I repeat....

Well, first off, let me just say that I do have quality information - but at the same time I can't give real specifics as to what/where or I'll soon lose that access I think you guys can understand that. So, believe me if you want to, or call me a liar. I'm fine with either. I just letting you all know what I see.

Sales for DS started to decline rapidly as soon as the PSP launch was announced earlier this year. When it launched, Sony somehow managed to put an unprecidented number of PSPs out there, which is very, very, rare for a launch. Since launch, Sony has managed to keep a steady flow of PSP inventory to stores. Everyone is seeing them in stock, but trust me, it does NOT mean that they are not selling. It just means that for once Sony is actually keeping up with demand. Remember, you can't sell what you don't have

There is a big difference between the DS demo pack and the PSP movie/accessory bundle. With the PSP bundle, you PAID for the extra stuff that came with it (trust me). PSPs by themselves don't cost $249. The demo pack was just that - a demo pack. No real cost associated with it, at least not compared to the stuff that came with PSP (carrying case, cleaner, spidey UMD, etc.).

I'm willing to bet, seeing current sales trends, that it will be a long time before PSP offers a truley free game or whatever with the PSP. They just don't need to as people are buying what's currently out there in droves. Nintendo needed to come up with the free Mario promotion to help stave off their slumping sales. As it stands now, about the only other thing they have been able to do to spike sales is introduce new colors, which is a short term spike at best.

When PSP comes out with a pink, purple or blue version, I'll be the first to come out and take my ridicule like a man

I have access to hardware, accessory, game, and UMD sales. I thought UMD would actually bomb, but so far everything I'm seeing has proven me wrong. The software support for PSP just cannot be argued - period. You may or may not like what is being released, but the size of the software library for PSP is and will be in the future superior to what is out for DS.

As for what it happening in Japan....just how does that relate to how each is doing here in the US???? I stated pretty clearly in my original post that I am only talking about US sales data, which is all I really have good access to. I too have seen the Japanese sales numbers and DS indeed is outselling PSP now. But it's not happening here in the US. In fact, it's just the oppisite. Two different markets, two different cultures, two different tastes. Xbox bombed in Japan, but did quite well in the US. Why didn't Xbox bomb in the US? Two different markets. Don't let what is happening across the Pacific cloud what is really happening in our own backyards.

Again since you can't back up any of your sales data I will dismiss it. I could easily make a new account say I'm some kind of insider and tell you the DS is outselling the PSP. You can't even give the smallest hint where you are getting your info from so it is pointless. It could all be 100% true, but I will wait until someone legitimate can back the info up.

I have no doubt the PSP is doing well in the US, but from what I'm hearing from people that work in game stores the DS is also selling well. From what you are saying the DS sounds like a total failure in the US and that goes against what I am hearing from game store employees and what I am seeing with my own eyes.

You could be 100% right, but I would hope we could get some info from somewhere to verify it. If Sony is destroying the DS this bad you would think they would have posted sales figures somewhere.

for what it's worth...
I work in a game store, and the PSP easily outsells the DS. I have not sold a brand new DS in months, yet we are always out of PSPs. We have over 25 used DS systems in the store, but only 1-2 PSPs, and almost all those used DS's were traded in to get a PSP I think the DS has a few (very few) things going for it...warioware, animal crossing, nintendogs. Thats about it. The PSP has good 'real' games, like Burnout, GTA etc. Kids like the DS simply because its Nintendo. It also doesnt hurt that it's $100 less. To us, the DS is considered a gimiick with a few neat tricks, while the PSP is a real gaming system...not to mention everything else it can do.

Another example..

The wealth of "real" games like those are the main reason I don't game much any more.

Josh, dearth means "in short supply."

Real games. For real gamers!

Oops, brain fart as I was doing two things at once. Meant wealth.

yeah, you know, real games...not 5 minute mini games

Really only Yoshi's Touch and Go fits that bill. Maybe Pac Pix as I heard the "glorified tech demo" complaint about it but haven't played it myself.

Games like Warioware and Feel the Magic are real games as they are collections of lots of mini/micro-games.

DS came out in November, PSP in March. Of course there would be more DS used then PSP, alot traded theres in just to help knock off the $250 pricetag.

I wouldn't call DS a gimmick. They are far more original new games then the PSP. Wow, I can get a downgraded console version on the go...for $50?!? AWESOME! Or I can get a DS game that has never been made before for $30....decisions.

I have both, and the ONLY reason I still have my PSP is for the emulators. PSP has way too many crap games/ports out right now. There hasn't been a decent game in months (besides Midnight Club 3, which has a longer loading time then PS1 games)...I'll pass.

Gaming has gotten so stale. If its not sports or killing it isn't a "real" game.

Yoshi's Touch and Pac Pix are only "five minute games" if you have no attention span. The point isn't to just go through the games, especially Yohshi, that isn't what they were made for. Both of these are more like oldschool arcade games where the POINT is to play the short games over and over again, just to beat the top score. I don't know how many times that point needs to be made. Perhaps it's because new gamers don't understand the concept that a game doesn't need to take 20+ hours for you to go through it, I don't know.

Even the A+ title, Meteos, doesn't last long if you just play a single game of that. Most games of Meteos doesn't go beyond 4-6 minutes long, if even that. The point of that one also is to get the top score, unlock stuff, and on and on.

I don't know about most other people, but for me games like this are perfect for handheld systems. It's great to have a game that is very involving and takes a long time to go through as well, but a well rounded handheld library will also include plenty of titles that you can play in quick bursts.

And as far as the PSP having more software, that's a crock. DS has the same number of titles out (and maybe a couple more).

"You may or may not like what is being released, but the size of the software library for PSP is and will be in the future superior to what is out for DS." Bull shit. I can play over 1,000 games on my DS right now-legally-no ROMS. And that whole "real games" thing, I guess I enjoy fake games. Ignorant Halo fanboy.

Beautiful, just.. beautiful. *teary eyes*

I totally agree and it's one aspect I'm worried about with the PSP. I'm a huge portable gaming whore because it's the perfect format for "arcade" style games. I take my SP to work with me and love that there are a lot of games that I can give 10-15 minutes on during a break or a dump. Mr. Driller, a few holes of Mario Golf or some Pac-Man or Time Pilot on the arcade compilations (I'm still pissed neither have high-score saving). Pac-Pix is freaking awesome and it's definitely got that feeling going for it where you want to get better and just go for the highest score possible. It's easily the game I'd most like to get a DS for.

Gaming as a skill is quickly becoming extinct in America (though online gaming is bringing that back I will admit, even if I'm not a fan of it). A lot of the little kids whose first system was a Playstation or Playstation 2 are conditioned on simply "beating" a game and not necessarily getting good at it. While that's not a bad thing per se, I am just a little bummed that that kind of attitude is quickly becoming the standard and that games where the object is to better yourself are ridiculed simply because they can be "beaten" in a small amount of time.

One of my main problems with games today is that many of them just flat out are not hard. We have two groups for the most part today: Games that are hard but just aren't fun & games that can take a while to beat, but even a chimp could do so if given enough time.

Back in the days of the NES, SNES, Genesis, etc... games were a blast, just flat out fun, but if you didn't pratice and work your tail off at getting good at the game, or even mastering it, the game would laugh back at you and kick YOUR ass (in a game like Punch Out, it really would laugh back at you!).

Today, even the really good games, are almost impossible NOT to beat. You can save games now at just about any point you want, you have unlimited continues, as many chances as you want, and all of that. Don't get me wrong, I love games like that also, I really do. It's great to go through a game where it gets to the point that it's more like you are watching a movie instead of playing a video game. That's a very unreal feeling, and it can be plenty of fun. The problem is that too many games are using that sort of setup. There aren't as many games out there that are truly hard as well as being really, really fun.

I'm not saying games like that do not still exist, that would be foolish. There just aren't as many of them anymore, and I miss that a lot.

boy, that castlevania DS game, too bad it's not on PSP, then it'd be a REAL game! and forget about kirby canvas curse, it has gameplay ideas i've never seen before. Gimmick!

The problem with Yoshi is there's one level per mode. Even with the old school atari games, while you were trying to get high scores mainly, you still cleared levels and moved on to new, more difficult ones. In Yoshi, you just replay the same level trying to get a better score. That got old fast. Can't speak to pac pix as I didn't bother with it as it didn't sound interesting to me.


I love that as well, as long as there's enough variety to keep me entertained. Warioware games are perfect as there's so many mini games to play and it takes a good long while to unlock everything.

But honestly, really the only reason I own any handhelds is to get the 2D games I love and that aren't available on the consoles as I still play my handhelds at home 99% of the time. I do like the wariowares to pick up when I only have a couple minutes. Though the DS has the added advantage of the touch screen to offer up gaming experieces that can't be had on consoles.

They are starting to put porn on UMD as well, I imagine that will increase sales (of both PSP and UMD) even more once those get more available.

Actually, the Yoshi 'level' is randomly generated. You won't play the same 'level' twice. I too wish it had difficult modes, but whatever, my girlfriend iis already addicted to it like crack.

Marathon mode is randomly generated, the main mode is the same everytime as far as I could tell before trading it.

But being random is useless in high score games as memorizing things and getting better is the key, and you can't do that if the game is random. It just needed several levels for each mode IMO.

I agree. But for me it's a plus. I simply don't have a 10th of the time for games as I did when I was a kid.

If all games were as hard as the NES/SNES era, I'd have quit playing years ago. I just don't have the time to "practice" anymore with all my work, grad school and social obligations and really don't have the interest since hobbies like working out, sports, movies and music have leap frogged gaming for me in recent years.

As it is I still play and try to avoid hard games and stick with the Zelda, Mario, Final Fantasy, and KOTOR's of the world that last for a long time, but never get frustrating. Perfect for my needs. I just wish there were more of these and less GTA knockoffs, dime a dozen FPS's and military games etc.

Damn, I think I'm going to sell off my DS to get a PSP. There aren't any killer games or anything for the PSP but the "gadget" factor and the stuff you can do to it makes me want one. I'm just not into these stylus games enough to want any or take it on any trips (stylus game in a car ride doesn't sound like fun).

Anyone know the best place to trade it in at other than Game Rush? Maybe Blockbuster?