When I originally said that no digital sound outputs was a big mistake, I wasn't saying that it makes a game less fun.

If a person has multiple systems and is thinking of buying a game that is on both consoles, and is capable of hearing DD5.1 or even thinks they will in the future, it most certainly will influence their decision. If a person hasn't decided which console to buy and is capable of hearing DD5.1 or even thinks they will in the future, it will most certainly influence their decision.

Anything that negatively influences sales of third party games that appear on more than one console most certainly affects you, even if you can't hear DD5.1 (unless you never plan on buying a third party game, but even then the console lifetime is arguably affected).

I would never buy a system because of multi-platform games having 5.1 on one and not on another.
I would never buy a system because exclusive games have 5.1 and progressive scan.
I would never buy a system based on specs, period.
Specs of a system don't sell for me. Games do.

Here Here!

That said, as a someone who ownes just a PS2, this has been a good 1st year for the Cube. The next generation of titles look solid, the price is still right, and it offers a unique niche compared to the PS2/X-Box. I'm inclined to think that I'll go with a Cube if/when I decide to pick up another system (That "no time to play because of work/social life" disease keeps me from doing it).

LOL, you guys are absolutely blowing me away here. I like this comment.

LOL!

You guys need to REVERSE your thinking or something. If I took you in and showed you Lord of the Rings on a black and white 13" mono TV and then took you in a home theater room with a 58" HDTV and full Digital surround and showed you the same movie in glorious color with blazing surround some of you would still say that it doesn't make a difference.
Point to be made is that BETTER graphics and BETTER sound DO MAKE GAMES BETTER. Anyone who does not agree with this needs to have their head examined. If you take Mario Sunshine and strip it totally to mono sound and to blocks with no textures the game would NOT be as good Why oh why this makes no sense to you guys is beyond me!
Can someone, JUST ONE PERSON, please tell me why almost EVERY game site on the entire web has a Graphics and Sound section on their Reviews? Can anyone answer this? Some of you probably can NOT so I'll answer it for you. It is because Graphics and Sound DO matter. Yes, believe it or not but some people DO read the graphics and sound sections and not just the gameplay. Somehow good graphics seem to correlate into higher scores too! Imagine that!
Here is another REALITY check for some of you. Why did the PS2 sell like hotcakes? HYPE on GRAPHICS abilities, sound, and DVD playback. The PS2 didn't sell millions due to great games! The GC has had more great games than the PS2's first year out with EASE and it has way undersold.

Ok, now let's here more people that tell me how they would play a good game of football with stick men while listening through a cup more than they would Madden 2003 or NFL2K3 if the stickmen moved identically and the commentators (though hard to hear) said pretty much the same things. Who will be the first to step up and trade in their Madden or NFL2K3 for my stickmen can't hear crap football title that plays identical to Madden and NFL2K3?

You guys have flipped this thing around and made it as if I said graphics and sound matter FIRST and I did NOT say that. I said that graphics and sound DO matter! They DO make a game BETTER! If you can't understand this then I have some swamp land to sell you.

Lastly, it is system POWER that allows the developers to create NEW gameplay and keep making games better. One look at Splinter Cell or Mario Sunshine would tell you guys that Graphics matter. This simply could NOT even be done without the graphic capabilities of the newer systems.

Please actually read my post before replying to it.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that most people don't own HDTVs or 5.1 sounds systems. There's really no point in arguing about this. It's all about the games anyway. I'd take a good SNES game over a crappy XBOX game anyday.

Well if the resident evil remake(s) on the GC looked and sounded the same as they did when they came out on the PS1 I doubt we would have been anywhere near as excited about it. I would suspect that most GC owners (inc myself) care more about quality graphics and sound than some here seem to think.

Chris

There you go avoiding MY point again.

The point is would you take a good playing snes game over a awesome looking and sounding version of the SAME game? You guys are acting as if good graphic and great sound equals poor gameplay. Am I the only one brave enough to say that the GRAPHICS in Metroid blow me away?

Again the argument isn't graphics OVER gameplay. You guys keep changing it no matter how hard people like myself TRY to clarify that we are saying they make them BETTER than if they had BAD graphics.

So, YES I will take a finely testured DD 5.1 copy of the same snes game over your old snes game. That is the argument.

I feel the same way about RE. That game just isn't as scary with crappy graphics. Most games don't benefit that much from having great graphics though.

Please read my post that is about 4 above yours.

This proves there is a God. Someone actually got it! Amen.... Anyone out there buy RE for the GC? The gameplay is almost identical so can you kindly tell me WHY you bought it when good graphics seem to be a demon amongst gamers here?

Also people need to remember that these systems are made with the expected lifespan of at least 5 years. I have a strange feeling that in 5 years the majority of gamers will have a 5.1 system or better in their home and it is a law that HDTV be put in place to a certain extend within 5 years. This isn't to mean that the world will change in 5 years but things do progress and that is the point of making new systems have LONGEVITY to last 5 years.

juiio: What's your point? That soneone might think they'll have those capabilities in the future? That's crazy. There's no way the 'average joe' sees himself having an HDTV anytime soon. Lots of (most?) people don't even have a DVD player yet.

Did I even mention HDTV or DVD in my post? No. You must have read the wrong post.

I think I need to look up the stats on DVD players. I think you would be very surprised by the percentage of homes that have at least one DVD player in them.

Another sign of changing times is BlockBusters. I read an article that said Block Busters expected to carry almost all DVD (not VHS) within 5 years. DVDs cost less to buy (typical VHS movie is $90 and DVD is $15) and they are way easier to store. Look around and you will see the shelves telling the tale.

juiio: OK. So your point is about DD 5.1? There's an even less chance of people having that than HDTV. Most people don't care all that much about sound. They buy the biggest TV they can afford and call it a day. This will all of course change down the road but it's just not an issue now.

Quoting myself here to say "You jackass, Metroid Prime owns!!!" Damn. Can I get banned for attacking myself?

Seriously, I think this game is worth buying the damn console for, I am addicted and not that far into the game.

Funny how one game can make me change my perspective, I am pretty satisfied with the Cube now.

That's actually why I don't like the RE games for the Cube. Aside from the graphics and sound they are the PSOne games for all intents and purposes.

The DPII on Eternal Darkness does work pretty well. You do hear crazy sounds coming for the left rear only or right rear only. It may not work quite as well as DD 5.1, but its pretty good. I play all my GameCube games on my surround receiver and the DPII is much better than its getting credit for. It certainly is far from useless. Metroid sounds very good and the DPII is used very well.

I don't think DD 5.1 was even an option for the Cube. Isn't the Xbox the only system powerful enough to do in game DD 5.1? I think Nintendo gave us the best though could and its pretty good.

No, that wasn't my point. The point was that anything that negatively influences sales of third party games will have an effect on you, even if the negative influence doesn't affect you directly (in the example, if you don't have DD5.1).

To be honest I agree with you, I'm after a more modern control scheme. Still a lot of people are listing it in their top 5 or so GC games, so read into that what you will .

Chris

The xbox was designed with 5.1 in mind, having special hardware included to aid in the decoding. Neither the GC or PS2 has this. It's one of the reasons for the great cost of the xbox. (For MS)

Its my understanding that the DPII on Gamecube games is actually mixed and encoded by engineers at Dolby itself, I think i remember reading it at IGN. When its turned up i couldn't distinguish it from DD, its kind of like the Coax vs. optic cable debate, most people can't tell the difference, although knowing its one over the other gives some people comfort.

I don't care about "most people" - I care about me... and I like DD5.1. I still think Dolby Pro Logic is lame, and while it's not my main concern and I agree that it's about the games - that still doesn't mean it's unimportant to me.

jeff, I did read what you posted about PL2 and what you quoted from Dolby's website... you think Dolby is gonna say "DPLII sucks and we're sorry."? I think it's a bunch of hooey, but I'm probably a little bit spoiled and a little bit closed minded about it. Hooking up RCA cables to my receiver expecting to hear 5.1 surround is something I'm a bit skeptical about. I've done it and perhaps it was the games we were playing, but it just didn't cut it as far as sound goes. Not for me anyway. That's cool that it's enough for "most people", but it's not enough for me. I never said that was the main reason I didn't get a cube - it's not even a reason at all - it's just one thing I didn't like about it.

(Unrelated to my point above, but I'm still curious)

What is more widespread, DPLII or DD?

DD came out earlier. It doesn't seem likely to me that a receiver would support DPLII but not DD, however I know that many receivers support DD but not DPLII.

I don't think people understand DPL2.

DPL was 4 channel -- L,C,R and mono rear. The four channels were encoded into two signals. The better your DPL decoder, the better separation. Think of it like a composite video signal.

DPL2 has 6 channels -- L,C,R, RL, RR, and LFE. Again, these are encoded into two signals. Apparently, the DPL2 decoders are really very good at separating the 6 channels from the 2 signals.

DD 5.1 has 6 discrete signal that never has to be processed. It's sort of like the difference between composite video with a good comb filter versus a component signal.

Regardless of how it is accomplished, the GCN is fully capable of discrete rears and LFE.

That said, DPL2 has one serious drawback -- unlike DD5.1, which almost anyone with a home theater has, DPL2 requires the purchase of a new receiver. This for a handful of games.

While I appreciate that you can have discrete surround, developers would be foolish to make such sonic cues part of the gameplay since you're really cutting down on your potential userbase. So while it's all nice and atmospheric, it's not really more than window dressing. And as many reviews of MP have made abundantly clear, you can still have moody atmosphere with mere DPL (not even DPL2).

And not only does GCN have progressive scan, most of the premiere games (SFA, SMS, MP, etc) support it. I don't know what TV you're using, but any good RPTV these days performs progressive conversion that looks almost idetical to a progressive console output. I'd much rather they started to regularly support 16:9 displays, something that even the XBox's premiere title (Halo) neglects.

I am not trying to say I'd rather have DPL2 than DD5.1, but please stop saying the Gamecube cannot produce 6 channel sound.