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Why make a game in 720p?

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Why make a game in 720p?

Old 02-23-04, 09:30 PM
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Why make a game in 720p?

The only reason I ask is that anyone with an HDTV can display 1080i. Not all can display or upconvert 720p. Is there any inherent demands that makes 1080i harder to program?
Old 02-23-04, 09:44 PM
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I don't know of any TV that can display 1080i that can't also show 720p. By the way technically wouldn't it be downconverting since 720p is actually a higher resolution than 1080i.
Old 02-23-04, 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by spainlinx0
I don't know of any TV that can display 1080i that can't also show 720p. By the way technically wouldn't it be downconverting since 720p is actually a higher resolution than 1080i.
My Mitsubishi HDTV can't display 720p and I know there are other brands. All HDTVs display 1080i, so what Ginsu says, makes sense. Although 1080i would put more of a strain on the Xbox than 720p.

720p to 1080i would be upconverting.
Old 02-23-04, 10:32 PM
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Why not make a game 720p if you can? There are many of us who can take advantage of it. You could say the same thing about HDTV since so few people actually have HDTVs.

I hope the next generation supports 1080p across the board though.
Old 02-23-04, 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by [email protected]
My Mitsubishi HDTV can't display 720p and I know there are other brands. All HDTVs display 1080i, so what Ginsu says, makes sense. Although 1080i would put more of a strain on the Xbox than 720p.

720p to 1080i would be upconverting.
No I really think that 720p is a higher resolution. 720 lines on the screen is greater than 540. It may not be a visible difference, but can anyone give a more expert opinion? I remember reading something to this effect in Home Theater magazine.
Old 02-23-04, 10:51 PM
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I've seen at least 3 or 4 people complaining about their Xbox games not working in HD and its always a problem with 720p. Don't know if its the fault of people not knowing how to configure their Xbox for HD or what.

Is it that hard to set up the Xbox for HD?
Old 02-23-04, 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by [email protected]
720p to 1080i would be upconverting.
Nah...
Old 02-23-04, 11:32 PM
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It is really easy to set up the Xbox for HDTV but ther are A LOT of tv's that do not convert 720p to 1080i. Mine included.

If you tell the Xbox that your tv supports 720p when in fact it does not, you will get sound but the pic is garbled(in games that support 720p).

And now in the new Bond game you have to disable 1080i on your Xbox or it will not even do 480p! Weird I know.

The only point I am making is that if 1080i is the default standard that all HDTV's support. Why do 720p at all?
Old 02-23-04, 11:39 PM
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A couple years ago more televisions supported 720p. Newer HDTVs seem to have done away with it altogether, including upconversion.
Old 02-24-04, 12:02 AM
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1080i = 540p therefore 720p is higher resolution for sure. Whether it is noticeable is another story. I to am for one format. 1080i is the way to go in the near term. 1080p is the future.
Old 02-24-04, 12:37 AM
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ginsu, they(some developers, especially tecmo and team ninja) to proudce content in 1080i, but they said it makes the games come to a grinding halt, plus 720p will always looks inheritantly better than 1080i in such thins as sports and vidoe games due to the fast motion, that being siad, 720p to 1080 is in fact downcoverting
Old 02-24-04, 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by edstein
1080i = 540p therefore 720p is higher resolution for sure. Whether it is noticeable is another story. I to am for one format. 1080i is the way to go in the near term. 1080p is the future.
I'm sorry, but this in incorrect. 540p would be a total of 540 lines of resolution being displayed every 1/30th of a second. 1080i is a total of 1080 lines of resolution, 540 of them being displayed every 1/60th of a second, and the other 540 in the next 1/60th of a second giving you a total of 1080 lines every 1/30th of a second. They just aren't displayed all at the same time as with a progressive image. 1080i is better. I have compared both.
Old 02-24-04, 08:08 AM
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add shuki's name to the list with a TV that only does 480i/480p/1080i no 720p here
Old 02-24-04, 08:19 AM
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This is from this link: http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/132/index1.html

The dominant format in DTV broadcasting is 1080i, which is the format that CBS, NBC, the new sports cable networks HDNet and ASCN, and the New York-area channel MSG use. The WB Network will soon join the 1080i fray, as well. ABC uses the 720p format, which delivers more frames per second and is better at reproducing motion, and Fox has occasionally talked about using it. Unfortunately, neither has done much HD sportscasting lately.
Old 02-24-04, 08:37 AM
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Until 1080p comes out, the arguement of 1080i vs. 720p will continue.

I'm just happy my TV does 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i.
Old 02-24-04, 09:19 AM
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This having to decide which format runs for different games sucks. It's why I don't even hook up my Xbox to my good tv. When I hook my Gamecube up it plays in progressive scan (Nintendo component cables) and I don't have to worry about formats-or wires thanks to Wavebirds. I just lay back in the recliner couch and take in the sights-and what a sight it is...
Old 02-24-04, 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by spainlinx0
I don't know of any TV that can display 1080i that can't also show 720p. By the way technically wouldn't it be downconverting since 720p is actually a higher resolution than 1080i.
There's a longstanding argument about the merits of 720p vs. 1080i. What it boils down to is that they each come out about equal. 720p is stronger in some respects, 1080i in others.

1080i is definitely not the same thing as 540p.
Old 02-24-04, 11:07 AM
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It's strange because I notice a lot of plasmas native display is 720p including my friend's tv. It can convert 1080i though, although it has the problem that it only has one HD input, of 2 component inputs, and that input can't display a 480i signal which is a REAL annoyance.
Old 02-24-04, 11:27 AM
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lcds, dlps and plasmas have native 720p. so my suggestion is that everyone buy those.

1080p would be awesome. my second suggestion would be to wait until those come out.

Old 02-24-04, 12:16 PM
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1080i, the i = interlaced.

So it wouldn't interlace a 540p (i.e., as noonan4224 stated)?

Jeremy
Old 02-24-04, 12:23 PM
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there's no such thing as a 540p.

noonan is correct in describing what a 540p would be hypothetically.
Old 02-24-04, 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by jrutz
1080i, the i = interlaced.

So it wouldn't interlace a 540p (i.e., as noonan4224 stated)?

Jeremy
A 540p image would be a TOTAL of 540 lines of horizontal resolution. A 1080i image is 1080 lines. The difference is progressive versus interlaced. I'll try to explain it the best I can. All TV's display images at 30 frames per second no matter what the quality. A progressive scan signal displays 30 full frames of picture every second (one every 1/30th of a second). An interlaced image is a little different. It will take the even number lines of resolution and display them every 1/60th of a second, and then the odd number lines the next 1/60th of a second. This produces 30 full frames every second, but they are being "interlaced" together. This can sometimes cause the image to look fluttery when the screen is moving. However, you can only really notice this when the image is a lower resolution...an example would be standard TV, or a VCR tape which is 480i.
Old 02-24-04, 12:36 PM
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Add mine to the list of 1080i only HDTV's.

Thanks to living in the middle of nowhere and not being able to mount a satellite dish on my apartment, I've yet to see a HD picture on my HDTV.
Old 02-24-04, 01:34 PM
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Sorry to beat a dead horse but 1080i does equal 540p.

You can output almost anything to a HDTV set, as long as the horizontal scanrate is 31.5 Khz or 33.75 Khz (or 45 Khz if your HDTV can do 720p), and the vertical refreshrate
is 60 Hz. (30 Hz for interlaced) Just like the old adage, "You can have it in any color, as long as it is black!".

All HDTV sets can safely support 480p, 540p, 960i, and 1080i. If you are lucky enough to have a HDTV set that supports 720p too, then you can also do 1440i. Horizontal
resolution is not important here, as the HDTV set can safely support any horizontal resolution (within certain restrictions, as will be explained later).

480p and 960i is 31.5 Khz horizontal scanrate
540p and 1080i is 33.75 Khz horizontal scanrate
720p and 1440i is 45 Khz horizontal scanrate

The letter "p" stands for progressive scan (non-interlaced).
The letter "i" stands for interlaced.

What is horizontal scanrate? Scanrate is the number of scanlines generated per second. As an example, 480p is actually 480 visible scanlines and 45 invisible scanlines
(vertical blanking interval, or the "sync" interval) for a total of 525 scanlines generated per 480p refresh. There are 60 refreshes per second at 60 Hz. This means 525
scanlines times 60, equals 31500. There you go, that's 31.5 Khz horizontal scanrate!

You can do interlaced resolutions that have twice the number of scanlines as a progressive scan resolution. You can think of interlaced resolutions as being the same thing as
progressive scan resolutions, except that every other refresh (this is called "fields") has the whole image offset downwards by half a scanline. So that the second 540p refresh
"fills in the gaps" between the scanlines of the previous 540p refresh! So basically, two 540p fields combine to make a single 1080i image. At the same vertical refresh rate
(per field), 540p and 1080i has the same horizontal and vertical scanrate - which means it is safe to do 540p on all HDTV sets that supports 1080i. As long as
almost exactly the same number of scanlines are generated per second for both 540p and 1080i. The same goes for the other vertical resolutions.

A few early HDTV's can only do 1080i and only 480p. In this case, do not attempt to do 480p or 960i with these HDTV's, unless you put them inside 1080i timings.
(Letterboxing 480p inside 540p is a recommended workaround).

Some HDTV sets are improperly advertised as being able to do 720p. BE VERY CAREFUL to make sure that this is done by the HDTV set, and not by the settop box! Some
HDTV sets can only do 720p through a settop box (which converts 720p to 1080i). You should NOT attempt to try to use 720p timings. Use 480p/540p/960i/1080i timings
instead with such HDTV's.

Horizontal resolution does not matter - you can display any horizontal resolution on a HDTV set. Also, it is possible to display lower vertical resolutions by letterboxing the
computer resolution inside the middle of a higher computer resolution! Like doing 1024x768i in the middle of a 1920x1080i signal.
Source: http://www.caseserve.com/ht/custom_r...ns_on_hdtv.htm

Last edited by edstein; 02-24-04 at 01:37 PM.
Old 02-24-04, 01:39 PM
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Well, I'll have to say it once again...540p DOES NOT equal 1080i. The info you just posted states that "two 540p fields combine to make a single 1080i image". A single 540p field (which would be the image sent from a DVD player, HD box ect...) is only 540 lines of resolution...hence 540p. 1080i equals 1080 lines of resolution. You would need two images of 540p to equal one image of 1080i. It's really not that hard to understand. Yes, they both do have the same scan rate, but that by no means makes them the same. One is 540 lines of resolution, the other 1080. Plain and simple. Also, there is no such thing as a 540p output anyway.

Last edited by Noonan; 02-24-04 at 01:42 PM.

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