Xbox 2 specs revealed !!!
02-03-04 | 01:12 PM
#26
Retired
Originally posted by flashburn
Developer's have taken advantage of it! There are a ton of games that let you play ripped songs from your harddrive (just like you stated). Just because you don't care to use it doesn't mean they haven't taken advantage of it.
Developer's have taken advantage of it! There are a ton of games that let you play ripped songs from your harddrive (just like you stated). Just because you don't care to use it doesn't mean they haven't taken advantage of it.
02-03-04 | 01:14 PM
#27
Retired
Originally posted by jrutz
And another reason - the Xbox is huge, as we all know. I still have my various consoles out and available in case I want to play an old game now and then. But the Xbox takes up so much space, it's almost impossible to keep that out with another console. I don't care if the Xbox Next is just as big - if it's backwards compatable, it's only one console I have to have out instead of two.
And another reason - the Xbox is huge, as we all know. I still have my various consoles out and available in case I want to play an old game now and then. But the Xbox takes up so much space, it's almost impossible to keep that out with another console. I don't care if the Xbox Next is just as big - if it's backwards compatable, it's only one console I have to have out instead of two.
02-03-04 | 01:20 PM
#28
DVD Talk Legend
The problem with backwards capability is that they would have to emulate the XBox because they are moving to a new processor and new video card.
also my gut feeling is that they are concernd about lawsuits if they copy thru emulation Intel or nvidia features.
They might not have a choice.
Of course I believe that many people will wait if they have to rebuy games or start all over again until the PS3 comes out.
also my gut feeling is that they are concernd about lawsuits if they copy thru emulation Intel or nvidia features.
They might not have a choice.
Of course I believe that many people will wait if they have to rebuy games or start all over again until the PS3 comes out.
02-03-04 | 01:32 PM
#29
DVD Talk Godfather
Another plus for backwards compatibility, NO SWAPPING cords behind the tv, reciever, whatever.
02-03-04 | 02:52 PM
#30
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From: Next stop, Earth.
Originally posted by jeffdsmith
Microsoft "owns" part of Apple folks.
Microsoft "owns" part of Apple folks.
No, they don't. You are referring to a paltry sum of $150 million worth of NON-VOTING stock which was sold at profit a long time ago.
02-03-04 | 02:54 PM
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From: Next stop, Earth.
Originally posted by joshd2012
Good point, except that Microsoft would have to pay royalty fees to nVidia while emulating the graphics card for the original X-box. Sure they can emulate the processor well enough, but paying to emulate the graphics card could cost them plenty (especially if nVidia wants to overcharge for it).
Good point, except that Microsoft would have to pay royalty fees to nVidia while emulating the graphics card for the original X-box. Sure they can emulate the processor well enough, but paying to emulate the graphics card could cost them plenty (especially if nVidia wants to overcharge for it).
02-03-04 | 03:33 PM
#32
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
The only specs I care about are reviewable copies of exclusive games. I don't care about technical prowess, I don't care about online capabilities since I will never use those, and I don't care about screenshots of upcoming games since they say nothing about how a game plays or even animates. Until a console is on the market with three or four triple-A exclusives available, it's not even on my radar. This is why I don't own an Xbox--the exclusives just weren't there in my opinion. Microsoft has more experience now, so I'll wait to see how many quality exclusives are on Xbox 2 before making a decision.
02-03-04 | 04:16 PM
#33
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Maybe is me. I think backwards compatibility is VERY Important cuz i already build huge games library on XBOX alreadyz (45 games & more coming soon).
I don't care is ATI cheap or how powerful XBOX 2 can be but without backwards compatibility I think PS3 is get all my $$$$$.
XBOX 2 without backwards compatibility is going DOWN hill again don't matter it lauch early b4 PS3.
I don't care is ATI cheap or how powerful XBOX 2 can be but without backwards compatibility I think PS3 is get all my $$$$$.
XBOX 2 without backwards compatibility is going DOWN hill again don't matter it lauch early b4 PS3.
02-03-04 | 06:39 PM
#34
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Originally posted by porieux
No, they don't. You are referring to a paltry sum of $150 million worth of NON-VOTING stock which was sold at profit a long time ago.
No, they don't. You are referring to a paltry sum of $150 million worth of NON-VOTING stock which was sold at profit a long time ago.
The same thing happened with once large enemy of MS, Corel. (2000) In financial trouble the company took an "investment" from MS. Since then Corel had made several choices that are favorable for MS, settled all previous legal battles with MS, and continues to be a "competitor" to MS, which is what MS wants the governments to see.
So you are right, MS does not in fact own Apple in any way legally. I did not meant to perpetuate misinformation. I just see MS as being like the mob, sure they will do something nice for you, but someday they will ask you to repay the debt in other ways then money.
02-03-04 | 09:08 PM
#35
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
My first thought is that losing backwards compatibility would be a HUGE negative factor.
But the more I think about it, how often do you really play PS1 games on your PS2 ?
My friends and I all answer that question; Never.
That being said, I'd still prefer for it to be 100% backwards compatible and keep the HD. But not having either would not necessarily be dealbreakers. The HD really isn't used that much, although I wish it was used more. Soundtracks are a total gimmick as far as I'm concerned. I use it some, but if it wasn't an option, I could always just play my own songs on my stereo, computer, boombox, etc
But the more I think about it, how often do you really play PS1 games on your PS2 ?
My friends and I all answer that question; Never.
That being said, I'd still prefer for it to be 100% backwards compatible and keep the HD. But not having either would not necessarily be dealbreakers. The HD really isn't used that much, although I wish it was used more. Soundtracks are a total gimmick as far as I'm concerned. I use it some, but if it wasn't an option, I could always just play my own songs on my stereo, computer, boombox, etc
02-03-04 | 10:54 PM
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From: San Antonio, TX
Originally posted by Trevor
My first thought is that losing backwards compatibility would be a HUGE negative factor.
But the more I think about it, how often do you really play PS1 games on your PS2 ?
My friends and I all answer that question; Never.
My first thought is that losing backwards compatibility would be a HUGE negative factor.
But the more I think about it, how often do you really play PS1 games on your PS2 ?
My friends and I all answer that question; Never.
It'll take a while to notice the difference in graphics between current generation games and next generation games. As it is currently stands, I feel that's there are very few games that max out the potential of the X-BOX.
Besides, if the X-BOX 2 and PS3 come out at the same time, the X-BOX 2 being backwards compatible could be a nice selling point for PS2 owners. Buy the X-BOX 2 and get access to the whole X-BOX library. Of course, if the PS3 is also backwards compatible, they'd have the same arguement, but there's a greater upside since MS has more potential PS2 owners it could reach vs. Sony trying to reach out to X-BOX's smaller numbers.
But here's another thought as to why compatibility would be great for who also own X-BOX 1. You'd essentially have 2 X-BOX and it'd be easier having system link games. Not too many people own multiple X-BOXes and it's annoying to have to drag it and the controllers around - it doesn't make for spontaneous gameplay. But if you already own the first X-BOX and bought the X-BOX 2 when it comes out, you could do Halo with 8-players whenever you wanted. Of course, you could always just go out and buy another X-BOX now, but it's really justifiable to do that.
02-03-04 | 11:41 PM
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Whoever in here need 3-5 system in your ROOM ?? I did sell off my PS1 and Replace PS2 (it workout perfect). Beside, Old System do have some AAA titles compare to new generation system.
That's the REASON why i plan to pickup PS3 whenever is coming out cuz PS3 is compatibility with all PS2 games.
If XBOX 2 have Compatibility with all XBOX games i will support them with all COST. If XBOX2 don't have compatibility with Xbox games is mean MS going down hill again!
Without Backward Compatibility no way MS XBox2 again the fight with Sony PS3.
That's the REASON why i plan to pickup PS3 whenever is coming out cuz PS3 is compatibility with all PS2 games.
If XBOX 2 have Compatibility with all XBOX games i will support them with all COST. If XBOX2 don't have compatibility with Xbox games is mean MS going down hill again!
Without Backward Compatibility no way MS XBox2 again the fight with Sony PS3.
02-04-04 | 12:34 AM
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Well I will take this all as just more BS to I see M$ tell it themselfs or better yet to I see xbox2 on the shelf. Man I remember all the shit about PSX2 and xbox before they came out talk about a load of BS that was flying around about both systems. Hell even Sony told alot of BS about PSX2. I remember Sony saying we can now make games that look like Toy Story. HAHA I still remember that old man head demo from FF The Movie. I also remember a game marker saying it's not about what we can do on PSX2 but what we can't do on it. A month later they was crying up and down about low memory and the fact it would be hard to program for the thing. So I think all the storys about the new systems are BS and even when the company's talk about it themselfs I take it as BS.
02-04-04 | 11:17 AM
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The backwards compatibility isn't huge for me, but the HD was a big attraction for the X-Box (At least for me). If they don't offer at least the option of adding one on, I see myself sticking to the PS3.
Any early word on some of the PS3 features?
Any early word on some of the PS3 features?
02-04-04 | 04:40 PM
#41
Retired
Here's another article on the backwards compatibility. The headline is very misleading though.
The Price Of Compatibility
The next Xbox will play current Xbox games. But Microsoft might have to jump through some fiery hoops just to make sure.
By Dean Takahashi, for Gaming Industry News
Microsoft is keeping many (most?) details about its next-generation Xbox console under wraps, but at least one of the choices that Redmond has made public is stirring a spirited debate. Will Xbox Next, as it's now being called, play games designed for the original Xbox? Your answer depends on who you ask.
Microsoft has kept mum about the next Xbox, except in two major areas. The company has announced that ATI Technologies will provide graphics technology for Xbox Next, while IBM will provide PowerPC microprocessors and Silicon Integrated Systems will supply a chipset. In choosing these companies, Microsoft appears to have broken its ties to previous vendors Nvidia (graphics) and Intel (microprocessor), which weren't as eager as their rivals to retain Xbox business by being the lowest bidder.
Jen-Hsun Huang, CEO of Nvidia, says his guess is that the next Xbox won't be compatible with the old one. "It's virtually impossible on many levels," he adds. "On an intellectual-property level. On practical levels, too."
When asked to explain (might this be sour grapes talking?), Huang says for cost reasons, Microsoft isn't likely to be willing to put additional chips in the box to ensure hardware compatibility. Moreover, he suggests that current Xbox games make use of Nvidia's proprietary graphics shaders and that Microsoft might have to license them to use them again.
Jon Peddie, analyst at Jon Peddie Research, supports Huang's position. He notes that Nvidia may likely have proprietary technology in its secondary Xbox chip, the media and communications controller, which handles functions like sound processing. That chip, perhaps more than the graphics chip, is likely to contain technology that Microsoft will have to license, Peddie says.
By contrast, Dave Orton, president of ATI, says, "It's not outside the realm of possibility to make a compatible Xbox." He didn't discuss specific products his company is making for Microsoft, but he says that if you just consider the timing (about five years) between the consoles, then Moore's Law dictates that the new machine will be eight times as fast as the old one. With such an increase in raw processing speed, Xbox Next should have plenty of horsepower to emulate the old games via software. That is, the new hardware will be fast enough to execute the old games even if they have to run through software translation.
On the processor side, Microsoft might have to employ its Connectix software to get the Intel code to run on the IBM PowerPC. That problem raises the prospect of additional costs and engineering efforts. "It's not a trivial amount of work," says Dean McCarron, an analyst at PC chip market researcher Mercury Research in Scottsdale, AZ. "It will be a massive task of integrating different technologies."
ARE THEY BOTH RIGHT?
McCarron maintains that both Nvidia and ATI are right to some degree in their interpretations. He thinks Nvidia won't be able to stop Microsoft from running old Xbox games in software on the new machine. And even if Nvidia does hold intellectual-property rights, it will not enforce them against Microsoft. After all, most Xbox game developers write their software to run on Microsoft's own DirectX application programming interface, not specifically on Nvidia hardware. McCarron also says ATI should be able to closely approximate the way an original Xbox game looks with its own rendering hardware.
On a business level, original Xbox emulation on the next edition raises options for Microsoft, but each carries some risk:
It could achieve partial compatibility through software that doesn't exploit some of Nvidia's technology, but that may mean older games won't look as good on the next Xbox. Microsoft can license either intellectual property or reuse Nvidia chips and incur additional costs above and beyond what it will pay for the IBM and ATI chips. Considering Microsoft lost more than $100 per unit on much of its original Xbox hardware, that doesn't seem likely if the company wants to make money the next time around. A software solution eschews most outside licensing expenditures.
It could risk broadly interpreting its prior deal with Nvidia by using Nvidia's technology and not paying for it. That would risk a lawsuit.
It could choose to simplify matters, forget about compatibility, and endure the wrath of consumers. This would be a big mistake, considering that Sony -- its main competitor -- benefited enormously by making PlayStation 2 compatible with the original PlayStation. Even if fans played original PS1 games on their PS2s for only a couple of months, the compatibility gave them a solid reason to stick with Sony. The last thing Microsoft wants to do is give existing Xbox enthusiasts a reason not to upgrade.
For Microsoft, these hard choices are the price of not working with the same partners. Any sane observer knows that Microsoft will do what it must to please its current Xbox consumers. In doing so, the company may learn that a low price can come at a high cost.
This article was originally printed in issue two of Gaming Industry News, Ziff-Davis' newly-launched industry-focused trade paper. Click here for more information about how to subscribe.
link: http://www.1up.com/article2/0,4364,1511179,00.asp
The Price Of Compatibility
The next Xbox will play current Xbox games. But Microsoft might have to jump through some fiery hoops just to make sure.
By Dean Takahashi, for Gaming Industry News
Microsoft is keeping many (most?) details about its next-generation Xbox console under wraps, but at least one of the choices that Redmond has made public is stirring a spirited debate. Will Xbox Next, as it's now being called, play games designed for the original Xbox? Your answer depends on who you ask.
Microsoft has kept mum about the next Xbox, except in two major areas. The company has announced that ATI Technologies will provide graphics technology for Xbox Next, while IBM will provide PowerPC microprocessors and Silicon Integrated Systems will supply a chipset. In choosing these companies, Microsoft appears to have broken its ties to previous vendors Nvidia (graphics) and Intel (microprocessor), which weren't as eager as their rivals to retain Xbox business by being the lowest bidder.
Jen-Hsun Huang, CEO of Nvidia, says his guess is that the next Xbox won't be compatible with the old one. "It's virtually impossible on many levels," he adds. "On an intellectual-property level. On practical levels, too."
When asked to explain (might this be sour grapes talking?), Huang says for cost reasons, Microsoft isn't likely to be willing to put additional chips in the box to ensure hardware compatibility. Moreover, he suggests that current Xbox games make use of Nvidia's proprietary graphics shaders and that Microsoft might have to license them to use them again.
Jon Peddie, analyst at Jon Peddie Research, supports Huang's position. He notes that Nvidia may likely have proprietary technology in its secondary Xbox chip, the media and communications controller, which handles functions like sound processing. That chip, perhaps more than the graphics chip, is likely to contain technology that Microsoft will have to license, Peddie says.
By contrast, Dave Orton, president of ATI, says, "It's not outside the realm of possibility to make a compatible Xbox." He didn't discuss specific products his company is making for Microsoft, but he says that if you just consider the timing (about five years) between the consoles, then Moore's Law dictates that the new machine will be eight times as fast as the old one. With such an increase in raw processing speed, Xbox Next should have plenty of horsepower to emulate the old games via software. That is, the new hardware will be fast enough to execute the old games even if they have to run through software translation.
On the processor side, Microsoft might have to employ its Connectix software to get the Intel code to run on the IBM PowerPC. That problem raises the prospect of additional costs and engineering efforts. "It's not a trivial amount of work," says Dean McCarron, an analyst at PC chip market researcher Mercury Research in Scottsdale, AZ. "It will be a massive task of integrating different technologies."
ARE THEY BOTH RIGHT?
McCarron maintains that both Nvidia and ATI are right to some degree in their interpretations. He thinks Nvidia won't be able to stop Microsoft from running old Xbox games in software on the new machine. And even if Nvidia does hold intellectual-property rights, it will not enforce them against Microsoft. After all, most Xbox game developers write their software to run on Microsoft's own DirectX application programming interface, not specifically on Nvidia hardware. McCarron also says ATI should be able to closely approximate the way an original Xbox game looks with its own rendering hardware.
On a business level, original Xbox emulation on the next edition raises options for Microsoft, but each carries some risk:
It could achieve partial compatibility through software that doesn't exploit some of Nvidia's technology, but that may mean older games won't look as good on the next Xbox. Microsoft can license either intellectual property or reuse Nvidia chips and incur additional costs above and beyond what it will pay for the IBM and ATI chips. Considering Microsoft lost more than $100 per unit on much of its original Xbox hardware, that doesn't seem likely if the company wants to make money the next time around. A software solution eschews most outside licensing expenditures.
It could risk broadly interpreting its prior deal with Nvidia by using Nvidia's technology and not paying for it. That would risk a lawsuit.
It could choose to simplify matters, forget about compatibility, and endure the wrath of consumers. This would be a big mistake, considering that Sony -- its main competitor -- benefited enormously by making PlayStation 2 compatible with the original PlayStation. Even if fans played original PS1 games on their PS2s for only a couple of months, the compatibility gave them a solid reason to stick with Sony. The last thing Microsoft wants to do is give existing Xbox enthusiasts a reason not to upgrade.
For Microsoft, these hard choices are the price of not working with the same partners. Any sane observer knows that Microsoft will do what it must to please its current Xbox consumers. In doing so, the company may learn that a low price can come at a high cost.
This article was originally printed in issue two of Gaming Industry News, Ziff-Davis' newly-launched industry-focused trade paper. Click here for more information about how to subscribe.
Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 02-04-04 at 04:43 PM.
02-04-04 | 09:50 PM
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I've enjoyed the jukebox feature that Xbox has very much and I would very much like for there to be a HD in the NEXT one, but the backwards compatibility doesn't really bother me since I'm used to hooking up the old SNES when I want a little Super Metroid action.
I think everyone needs to chill, I'm sure MS will give us what we want or better.
XboxNEXT is a long way from release and who knows, MS may find a way to link the XboxNEXT to utilize the processing power and memory of our own brains. Although that could have a negative affect on XboxLiveNEXT because those who ride the short bus could experience severe lag.
I think everyone needs to chill, I'm sure MS will give us what we want or better.
XboxNEXT is a long way from release and who knows, MS may find a way to link the XboxNEXT to utilize the processing power and memory of our own brains. Although that could have a negative affect on XboxLiveNEXT because those who ride the short bus could experience severe lag.
02-04-04 | 09:54 PM
#43
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At this point, I feel that backwards compatability is useless..
There will be Halo 3
Most likely another Project Gotham
Probably, another Dead or Alive,and a Ninja Gaiden as well
Sega should release more of its games on it too..
So, what's the point? Who would play Halo 1 over Halo 3? Or Project Gotham 1 over 3? Same goes for fighting games, platform games, etc.
Now, if the Xbox had LOTS of RPG's or arcade games, then yes, I'd love backwards compatability...
There will be Halo 3
Most likely another Project Gotham
Probably, another Dead or Alive,and a Ninja Gaiden as well
Sega should release more of its games on it too..
So, what's the point? Who would play Halo 1 over Halo 3? Or Project Gotham 1 over 3? Same goes for fighting games, platform games, etc.
Now, if the Xbox had LOTS of RPG's or arcade games, then yes, I'd love backwards compatability...
02-04-04 | 10:56 PM
#44
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by sararekuforever
At this point, I feel that backwards compatability is useless..
There will be Halo 3
Most likely another Project Gotham
Probably, another Dead or Alive,and a Ninja Gaiden as well
Sega should release more of its games on it too..
So, what's the point? Who would play Halo 1 over Halo 3? Or Project Gotham 1 over 3? Same goes for fighting games, platform games, etc.
Now, if the Xbox had LOTS of RPG's or arcade games, then yes, I'd love backwards compatability...
At this point, I feel that backwards compatability is useless..
There will be Halo 3
Most likely another Project Gotham
Probably, another Dead or Alive,and a Ninja Gaiden as well
Sega should release more of its games on it too..
So, what's the point? Who would play Halo 1 over Halo 3? Or Project Gotham 1 over 3? Same goes for fighting games, platform games, etc.
Now, if the Xbox had LOTS of RPG's or arcade games, then yes, I'd love backwards compatability...
Why don't we throw away the original Star Wars Trilogy because we have a new Trilogy.
Why don't we throw away Godfather II because III is newer.
Why don't we throw away the Old Testament because there's a new one.
02-05-04 | 02:08 AM
#45
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Originally posted by sararekuforever
At this point, I feel that backwards compatability is useless..
There will be Halo 3
Most likely another Project Gotham
Probably, another Dead or Alive,and a Ninja Gaiden as well
Sega should release more of its games on it too..
So, what's the point? Who would play Halo 1 over Halo 3? Or Project Gotham 1 over 3? Same goes for fighting games, platform games, etc.
Now, if the Xbox had LOTS of RPG's or arcade games, then yes, I'd love backwards compatability...
At this point, I feel that backwards compatability is useless..
There will be Halo 3
Most likely another Project Gotham
Probably, another Dead or Alive,and a Ninja Gaiden as well
Sega should release more of its games on it too..
So, what's the point? Who would play Halo 1 over Halo 3? Or Project Gotham 1 over 3? Same goes for fighting games, platform games, etc.
Now, if the Xbox had LOTS of RPG's or arcade games, then yes, I'd love backwards compatability...
Anyways, I do think it is a major plus these days to have backward compatibility. I really don't think the graphical leap will be as big this next generation, so the games from this generation will age slightly better graphically. It can be hard to go back to PS1 visuals. Plus it increases a systems available software immediately which can help when a system is just getting started. If I don't end up getting an XBOX this generation it would be nice to pick up the older cheap original games next gen. Plus I think it keeps customers loyal if they already have a lot of games.
One thing I would like to see continued is controller compatibility. Maybe it will never happen since they make good money off accessories, but unless there is a big leap in controllers next generation, I would like to continue using old controllers for my next console (especially the wavebird for my cube). However I do hope controllers will change drastically next generation, since graphics won't change that much, they really should consider new methods of input besides the traditional controller.
02-05-04 | 03:04 AM
#46
DVD Talk Legend
actually the biggest advantage of backwards compatibility is to reduce your buy in cost for the new console.
Sell your old XBox with a few older games to someone for $100 and you reduced the cost of the new console and you can still play Halo 2 till Halo 3 comes out the next year.
No backwards compatibility and you have to buy the console and keep both until you no longer want to play any old games again.
Sell your old XBox with a few older games to someone for $100 and you reduced the cost of the new console and you can still play Halo 2 till Halo 3 comes out the next year.
No backwards compatibility and you have to buy the console and keep both until you no longer want to play any old games again.
02-05-04 | 04:59 AM
#47
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Originally posted by gcribbs
actually the biggest advantage of backwards compatibility is to reduce your buy in cost for the new console.
Sell your old XBox with a few older games to someone for $100 and ....
actually the biggest advantage of backwards compatibility is to reduce your buy in cost for the new console.
Sell your old XBox with a few older games to someone for $100 and ....
I sold my 2600 with about 100 games many listed as 'rare' or 'extremely rare' now, for like $50. It would cost me hundreds to rebuy it all now, which I am slowly doing on ebay.
Same for my NES, Nomad, etc
I guess I don't regret the PS1 much because the PS2 is nearly 100% compatible (or is it 100%?), but I still prefer the nostalgia of keeping my old stuff.
02-05-04 | 05:10 AM
#48
DVD Talk Legend
Oh - and the Xbox 2 isn't going to be sold at some lower price point, so don't expect that. Perhaps these rumors came from the fact that they will be in a position to not lose heaps of money on each console sold this time around. Xbox 3 will be backwards compatable. This isn't such a huge deal - I mean, you couldn't play your NES games on your SNES or your N64 AFAIK... Microsoft did some 'research' and discovered that only 2% of people actually use the feature with the PS2 so maybe this is just a mountain out of a mole-hill situation. I'll probably buy an Xbox 2 eventually once the Xbox titles dry up and maybe I'll buy it right away if there's some really compelling titles (which I imagine will be the case). I'll also surely pick up a PS3. I can deal with 3 consoles in my living room... no problem. The thing is - the Xbox 2 will likely be something that's so cool, the fact that it won't play your old xbox games won't matter. That's their intention anyway.
02-05-04 | 07:51 AM
#49
Who says there is going to be a Halo 3? I thought Bungie confirmed that there wouldn't be?