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Why make a game in 720p?
The only reason I ask is that anyone with an HDTV can display 1080i. Not all can display or upconvert 720p. Is there any inherent demands that makes 1080i harder to program?
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I don't know of any TV that can display 1080i that can't also show 720p. By the way technically wouldn't it be downconverting since 720p is actually a higher resolution than 1080i.
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Originally posted by spainlinx0 I don't know of any TV that can display 1080i that can't also show 720p. By the way technically wouldn't it be downconverting since 720p is actually a higher resolution than 1080i. 720p to 1080i would be upconverting. |
Why not make a game 720p if you can? There are many of us who can take advantage of it. You could say the same thing about HDTV since so few people actually have HDTVs.
I hope the next generation supports 1080p across the board though. |
Originally posted by gross@iastate My Mitsubishi HDTV can't display 720p and I know there are other brands. All HDTVs display 1080i, so what Ginsu says, makes sense. Although 1080i would put more of a strain on the Xbox than 720p. 720p to 1080i would be upconverting. |
I've seen at least 3 or 4 people complaining about their Xbox games not working in HD and its always a problem with 720p. Don't know if its the fault of people not knowing how to configure their Xbox for HD or what.
Is it that hard to set up the Xbox for HD? |
Originally posted by gross@iastate 720p to 1080i would be upconverting. |
It is really easy to set up the Xbox for HDTV but ther are A LOT of tv's that do not convert 720p to 1080i. Mine included.
If you tell the Xbox that your tv supports 720p when in fact it does not, you will get sound but the pic is garbled(in games that support 720p). And now in the new Bond game you have to disable 1080i on your Xbox or it will not even do 480p! Weird I know. The only point I am making is that if 1080i is the default standard that all HDTV's support. Why do 720p at all? |
A couple years ago more televisions supported 720p. Newer HDTVs seem to have done away with it altogether, including upconversion.
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1080i = 540p therefore 720p is higher resolution for sure. Whether it is noticeable is another story. I to am for one format. 1080i is the way to go in the near term. 1080p is the future.
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ginsu, they(some developers, especially tecmo and team ninja) to proudce content in 1080i, but they said it makes the games come to a grinding halt, plus 720p will always looks inheritantly better than 1080i in such thins as sports and vidoe games due to the fast motion, that being siad, 720p to 1080 is in fact downcoverting
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Originally posted by edstein 1080i = 540p therefore 720p is higher resolution for sure. Whether it is noticeable is another story. I to am for one format. 1080i is the way to go in the near term. 1080p is the future. |
add shuki's name to the list with a TV that only does 480i/480p/1080i no 720p here :(
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This is from this link: http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/132/index1.html
The dominant format in DTV broadcasting is 1080i, which is the format that CBS, NBC, the new sports cable networks HDNet and ASCN, and the New York-area channel MSG use. The WB Network will soon join the 1080i fray, as well. ABC uses the 720p format, which delivers more frames per second and is better at reproducing motion, and Fox has occasionally talked about using it. Unfortunately, neither has done much HD sportscasting lately. |
Until 1080p comes out, the arguement of 1080i vs. 720p will continue.
I'm just happy my TV does 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i. |
This having to decide which format runs for different games sucks. It's why I don't even hook up my Xbox to my good tv. When I hook my Gamecube up it plays in progressive scan (Nintendo component cables) and I don't have to worry about formats-or wires thanks to Wavebirds. I just lay back in the recliner couch and take in the sights-and what a sight it is...
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Originally posted by spainlinx0 I don't know of any TV that can display 1080i that can't also show 720p. By the way technically wouldn't it be downconverting since 720p is actually a higher resolution than 1080i. 1080i is definitely not the same thing as 540p. |
It's strange because I notice a lot of plasmas native display is 720p including my friend's tv. It can convert 1080i though, although it has the problem that it only has one HD input, of 2 component inputs, and that input can't display a 480i signal which is a REAL annoyance.
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lcds, dlps and plasmas have native 720p. so my suggestion is that everyone buy those.
1080p would be awesome. my second suggestion would be to wait until those come out. ;) |
1080i, the i = interlaced.
So it wouldn't interlace a 540p (i.e., as noonan4224 stated)? Jeremy |
there's no such thing as a 540p.
noonan is correct in describing what a 540p would be hypothetically. |
Originally posted by jrutz 1080i, the i = interlaced. So it wouldn't interlace a 540p (i.e., as noonan4224 stated)? Jeremy |
Add mine to the list of 1080i only HDTV's. :(
Thanks to living in the middle of nowhere and not being able to mount a satellite dish on my apartment, I've yet to see a HD picture on my HDTV. |
Sorry to beat a dead horse but 1080i does equal 540p.
You can output almost anything to a HDTV set, as long as the horizontal scanrate is 31.5 Khz or 33.75 Khz (or 45 Khz if your HDTV can do 720p), and the vertical refreshrate is 60 Hz. (30 Hz for interlaced) Just like the old adage, "You can have it in any color, as long as it is black!". All HDTV sets can safely support 480p, 540p, 960i, and 1080i. If you are lucky enough to have a HDTV set that supports 720p too, then you can also do 1440i. Horizontal resolution is not important here, as the HDTV set can safely support any horizontal resolution (within certain restrictions, as will be explained later). 480p and 960i is 31.5 Khz horizontal scanrate 540p and 1080i is 33.75 Khz horizontal scanrate 720p and 1440i is 45 Khz horizontal scanrate The letter "p" stands for progressive scan (non-interlaced). The letter "i" stands for interlaced. What is horizontal scanrate? Scanrate is the number of scanlines generated per second. As an example, 480p is actually 480 visible scanlines and 45 invisible scanlines (vertical blanking interval, or the "sync" interval) for a total of 525 scanlines generated per 480p refresh. There are 60 refreshes per second at 60 Hz. This means 525 scanlines times 60, equals 31500. There you go, that's 31.5 Khz horizontal scanrate! You can do interlaced resolutions that have twice the number of scanlines as a progressive scan resolution. You can think of interlaced resolutions as being the same thing as progressive scan resolutions, except that every other refresh (this is called "fields") has the whole image offset downwards by half a scanline. So that the second 540p refresh "fills in the gaps" between the scanlines of the previous 540p refresh! So basically, two 540p fields combine to make a single 1080i image. At the same vertical refresh rate (per field), 540p and 1080i has the same horizontal and vertical scanrate - which means it is safe to do 540p on all HDTV sets that supports 1080i. As long as almost exactly the same number of scanlines are generated per second for both 540p and 1080i. The same goes for the other vertical resolutions. A few early HDTV's can only do 1080i and only 480p. In this case, do not attempt to do 480p or 960i with these HDTV's, unless you put them inside 1080i timings. (Letterboxing 480p inside 540p is a recommended workaround). Some HDTV sets are improperly advertised as being able to do 720p. BE VERY CAREFUL to make sure that this is done by the HDTV set, and not by the settop box! Some HDTV sets can only do 720p through a settop box (which converts 720p to 1080i). You should NOT attempt to try to use 720p timings. Use 480p/540p/960i/1080i timings instead with such HDTV's. Horizontal resolution does not matter - you can display any horizontal resolution on a HDTV set. Also, it is possible to display lower vertical resolutions by letterboxing the computer resolution inside the middle of a higher computer resolution! Like doing 1024x768i in the middle of a 1920x1080i signal. |
Well, I'll have to say it once again...540p DOES NOT equal 1080i. The info you just posted states that "two 540p fields combine to make a single 1080i image". A single 540p field (which would be the image sent from a DVD player, HD box ect...) is only 540 lines of resolution...hence 540p. 1080i equals 1080 lines of resolution. You would need two images of 540p to equal one image of 1080i. It's really not that hard to understand. Yes, they both do have the same scan rate, but that by no means makes them the same. One is 540 lines of resolution, the other 1080. Plain and simple. Also, there is no such thing as a 540p output anyway.
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Originally posted by jediwicz This having to decide which format runs for different games sucks. It's why I don't even hook up my Xbox to my good tv. When I hook my Gamecube up it plays in progressive scan (Nintendo component cables) and I don't have to worry about formats-or wires thanks to Wavebirds. I just lay back in the recliner couch and take in the sights-and what a sight it is... If you hook up your Xbox, it will always be 480p with the possibility of 720p. 720p is your choice. BTW Don't you have to "activate" 480p on GCN games using some sort of hotkey? |
Originally posted by Gallant Pig BTW Don't you have to "activate" 480p on GCN games using some sort of hotkey? |
Originally posted by jediwicz This having to decide which format runs for different games sucks. It's why I don't even hook up my Xbox to my good tv. When I hook my Gamecube up it plays in progressive scan (Nintendo component cables) and I don't have to worry about formats-or wires thanks to Wavebirds. I just lay back in the recliner couch and take in the sights-and what a sight it is... At least the new MX Unleashed game is 1080i on the Xbox so I do have something to eyeball. I just wish all the Xbox 720p games were 1080i. |
This thread makes me dizzy,
I dub this thread, the Official Nerd Thread! Congratulations. |
Originally posted by Outlaw This thread makes me dizzy, I dub this thread, the Official Nerd Thread! Congratulations. |
Explain to me the word D1, D2 and D4
What does that mean?I just a TV with D4 in Japan.Maybe that's 1080i |
Within the 18 ATSC formats that comprise the HDTV format in the US, there is no such thing as 540p.
The confusion here stems from the fact that timings for a 540p signal and a 1080i signal are similar. An HDTV display that can display a 1080i signal is also able to display a 540p signal, however, that is technically not a supported HD format. Some owners with a 1080i display that can't display a 720p image, yet want to display a progressive signal use 540p timings. That's what the page that edstein linked is describing. As for whether 720p or 1080i is better, it depends on who you ask. Personally, I'd choose 720p over 1080i and I would never buy a HD display that could not display 720p natively. I thought it was a stupid move for the ATSC to include any interlaced formats in the HDTV spec at all. In any event, the reason why most XBox games support 720p instead of 1080i is probably mainly because the frame rate would slow down too much at 1080i. My guess is that architecturally, the XBox can't render an interlaced frame. It can only render progressive frames and therefore to output a 1080i signal it's actually got to render 1080p video. That's 1920x1080 resolution at 60 fps, which is probably more than the XBox can handle with most games. Finally, Kumar, I'm not sure what D4 would mean in relation to your TV. Usually, D1, D2, D3, and D5 refer to broadcast quality digital tape formats. They are all standard definition formats, though, and there is actually no D4 format. So I guess what I'm saying is that I have absolutely no idea what a TV that refers to "D4" could possibly mean. |
540p is a common format in home theater pc (HDPC) circles. It allows you play DVD's at a higher resolution than 480i/p which normal DVD players use. Check out the www.avsforum.com for all the details for setting up such a system.
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Originally posted by Ginsu And now in the new Bond game you have to disable 1080i on your Xbox or it will not even do 480p! Weird I know. |
Originally posted by edstein 540p is a common format in home theater pc (HDPC) circles. It allows you play DVD's at a higher resolution than 480i/p which normal DVD players use. So, 540p does exist, but as has been said here a few times, 540p and 1080i are not the same. If they were the same, you'd have to say that 240p = 480i. Not the case at all. |
Just to muddy the waters even more, my mitsubishi has a 960i mode as well. This would be the equivalent timing as 480p.
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Originally posted by edstein Does posting in the Official Nerd Thread make one a nerd? I think so. :) ;) |
Originally posted by Josh Z Also, all Toshiba progressive scan displays upscale 480i and 480p signals to 540p in order to keep the same scan rate as the 1080i circuitry in the TV. So, 540p does exist, but as has been said here a few times, 540p and 1080i are not the same. If they were the same, you'd have to say that 240p = 480i. Not the case at all. Don't the newer toshibas support 720p native, though? They probably still upconvert 480 to 540, though. |
Originally posted by TeeSeeJay There isn't any HD content in 540p. It's 720p or 1080i. There are plenty of other options within the established scanrates, but none of them are HDTV standards. However, there seems to be confusion in this thread about what the 18 ATSC standards are. They aren't all HDTV. Only the above 3 are. The rest are all digital broadcast standards that can be significantly lower than high-definition. |
Why make a game in 720p? Sit back and let me tell you why. Have you every played Soul Calibur in 720p? OMFG...if you haven't be prepared to pee in your pants. The picture is so clear and crisp it makes some of my PC games cry like a baby. Not to mention in 60FPS with no drop in framerates. Nothing beats looking at those jiggles ....er I mean sword fighting at such a high resolution... OH the beauty of it! ;p
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