I agree with one of the posts that mentioned problems with the memory card for sports games, and that could very well be a reason that none of the sports games sell well at all for the GC.

If they would have included a Nintendo 251 at launch. This could have eliminated that problem.

Damn, you leave the thread overnight and you miss all the action. Anyway, regarding the online aspect, I'm not sure why so many people assume it'll take mounds of cash to setup? If you run an XBOX type service where the data goes through a central server then yes, MS has to pony up the cash for that infrastructure. But with Sony's approach, they have centralized servers for some games (SOCOM) and use peer-to-peer networking for other games (Midnight Club 2). The former requires a hardware investment from the developer but the latter is done in software with the PS2's working as "servers". Nintendo could easily have released their Network Add-on thingy and let the developers choose what to do (instead of a soft-launch with only 1 game, PSO, that required pay to play). There are advantages and disadvantages to both MS's and Sony's methods but the GC took the worst route which was not doing anything.

Not to say that online would have saved the cube, but it was another example of Nintendo going against the grain and suffering because of it. I mean Mario Kart online seems like a no-brainer to me. I know it'll have make-shift LAN support that you can trick into playing online, but it would have been easier and more popular if true online was built in from the start.

I think too much emphasis is place on on-line gaming being the problem with Nintendo. The issue is much larger than that. Nintendo needs to look at its image, who are they creating games for?

I hear alot about the profit Nintendo has made but has any realize that past profits were in the hundred millions. Yes, Nintendo has made and will make great games, but the market is constantly changing.

The way I see it the Japanese software developers has been sweeped aside by American and European software developers.

IMHO I would love to see Nintendo concentrate on creating gaming software for all platforms including PC(A market nintendo really should look at.).

that's your hang up pal, not nintendo's. they made an amazing game that you dismissed because you have an issue with the look of it. maybe you hate animation too, but thats not a reason for animators to hang up their pens.

I think Apollo hit on something that's very relevant.

Nintendo isn't doing anything "wrong" in theory. They are doing what Nintendo does best. Making a solid games only console and great first party games with it's stable of franchise chraracters. Unfortunately in this day and age in the gaming industry, that is no longer good enough. Third partys are now a huge factor, if no one of the most important factors, in the gaming industry. Sony got alot of key developers to play ball in the PS1 era and continues to do so. Microsoft is still currently learning how to get more third party developers in it's stable, but they are trying thier best. Nintendo has taken a hard line with alot of developers and it's rubbed certain ones the wrong way. And as we've seen with Sony, the biggest games for your console often do not come from your own company but from the outside. Like I pointed out during a previous post. Being a 30 year old, I have grown up with the Nintendo gaming characters. I still like them and would enjoy playing a few games here and there featuring them, but for me they are not the end all and be all of video gaming anymore. When I bought my PS2, I looked at the Nintendo GameCube library and I saw my old stalwart Mario. I said to myself "yeah I might like to play something with Mario in it, but let's see what's over at the PS2 end of the store". There was a lot more diversity in the gaming selection. Crime, stealth, action, platformers, sports, shooters..etc. Alot of game styles I couldn't find on the GameCube. So I think that's one of the things that people are looking for now in a game console is a diverse library of games. So I think what I said earlier about there being a shift away from the Nintendo style character based games is pretty accurate.

The online feature is great but I think it's something that you have to really look at carefully. Being online for the sake of being online probably won't be very productive. If Nintendo is going to really venture seriously into an online they are going to want it to be a quality online system with good games and not just an "addon".

I also think not having DVD playback is hurting them to a degree. Yes its a more streamlined machine, but people might be viewing it as a "lesser" machine. Just purely observational.

I really want to see Nintendo comeback strong. I hope they can do it.

Like I said, I do not care about what people say, I do not care about reviews, if *I* dont find a game appealing I am not going to bend over backwards to play it, just to "fit in" with other peoples opinions. Remember, What one person considers amazing, isnt necessarily the same thing as what you consider amazing.

Trust me I am not the only one that thinks that way. What I am trying to say is, all of GC 1st party games look like kids games. They cant really turn Mario into a more mature game, but they sure could have done that with Zelda. I can almost guarantee you more people would have bought, because the Zelda fans that bought Windwaker would have bought it, and people like me probably would have bought it also.

Yeah, they do need more games for thoughtful, mature adults. Like that Grand Theft Auto game. Not like that Super Monkey Ball game...I heard that the only thing you use is the stick on your controller! Ha ha ha...just right for toddlers. Those Monkey Ball games must be the easiest games ever.

Mario by his very nature is a rather cartooney character.

I agree somewhat on Zelda comment. I think they could have retained some of the old school charm of Zelda while updating his look making him more contemporary. After seeing Lord Of The Rings, I had this image of Link being more like a Legolas type character. This brave adventurer with long flowing hair, sword on his back, and bow over his shoulder. Instead I looked at him and said "He looks like he stepped out of a Tom and Jerry cartoon". I'm not saying the Zelda game should have been LIKE Lord Of The Rings, but the overall design could have stood some updating. Remember, you only get one chance to make a first impression. The impression the new Link made on me wasn't a very good one.

It amazes me that so many "gamers" are anti-Nintendo and at the same time they'd be the ones buying Nintendo titles if Nin went multi-console. It all seems like jealousy. I guarantee if any disbelievers came to my house and watched some real QUALITY games in glorious widescreen HD and saw these titles in action, I'd convert half to the "light side". My best friend NEVER owned a Nintendo made system. He owns one now. Especially after 3 PS2's crashed. I've been playing my same GCN since launch (it's purple) and I want another one. I so want to go J&SBSB on all the haters. They are the reason N is in trouble (even though they're outselling MS internationally). Oh well. Next time around I'll still buy Nintendo and people will still be whining. Whatever.

jediwicz, I wouldn't say people are anti-Nintendo (I know I'm not), but they are frustrated that the company wont learn from its mistakes and adapt quicker to changing market conditions. I'd love Nintendo games on the PS2 and XBOX, but I think it's great that they have their own console too. But they dropped the ball with the N64 and didn't correct all the issues when it came to the GC and that may lead to their demise. Who knows how long the GBA can bail out the dismal results of their home console business?

Please stop whining.

If GCN's result are dismal then MS is worse. They're losing money w/every console and w/Xbox Live. One of the reasons the PS2 sold so well is people were forced to buy another one after theirs crashed. It's a shame. I have over 30 GCN games and 22 are exclusive to the cube. People just don't know what their missing. I know I'm missing KOTOR/Halo/PDO for the box and GTA3/Gran Turismo/Final Fantasy (not anymore) for PS2 but compared to what I've played, I'd give it up for another go 'round w/Metroid Prime. I kinda want to see a thread started with what people own and which are exclusive. Then we'll talk.

Oh, come on!

What menaz said about Zelda and Nintendo games whether true or not is the same thing I've heard a thousand times and it is the center of Nintendo's troubles. I guarantee most of the PS2 and Xbox gamers have just that opinion of Nintendo. I don't agree with it, but I've heard it enough to know its a problem for Nintendo.

Image is what is wrong with Nintendo. The point has been nailed by several people. Nintendo is great at what they do, the problem is the American market has moved away from their style of gaming. It doesn't matter how good Zelda is if people dismiss it without even trying it.

They need to focus a lot more on the look of their console for the next generation, their image, and their approach to hardware and third parties needs a major overhaul.

The next console needs to use a standard DVD media that doesn't limit third parties, needs to have plenty of affordable storage (either by large memory cards or HD) so sports titles aren't crippled, needs to stay easy to program for, and needs a controller that works well for all kinds of games and is not made just with first party titles in mind. Good online support is also something that may be more viable in a few years.

In other words make things as easy as possible for third parties by charging the same fees as Sony and making the hardware as adaptable as possible for games. If they get the solid third party support Sony gets, then all the mainstream gamers they will bring in will also discover and buy the great first party titles Nintendo makes. The first party games should be a bonus for Nintendo owners and not the only good feature of the console.

The problem is, as stuborn and slow to change as they have been in their history, will Nintendo make a real effort to change their mindset for the next console? If you look at the N64 though, Nintendo did make some major improvements with the Cube. If they can just continue to learn from mistakes and evolve they may be okay.

I hate the whole "Opinions Are Subjective So You Cant Call Someone An Asshat Or Question It In Any Way" thing. I dont see too many people saying painting a house is fun or sex doesnt feel good. Just because its subjective doesnt mean it cant be wrong.

Nobody is going to have the exact same idea of whats fun, but if the whole world says [____] is the best movie/game/sextoy of the year and you disagree... youre probally wrong.

Thats the thing, nobody can tell me what to like or dislike. That is why we all have a mind of our own, so we can decide what we like or dislike. Since youre using sex as an example, I can continue on that. I have actually heard people say they dislike oral sex and dont enjoy it, when the majority will strongly disagree. Does that mean that person has absolutely no clue what they are talking about and maybe their body is "broken?" I dont think so, theyre among a minority that dislikes oral sex.

I sure hope no kid reads this and then go asks their parents "whats oral sex?" Sorry mom, sorry dad.

I may be among the minority that dislikes Zelda for being too "kiddie" but I am also among the minority who dislikes Grand Theft Auto, and hope that franchise stops at Vice City.

I am huge Metal Gear Solid fan, so wherever MGS goes, I go. It is heading to GC in a few months, so here I am, trying to get a GC before it is released. I am sure a lot of you disagree with me on that, but hey, youre entitled to your opinion also. Believe it or not, MGS being announced for the GC was much bigger driving force for me to buy a GC, than the super high praises games like Zelda and Metroid Prime get.

Exactly what I mean. They are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. And its OK for us to mock them.

Uhm how exactly did we get from Nintendo's business plan to oral sex?

You've never played the game! How do you decide what's good and what's not, by the box art?

Welcome to the Playstation Generation.

Actually, I would say that the latter half of the single-player Monkey Ball 2 is easily one of the hardest but most addictive games I have played to date.

Exactly why Nintendo needs more third party support for a broader range of games and therefore more people find a reason to buy the console. Personally for me the RE series was the system seller. Until RE4 comes out I'll pick up a title here or there, depending on price and what I like, but that series is what pushed me over the edge to pick one up. I purchased RE before I even picked up the cube, then RE0, etc. I have picked up a GB player in the mean time mostly for my son to play, and I'm playing my X-box mostly right now.

Wider range of quality games in various genres, will bring more people to purchase a Nintendo console. More system exclusives that people want will definitely sell consoles. And since Nintendo is not currently known for this, they will have to work to change their image to make people believe that this is the case, and they will have to back up that perceived image with good product, to keep people buying titles and the next gen of consoles, etc.

Because Joltaddict is an Asshat!!















hahaha, thats my new favorite word.

I blame Sockmonkey.

I know he hasnt posted to this thread. I blame him nonetheless.

Doesn't MS have a much higher attach rate, though, at least WRT third party releases? Looking at some multiplatform titles from NPD from June, the XBox often seems to be pushing out more copies than the GC counterparts. Many of these are lower profile titles, but still...

GCN HULK VIVENDI UNIVERSAL May-03 45,726 $2,242,041
XBX HULK VIVENDI UNIVERSAL May-03 72,876 $3,531,086
PS2 HULK VIVENDI UNIVERSAL May-03 185,067 $8,981,055

GCN ENTER THE MATRIX ATARI May-03 129,590 $6,433,430
XBX ENTER THE MATRIX ATARI May-03 358,932 $17,591,680
PS2 ENTER THE MATRIX ATARI May-03 810,507 $39,576,240

XBX DISNEY'S FINDING NEMO THQ May-03 33,975 $1,358,973
GCN DISNEY'S FINDING NEMO THQ May-03 50,743 $2,028,826
PS2 DISNEY'S FINDING NEMO THQ May-03 125,025 $4,901,066

GCN X2:WOLVERINES REVENGE ACTIVISION Apr-03 31,687 $1,525,319
XBX X2:WOLVERINES REVENGE ACTIVISION Apr-03 62,516 $3,022,473
PS2 X2:WOLVERINES REVENGE ACTIVISION Apr-03 151,511 $7,175,371

GCN NBA STREET VOL 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS Apr-03 68,787 $3,398,749
XBX NBA STREET VOL 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS Apr-03 180,343 $8,906,355
PS2 NBA STREET VOL 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS Apr-03 614,554 $30,308,370

XBX RAYMAN 3: HOODLUM UBI SOFT Mar-03 15,235 $556,954
GCN RAYMAN 3: HOODLUM UBI SOFT Mar-03 27,637 $1,041,840
PS2 RAYMAN 3: HOODLUM UBI SOFT Mar-03 41,637 $1,507,782

GCN MLB SLUGFEST 20-04 MIDWAY Mar-03 16,908 $596,415
XBX MLB SLUGFEST 20-04 MIDWAY Mar-03 20,293 $941,332
PS2 MLB SLUGFEST 20-04 MIDWAY Mar-03 95,502 $4,294,715

GCN VEXX ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT Feb-03 19,289 $745,402
XBX VEXX ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT Feb-03 22,734 $1,022,101
PS2 VEXX ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT Feb-03 39,803 $1,727,983

GCN ATV QUAD POWER RACE 2 ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT Jan-03 21,468 $649,240
XBX ATV QUAD POWER RACE 2 ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT Jan-03 85,823 $2,558,756
PS2 ATV QUAD POWER RACE 2 ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT Jan-03 95,369 $2,840,170

Also interesting -- look at the sales of Splinter Cell, comparing the PS2 to GameCube:

GCN T.CLANCY'S SPLINTER UBI SOFT Apr-03 47,540 $2,343,271
PS2 T.CLANCY'S SPLINTER UBI SOFT Apr-03 430,621 $21,168,450