Anyone else overhauling the PC for Half Life 2 and Doom 3?
09-10-03, 09:14 PM
#27
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The first benchmarks for Half Life 2 are out. ATI > Nvidia.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7826
Anandtech had this to say:
"You'll see my own numbers tomorrow night at midnight, but we've been given the go ahead to reveal a bit of information about Half-Life 2. I'll keep it brief and to the point and will explain it in greater detail tomorrow night:
- Valve is pissed at all of the benchmarking "optimizations" they've seen in the hardware community;
- Half-Life 2 has a special NV3x codepath that was necessary to make NVIDIA's architecture perform reasonably under the game;
- Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
- even with the special NV3x codepath, ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7. The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;
- ATI didn't need these special optimizations to perform well and Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor."
Deb, you need to upgrade the card. I'd reccomend the ATI 9600 pro at the bare minimum if you want good Half Life 2 performance. It will run you about $150. The rest of your specs are good.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7826
Anandtech had this to say:
"You'll see my own numbers tomorrow night at midnight, but we've been given the go ahead to reveal a bit of information about Half-Life 2. I'll keep it brief and to the point and will explain it in greater detail tomorrow night:
- Valve is pissed at all of the benchmarking "optimizations" they've seen in the hardware community;
- Half-Life 2 has a special NV3x codepath that was necessary to make NVIDIA's architecture perform reasonably under the game;
- Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
- even with the special NV3x codepath, ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7. The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;
- ATI didn't need these special optimizations to perform well and Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor."
Originally posted by GatorDeb
I have a P4 3.01 GHZ with 512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM. Where I hurt is the sound and video. I have an NVidia 128meg MX400 and on-board sound. Is this good enough to play HL2 and Doom 3?
I have a P4 3.01 GHZ with 512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM. Where I hurt is the sound and video. I have an NVidia 128meg MX400 and on-board sound. Is this good enough to play HL2 and Doom 3?
09-11-03, 01:18 AM
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Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
What are the odds that I'll get playable frame rates out of my comp? I'm running an Athlon 850 w/ 512mb pc133 on a raid setup with a GF4 4200. I have a Palamino 1700 laying around I've been meaning to stick in for the past 3 months but haven't bothered to yet. And I'm upgrading the hard drives from a pair of 40s with 2 mb cache to 120s with 8mb cache. I could probably throw in another stick of ram to up it to 768 mb.
Think that setup will be enough?
Last edited by keyed; 09-11-03 at 01:27 AM.
09-11-03, 02:01 AM
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I wouldn't go fo ra 5200 if really given the choice. It's equal to something like a Radeon 9200 and the only pay off is dx9 which they recommend you not using with the 5200.
You can get a Radeon 9600 pro for around 150 if you look around. that should cover you fairly well.. Hell according to the test they ran a 9600 would give you roughly the same look as Nvidia's best. Considering how prices drop for hardware like crazy I would hold off on upgrading to the last possible moment. at the very least wait till it goes gold. If it's delayed then even more time to let prices drop on hardware.
over all though this is not looking good for Nvidia
http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/...hmarks/001.htm
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa...art1/page3.asp
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7826
Nvidia's reaction
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa...art1/page4.asp
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1261770,00.asp
You can get a Radeon 9600 pro for around 150 if you look around. that should cover you fairly well.. Hell according to the test they ran a 9600 would give you roughly the same look as Nvidia's best. Considering how prices drop for hardware like crazy I would hold off on upgrading to the last possible moment. at the very least wait till it goes gold. If it's delayed then even more time to let prices drop on hardware.
over all though this is not looking good for Nvidia
http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/...hmarks/001.htm
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa...art1/page3.asp
Optimization Investment
• 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path
• Our customers have a lot of NVIDIA hardware
• We were surprised by the discrepancy
• ATI hardware didn’t need it
• 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path
• Our customers have a lot of NVIDIA hardware
• We were surprised by the discrepancy
• ATI hardware didn’t need it
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7826
Nvidia's reaction
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa...art1/page4.asp
This is NVIDIA's Official statement: "The Optimiziations for Half-Life 2 shaders are in the 50 series of drivers which we made available to reviewers on Monday [Sept. 8, 2003]. Any Half-Life 2 comparison based on the 45 series driver are invalid. NVIDIA 50 series of drivers will be available well before the release of Half-Life 2".
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1261770,00.asp
nVidia has been circulating its Det50 driver to analysts in hopes that we would use it for our Half-Life 2 benchmarking. The driver contains application-specific optimizations that will likely improve nVidia's overall performance picture, however Valve's Gabe Newell expressed concerns that some of nVidia's optimizations may go too far. Doug Lombardi of Valve has explicitly asked that beta versions of the Det50 drivers not be used for benchmarking.
09-11-03, 11:54 AM
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Just yesterday, Sept. 10, Gabe Newell (valve top dog) gave some absolutely stunning remarks concerning Nvidia FX cards and the HL2 game soon to be released!! All I know is that if I had just dropped ~$450 on a new FX5900 I'd be seriusly pissed!
http://www.techreport.com/etc/2003q3/valve/index.x?pg=1
"However, NVIDIA has claimed the NV3x architecture would benefit greatly from properly optimized code, so Newell detailed Valve's sojourn down that path. The company developed a special codepath for the NV3x chips, distinct from its general DirectX codepath, which included everything from partial-precision hints (telling the chip to use 16-bit floating-point precision rather than the default 32-bit in calculating pixel shader programs) to hand-optimized pixel shader code"
again, some simply staggering pics and comments there
http://www.techreport.com/etc/2003q3/valve/index.x?pg=1
"However, NVIDIA has claimed the NV3x architecture would benefit greatly from properly optimized code, so Newell detailed Valve's sojourn down that path. The company developed a special codepath for the NV3x chips, distinct from its general DirectX codepath, which included everything from partial-precision hints (telling the chip to use 16-bit floating-point precision rather than the default 32-bit in calculating pixel shader programs) to hand-optimized pixel shader code"
again, some simply staggering pics and comments there
09-11-03, 02:48 PM
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I don't know why folks would have dropped 450 on a FX5900 when they knew that ATI would have an advantage on the graphics side of HL2
09-11-03, 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
I don't know why folks would have dropped 450 on a FX5900 when they knew that ATI would have an advantage on the graphics side of HL2
I don't know why folks would have dropped 450 on a FX5900 when they knew that ATI would have an advantage on the graphics side of HL2
09-11-03, 03:08 PM
#36
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I can't seem to get to the Valve or the Steam websites at the moment, but I heard rumblings at the [H]ard Forums that once you hop online with HL2, Steam will activate and then you MUST have an internet connection present to run HL2 PERIOD. That means single player, LAN parties, whatever.
I know it sounds totally crazy and messed up, but someone posted comments directly from the Valve team that seemed to confirm it.
If I could get to the sites I'd try to find more info.
If true, I'm rethinking my HL2 purchase...
Edit: Here's the quote that is supposedly from Valve's main website "Projects" page, but like I said I can't connect to confirm.
I know it sounds totally crazy and messed up, but someone posted comments directly from the Valve team that seemed to confirm it.
If I could get to the sites I'd try to find more info.
If true, I'm rethinking my HL2 purchase...
Edit: Here's the quote that is supposedly from Valve's main website "Projects" page, but like I said I can't connect to confirm.
Steam is a broadband business platform for direct software delivery and content management. At its core, Steam is a distributed file system and shared set of technology components that can be implemented into any software application. With Steam, developers are given integrated tools for direct-content publishing, flexible billing, ensured-version control, anti-cheating, anti-piracy, and more. Steam consumers enjoy the benefit of starting their favorite applications within minutes of confirming their purchase. They can access their applications from any PC. They are no longer challenged to find the latest updates for these applications. And they no longer need to wonder if their device drivers are compatible with the latest software.
Once a Half-Life 2 product owner decides to go "online" with his game (either for product updates and patchs, or for "online game play" in multiplayer mode), this will enable the Steam component in that Half-Life 2 product. Steam itself requires internet connectivity to function, as it has to deal with online verification of the product's authenticity and key. Once Steam verifies these items it will check for any online-available content updates ( additions to gameplay, functionality, etc). After this point the product owner of Half-Life 2 will be allowed to continue with their single player or multiplayer activity.
Yes this does essentially mean that once Steam has been enabled (either through updates of the product or entering Multiplayer mode), that product owner will be required to have an internet connection present for Half-Life 2 (or other Steam enabled..) activities of any nature , be it single player or multiplayer.
The Steam Engine system is a revolutionary new way Valve is using to ensure product security as well as future content updates for Half-Life 2 and other future products.
Once a Half-Life 2 product owner decides to go "online" with his game (either for product updates and patchs, or for "online game play" in multiplayer mode), this will enable the Steam component in that Half-Life 2 product. Steam itself requires internet connectivity to function, as it has to deal with online verification of the product's authenticity and key. Once Steam verifies these items it will check for any online-available content updates ( additions to gameplay, functionality, etc). After this point the product owner of Half-Life 2 will be allowed to continue with their single player or multiplayer activity.
Yes this does essentially mean that once Steam has been enabled (either through updates of the product or entering Multiplayer mode), that product owner will be required to have an internet connection present for Half-Life 2 (or other Steam enabled..) activities of any nature , be it single player or multiplayer.
The Steam Engine system is a revolutionary new way Valve is using to ensure product security as well as future content updates for Half-Life 2 and other future products.
Last edited by Draven; 09-11-03 at 03:13 PM.
09-11-03, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Flay
Well, it may be the people waiting for Doom 3. Carmack has affliated with NVidia which supposed to perform slightly better than ATI in that particular game since it's a highly polished engine based on DX8 instead of DX9.
Well, it may be the people waiting for Doom 3. Carmack has affliated with NVidia which supposed to perform slightly better than ATI in that particular game since it's a highly polished engine based on DX8 instead of DX9.
Have you witnessed any of this while testing under the Doom3 environment?
"Yes. NV30 class hardware can run the ARB2 path that uses ARB_fragment_program, but it is very slow, which is why I have a separate NV30 back end that uses NV_fragment_program to specify most of the operations as 12 or 16 bit instead of 32 bit."
John Carmack
taken from here
09-11-03, 05:31 PM
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The steam question. it comes from this
STEAM will replace WON ID that takes place when you play MP games,
to play STEAM you need some online connection to verify the ID so in order to play LAN games you need to go through STEAM.. which requires you to have a net connection to verify it.
Single player wont be affected since you don't need to have a STEAM Identification there.
simple as that. I'm sure there will be cracks soon after to bypass this on lans
STEAM will replace WON ID that takes place when you play MP games,
to play STEAM you need some online connection to verify the ID so in order to play LAN games you need to go through STEAM.. which requires you to have a net connection to verify it.
Single player wont be affected since you don't need to have a STEAM Identification there.
simple as that. I'm sure there will be cracks soon after to bypass this on lans
09-11-03, 08:15 PM
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A new HL2 video has been released featuring the range of the Source Engine and it's DirectX 9 features.
It's freaking amazing! You can find it at the usual places: Fileplanet, Fileshack, 3DGamers, etc.
It's freaking amazing! You can find it at the usual places: Fileplanet, Fileshack, 3DGamers, etc.
09-11-03, 11:13 PM
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You guys think your video card is bad, I'm using a 32MB ATI Rage 128 Ultra. What the heck is that anyway? It came with this pc and works ok but i never played any games with it before. My other comp has a voodoo 3. Being out of the video card loop got me way confused, seems like everythings changed. The rest of my specs are good. Maybe I should get an ATI 9600 pro too 
.
.
09-11-03, 11:17 PM
#45
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Since when did you like FPS deb?
Since when did you like FPS deb?
If @#&$#$ Microsoft let Datel crack open the code and get an Action Replay going, that would be my console of choice.
09-11-03, 11:29 PM
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ah, so you don't actually like playing the game for the game itself, but for the cheat codes that come with it... I suppose you are the target audiance that the game shark was made for.
09-11-03, 11:35 PM
#47
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Well, there are games I like and games I don't like. If it has cheat codes and I want it, I buy it
I like FPS's when I want to have some mindless fun. My favorites are still strat RPGs.
I like FPS's when I want to have some mindless fun. My favorites are still strat RPGs.
09-12-03, 02:24 AM
#48
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Originally posted by GatorDeb
I love any genre I can get a cheat on
If @#&$#$ Microsoft let Datel crack open the code and get an Action Replay going, that would be my console of choice.
I love any genre I can get a cheat on
If @#&$#$ Microsoft let Datel crack open the code and get an Action Replay going, that would be my console of choice.
09-12-03, 02:26 AM
#49
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Golden Sun - 40 hours with cheats
Advance Wars 2 - 100+ hours with cheats
SMA2: SMW - 2 weeks of 3-5 hrs a day with cheats
I pick my games carefully
Advance Wars 2 - 100+ hours with cheats
SMA2: SMW - 2 weeks of 3-5 hrs a day with cheats
I pick my games carefully
09-12-03, 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by GatorDeb
Well, there are games I like and games I don't like. If it has cheat codes and I want it, I buy it
I like FPS's when I want to have some mindless fun. My favorites are still strat RPGs.
Well, there are games I like and games I don't like. If it has cheat codes and I want it, I buy it
I like FPS's when I want to have some mindless fun. My favorites are still strat RPGs.
Why? I'll never understand.