh H

Exactly. For anyone it will be at leat $340 as you'll have to buy the memory card if you want to play any games. Maybe $320 if you're willing to risk losing your saves on a crappy third party memory card.

And for many, myself included, the backwards compatibility is a must (especially give the fantastic backwards support on both competing consoles next gen) so the $400 system is still the only option.

The $299 system ONLY exists for PR and to make it look like they're giving people a choice. If they'd at least pack in a memory card in the $299 system I'd give them some props for doing it. But without it it's just plain pointless.