Not true. There isn't a digital output on the cube. The best you can get is DPL II.

I might not have made myself clear. It is more of their insistence on using a proprietary format (mini DVD) than the medium itself.

There were games that needed the full size (THPS3, Resident Evil). Heck, Metal Gear Solid on the Xbox supposedly fills a dual layer DVD! If that were on the GCN you probably need a 5 disc set.

Just use standard DVD with digital outputs and be done with it! Just one in a long line of dumb production ideas by the big N.

I barley mentioned my biggest pet peeve, the memory card, 1985 block system. After everyone buys the paltry 4mb version, they release the 8mb one. Guess what, the same day a game is released that fills it! (NCAA2003) This never happened with the PS2. It was a long time before I needed to look for another mem card.

And where is the Memory Card reader that was promised at launch? I guess they want to sell off the 4 and 8 mb version before letting you use 128meg cards.

Doug

I wouldn't judge a system by lack of DVD support (who watches movies through a game console? Get a real player, will ya?) or digital sound (I doubt that the majority of game players connect their consoles to a surround sound reciever that supports DD5.1 or DTS anyway).

I'm a Nintendo fanboy from the 80's, and I admit the GameCube isn't perfect, but the amount of exclusive games alone is worth buying it. And I'm sure when Metroid Prime (and maybe even the new Zelda) come out, they will be worth picking up the GC alone.

You're right. But Metroid Prime doesn't have the multiplayer aspect of Metroid 64 so it has less replay value.

I couldnt' be happier with the cube. It's the only of the big 3 I own, because of my past love for Nintendo I figured it's the first I should own. I do consider getting an xbox everyday since that package came out though.

I would want the system for MonkeyBall, and Mario Party alone.

My Top 5 of the games I've owned and/or played is:

1. Monkey Ball 1
2. Monkey Ball 2 (Yes, I like the monkeys)
3. Pikmin
4. BomberMan Generation (I think I"m the only one who enjoyed this. Fun but a bit to easy)
5. Eternal Darkness (even with it's repetive nature, it was a great idea, fun fighting system, and the effects were very cool)

Dissapointments to me:

1. Super Smash Brothers (Just didn't seem nearly as fun as the first to me)
2. Super Mario Sunshine (Mario 64 it's not. Still a decent game)
3. Resident Evil (This may because I cannot stand the controls to andy RE games)

I couldn't be much happier, unless of course I had more money I would let myself put to games.

It doesn't bother me in the least that the GC can't play DVD's and doesn't have digital sound. I don't need yet another DVD player in my room(already have two), and the sound is fine as it is. I don't even have a 5.1 system, and not even thinking of getting one for years. Besides, it still amazes me how much power they are able to pump out of the Cube, as small as it is.

Exactly, I would think that most people posting to the "DVD Talk Forum" have a stand alone DVD player.......

No dvd player dosnt bother me at all. Im buying it for a game system not for another dvd player.

Until recently the only new system i owned was gamecube but it has a lot of games i love playing

Godzillaestroy all monsters
Wrestlemania XVIII
Rogue Squad
Nascar Thunder
Super Monkey Ball

Every system has some bad games and those i trade but it still has a nice group of games i like to play.



Then i picked up a xbox and im happy with it also

Shenmue II
Buffy
Rocky
NFL2k3
Crazy Taxi 3


There are a lot of others games coming out for both systems but my wallet can only handle so manY DVD's/games

HELLO!!! Are you guys not reading the post or just not getting it?

Doug said,
and then

What don't you guys understand. He isn't saying he wants another DVD player. He is saying that the DVD is a GOOD medium that Nintendo ONCE AGAIN chose NOT to go with just as they chose Carts over CDs and that was another HORRIBLE decision.
Heck, the Carts thing is one of the huge pitfalls of the N64! I have to agree with Doug 100% on both accounts. It is typical Nintendo to have to be different even though it COST the value of the games. Just like with Carts, though not as bad, we are already seeing some games having speech cut down and other stuff so things will fit on these freaking mini discs and we have many games on 2 discs when they wouldn't need to be.
Now to the sound. Man I have to tell you guys that we are past the year 2000 and MANY non theater enthusiests HAVE DD 5.1 SOUND. You can buy a cheap 5.1 system package for almost nothing now so what makes you guys think people won't use it? You guys need to play Ghost Recon, Halo, Mech Assault or various other Xbox games and realize how big a factor sound could play. when I shoot the grenade launcher in GR it makes my sub shake the walls and this is great!
Now, before you guys say that Nintendo did all of this just for Piracy let me go ahead and say I don't buy that for a minute. The claimed the same thing with carts but ask the developers who had to spend the MILLIONS in royalties to Nintendo why they think Nintendo went with the Cart format. Heck, Nintendo said it was to reduce loading yet they didn't put a HD along with their mini disc for the GC. Do they now not care about loading at all when at one time it was all they could talk about?

Anyway, you guys read what he said so you will realize he is NOT talking about wanting yet another DVD player.

I own all 3 and it is important that the GameCube make a big bang this holiday season...because after Zelda the system is one again in La-La Land it seems. Yep, you have Mario Kart and F-Zero coming, but those are not going to be major sellers on the level of Mario, Metroid or Zelda.

I could care less that it is not DVD based, but the neglection of a Digtal output is just wrong. And Dolby Pro Logic II is NOT a digital output. Do you have an optical cord going from your GameCube to your receiver or is it connected by standard RCA jacks? Thought so. DPL II is just a neat way of taking the rear soundstage and separating them into two distinct channels instead of one. They love to say that DPL II is just as good as Dolby Digital, but it really isn't.

Overall this has been a good year for all consoles, especially the new ones. The PS2 does not have as many huge titles as it had last year around the holidays and the X-Box does not have the number of holiday titles they had originally intended (Panzer Dragoon, Brute Force, Fable, etc. have all been moved to 2003).

I would argue that GameCube has the best holiday releases with the notable exception of X-Box Live games. The fact is Live is not going to have the penetration of a Metroid Prime or a Super Mario Sunshine though.

Microsoft has trumped Nintendo in the offering of a fantastic bundle deal and they might end up being #2 instead of Nintendo.

Anyway, I've gotten off-topic. For the year I would say it goes like this:

1. Metroid Prime (from the hours I have played so far)
2. Super Mario Sunshine
3. Eternal Darkness
4. Pikmin
5. Super Monkey Ball
6. Super Monkey Ball 2
7. StarFox Adventures
8. Resident Evil (even though I hate the controls)
9. Resident Evil 0 (ditto)
10. Animal Crossing (the truly innovative game, although I am not much into it)

Actually isnt gamecube a dvd type cd its just smaller then a normal dvd?

I have an XBOX and a GameCube and the fact that they're both video game consoles is where the comparison ends. Nintendo wants the GameCube to be a simple yet powerful gaming platform and I don't think they're real concerned with keeping up with Microsoft or Sony.

Nintendo has earned a loyal following over the years and the company seems more than happy to do their own thing........

Which games? Name them.Many? I count TWO: Resident Evil 0 & 1, and the disc switch in those games is no big deal.It does reduce load times. By a HUGE factor compared to the PS2.

How does it cost the value of the games? The games look better than PS2 games, and in some respects better than XBox. The sound is fine on my surround system, and my sub rattles the entire house which makes my family complain often. Load times are shorter than PS2. How do we have "many games on mini-disc"? Only multi-disc games I know of for the GC are Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0. Out of over 200 games, I wouldn't exactly call two "many".
In other words - I see no problem with the GameCube.

You mean Metroid 64, Pikmin 64, Eternal Darkness 64 and Luigi's Mansion 64.

Seriously, there have been sequels but if those hadn't come out people would have complained. If they do come out other people complain. You can't make everyone happy.


As far as the 1.5 GB discs. That can be a problem with cgi cut scenes and movie clips, but overall I think its made little impact on the quality of the system. Metal Gear Solid is a movie more than a game so sure its going to need a 9 GB disc.

Again, its not a perfect console and its okay not to like it if the games aren't for you. Overall though I think Nintendo has come through with a pretty good system for gamers.

The DPII on some of the GC games (Rogue Leader, Eternal Darkenss, Metroid) sounds far better then the 5.1 on most xboxes games. I am an audio fanatic and can tell you that this is my honest opinion.

The sound engineers for those games did a great job programing it. I think alot of people just like to shoot down DPII because it's matrixed and not discrete. Most of these people have not even heard both Yes 5.1 is a better format, but only if the software developer takes the time to do it right.

Thankfully some of Nintendo's key titles have been made by developers willing to put the work into the game to make it sound awesome.

This is not to say that the PS2 and Xbox ar inferior in anyway. Obviously they are superior in audio capabilities. But the fact is there are a ton of games that fail to support true 5.1 coding, or do a bad job at it on those systems.

I've been a video game junkie for years now, all the way back to the 2600 - so I've been all over the map, as far as consoles go. I dont think I've been this consistantly pleased for a long time. I've got a shelf full of solid grade A titles, while the other consoles have failed to win me over. (Tho I must admit that I am toying with the idea of the X-box. The hat trick of S-Controler, 2 Sega games and Shenmue may be more than my willpower can withstand. Knights of the Old Republic will probably seal the deal for me).

The top 10 or so games:
* Super Monkey Ball 1&2 - a helluva party game, and a great throwback to Marble Madness

* Animal Crossing - Talk about addictive. It's like the Sims, but with a free hit of crack with every disc.

* Godzilla: DAMM - An average fighting game, but a great Giant Monster Simulator! Come on, you get to throw buildings at the other monsters! I get to bust up my home town! How cool is that?

* Star Wars Rouge Squadron - the game that won me over to buy a Cube. That thing looks so beautiful, it hurts.

* Resident Evil - Damn, this thing is a classic, and has the slick packaging to back it up.

* Pickman - What the hell is this game all about? Who cares! It's like Lemmings, but with a purpose - and it's great fun. A very brave game for N to bring out in the US.

* Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Sure it's Twisted Metal Lite, but still a fun game to throw down with 3 of my best Droogs with.

And the future looks even better: SW: Bounty Hunter, Indy and the Emperors Tomb, Zelda, Skies of Arcadia, Resident Evil 4. Bottom line is that this system rocks the house.

Groucho-

It was IGN I believe (or Videogames.com) where I first read about a GC version of a game getting less speech etc. due to limitation of storage. I believe they were talking about the commentary on Madden or NFL2K3 but it could have been another game. I can't spend an hour looking up the review so you will either have to take my word for it or not but I can honestly tell you that I have read this about at least one game that is already released. Also, anyone who reads what the developers say will tell you just how many disc it will take to put many games on the GC. Let's take MGS2 or Shenmue for example. I know that I read it would take several disc for either of these if they put them on the GC. Lastly, all you really have to do is look at the games. How much streaming audio and video do you have in GC games? Everything is at a minimum. Half of the time you don't get speech, but get text messages instead. Maybe this is just Nintendo's style and maybe it is due to limitation in storage. I'm betting on the limitation.


I will give you this because it indeed isn't that big of a deal to put in a second disc but the point being made was WHY not make life easy for developers and just use DVD format?

I'll agree with this but what doesn't load faster than the PS2? I wouldn't be surprised if someone showed me a speed test and the PS1 loaded faster than the PS2 *sarcasm but pointing out the slowness* Compare the GC to the Xbox though and see what you get. Take Halo for example and you will see the value of the hard drive which NINTENDO was the one to point out by talking up the Bulky Disc Drive. It will have bigger storage and NO LOAD TIMES, remember?

KingSmoth-

Value is lost in a game if things are cut due to limitations of the hardware or the medium that didn't have to be so. If you have to cut down the bit rate (talking over my head really now) for the sound or have to cut out video etc. then you are decreasing the value of the game. By the way, I actually love my GC for what it is but I have yet to see or hear a multiplatform title that is better on the GC. Actually I've seen more reviews knocking the framerate issues of some of the GC ports compared to even the PS2 (I believe SSX was reported to be choppier on GC) and we all know that NFS:HP2 was said to be better on the PS2 than either the GC or the Xbox. Just shows it is in the hands of the developers. With this comment I will say that is where GC is STRONG. The developers CARE about the GC and invest greatly to go the extra mile for the games. That is why I expect nothing but perfection (almost anyway) from Metroid when I get home today.

Jeffdsmith-

When I hear sound circling around me depending on which way I turn I hear the value of 5.1. When I hear the THUD of the subwoofer as a rocket lands in front of me I know the value of 5.1. After saying this I will say that you are absolutely correct that 5.1 doesn't mean a thing unless it is used right. I've played some games that could be mono for all I know yet they are 5.1. Good point!

I don't dislike my GC but simply pointing out that I thought the guy had some valid points about Nintendo not simply throwing a cheap DVD drive and digital outputs into the GC.

It might sound better to you but it is not true 5.1 sound no matter how you stack it. It is matrixed from a right/left source. I'll put the DD5.1 audio in Halo, Unreal Championship, MGS:S, and THPS4 up against any DPLII soundtrack.

Again, I don't want another DVD player. That is not the point. If you look at the inside of a GameCube there is a standard PC DVDRom drive in there, Nintendo just made sure to make it impossible for standard DVD media to be played. They also went out of their way to ignore digital audio bitstreams and use the same RGB cables from that N64 uses.

As far as graphics, the franchise titles are very impressive but when a title is on all systems (NBA, Madden, Tony Hawk), the Gamecube lags far behind the other two in graphics and framerates. This might be the developer's fault but everytime??? Name me one multi platform game that is superior on the Cube. If you go by when the consoles were released, it should be the Gamecube everytime, but alas, it never is.

I'm trying to get back into the Gamecube but just this week, I noticed more roadblocks.

You want ethernet play? Well, that is not included but you could buy a $35 slow modem hookup. This was included in the DC and Sony's adapter included both. Why Nintendo seperated, then didn't offer broadband at the same time is beyond me.

It just smacks of making people buy something twice (ie memory cards). Just release it all now and let the market decide.

Then, I want to use this hot new next gen console with my HDTV. Somehow, component cables (which have been around for years) for the Cube are a big noshow. You have to order direct from high priced Nintendo.com if you want to step into the modern age. What else, do I have to do a raindance too?

Doug

All the stuff you're talking about doesn't matter to most people. If it's that big of a deal to you then sell your Cube.

Off the top of my head, Turok and NBA Street.

Turok - Crappy game
NBA Street - came out far later than the PS2 version

Those are not wonderful examples IMO.

I saw a comparison between the three consoles on load times that was interesting. I'll offer up a link if I can find it...they were looking at multi-console games. Obviously PS2 was the slowest of the three. GC and Xbox were more or less evenly matched. The Cube has an edge when going into a brand new area, but with caching the Xbox has an edge when replaying an area. From my own personal experience playing both systems, it's very rare that I notice the load time on either.

You must not have read my post, you completley ignored what I said. I'm not "stacking" anything. Re-read.

EDIT: Have you ever played any of the games I mentioned with a 5.1 setup?

The differences between the Xbox and Gc are very small if any. Groucho I think what you are saying is true in my experience.

Nintendo choose to have fast load times by using a a special medium that also helps protect against piracy. The games don't cost anymore for the GC then the other two consoles.

The only major thing I have noticed is some FMV being slightly grainy.

I think we'll all agree on this, and it can be directly attributed to the smaller media. But compression schemes are getting better. I was shocked at how crisp the FMV was in Resident Evil Zero compared to Resident Evil Remake. It was almost like upgrading from VHS to DVD.