This is one statement I can agree with. Since going third party they have made little impact and I wonder if they have done any better profit wise.

I think their reputation was hurt so bad by the failure of both the Saturn and Dreamcast (I liked both consoles myself though) that most people buying games today really aren't impressed any more by the Sega name. Not sure how the 2K3 games will do, but early on it looks like EA is pounding them in the football market. Other than Sonic I'm not sure how much name recognition they still have.

There will still be people like myself that love Sega and will give them a chance, but I think they have long since been passed over by the mainstream. Of all the games they released since the Dreamcast only three have gone over the 100,000 sales mark. Thats pretty bad. Microsoft buying them out may be a real possibility with their sales so bad.

Going third party was not the easy answer to all of Sega's problems like many people thought.

There have been articles and reports on how Sega has been doing better since it has gone 3rd party.

1 reason why I don't think Sega will go with Nintendo is that there are pretty strong rumors that Nintendo will go software only at the end of the Gamecube lifecycle. If not software only, then maybe stop producing consoles and stick with the handheld market. Let's face it, it takes a long time for a console to be profitable, especially if you are trying to start at a lower price point than the competition. Think how much money Nintendo would make if the went hardware agnostic like Sega is now.

Sonic, SMB, VF4, and Crazy Taxi (PS2 +DC) have all been strong sellers.

Chris

I love it when all these dilettante economists pop up with their comments on how Nintendo should go software only, or will go software only, and that Nintendo will be more profitable when they do go software only.

Sorry to break the news to all you so late, but most innovations in hardware came from Nintendo; Sega, on the other hand, had to go software only because they were always overshadowed by Nintendo and then Sony.

Don't worry Nintendo fan-boys! Nintendo will always be around to produce innovative hardware. They also seem to be the most efficient of the console producers, breaking even or making profits early on in the console's life-span, allowing more cash to go into R&D for the next generation...

Hope you didn't hurt yourself with that 50 cent word...

You're wrong about Nintendo - they've always been behind in console technology - ALWAYS. Name one time when the were ahead of anyone. They've managed to stay at least one or two years behind the competition in nearly every generation. The N64 was an advancement over the 32 bit systems that were dominating, but it was a year or so late and while some could argue that it was a mild success, I've never seen it as anything but a failure considering how well their previous two systems did.

And if you'll remember, Nintendo contracted Sony to develop a CD addon for their SNES to compete with Sega CD... then they decided to try to screw Sony on the deal so Sony said - "fine, we'll take our ball and go home and start our own club" and they did... and it has dominated ever since.

Playing catch-up never really hurt Nintendo until the last 4 or 5 years and they've always been an industry sales leader. There's nothing wrong with speculating about Nintendo going software only for consoles - their main source of income is their GBA and Gameboy devices and given their history, it's highly unlikely that they will attempt to keep up with Sony and Microsoft by producing a new console by 2005. Given that, it's predictable enough that Sony and Microsoft will have a strong foothold on the market while Nintendo struggles. They've also been outsourcing their console development and manufacturing which is something they didn't used to do. They've got money to burn like the other two companies, but that doesn't always mean they will elect to burn their money.

I think alot of people would like to see Nintendo go software only... who wants to buy 2 or 3 consoles? I'd like to own just one myself. Another factor is how they've soured their relationships with many 3rd party developers who are reluctant to come back. They still have a somewhat decent 3rd party support, but it's nowhere near what Sony and even Microsoft has... paid for or not.

You do bring up good reasons for them not to go software only, but at this point it's all speculation and rumors. People can talk about it all they want, but we won't know until Nintendo actually does it (or doesn't do it) since they tend to be very tight-lipped about their plans and financial situation. In any case - we've had threads about this that that poster probably missed, so we don't need to really go into discussion about it.

I'm not saying whether they will go software only or be a console developer forever - I'm saying that nobody knows either way... I brought up reasons why they might go software only just to balance out your reasons why they wouldn't - not to start arguments. As for how all this relates to Sega teaming up with Nintendo, since the software only thing is categorized as a rumor still, we can't really rely on that as a reason why Sega wouldn't go with Nintendo (plus, there are plenty of other reasons why Sega wouldn't team with Nintendo IMO).

Getting out of the hardware business has made Sega into a much healthier company. It was a bitter pill to swallow, but Dreamcast was doomed and if they had clung to it, there's little doubt that they would be bankrupt by now.

Sega's fiscal year ends March 31st. Here's a link to their latest annual report:

http://sega.jp/IR/en/cr/pdf/20020523.pdf

Basically, in the last fiscal year, they lost far less money than they had in the previous year and would have made a profit if not for costs associated with them getting out of the hardware business. At this point, it's expected that they are operating profitably.

Trigger: Your knowledge is limitless, and your facts irrefutable. I hail to thee. Kill me, and take all my treasure . . .

Although I am unsure of which 50 cent word you are talking about--yes my head is aching and I have lost 125 hit points all at once. Kill me and put me out of my misery. (I don't want this to get into a Josh-Trigger dual).

Anyway I see that you spend most of your time here bashing the Gamecube and praising the X-box, while I spend my free time playing my Gamecube. I wonder why . . . perhaps posting lamentations here is more amusing than playing with your box.

(Sorry, the final paragraph was quite childish. You probably divide your time evenly between DVDTalk and XBox)

Whatever... Don't associate me with Josh first of all... I don't see how I bashed on Gamecube and I'm not slobbery in love with Xbox either. I haven't been playing much on consoles lately since you're fascinated with what I do with my free time... I've been playing PC games like Mafia and The Thing - when I take a break to go have a smoke, I d*ck around on the internet. If you're suggesting that I'm some sort of geeky 14 year old spaz or something because I post on a forum, then maybe you should take a good look in the mirror.

I'm sure you meant this post as some sort of insult or personal attack, but I'm just going to take it as a joke... a childish one, but a joke nonetheless. I don't know what makes you think I've presented any of my opinions as facts and I don't know where I even said you were wrong. I think if you're truly upset or frustrated with me, then you need to chill out a little and maybe re-read what I wrote. If you'll remember, you're the one who accused everyone who suggested Nintendo might go software only was wrong and that Nintendo would be around forever making consoles. All I did was present the other side in a diplomatic way and suggest that whether or not it will happen isn't something we'll know for sure until it happens. Can't you handle someone not agreeing with you or accepting everything you say as fact?

If you're mad about my 50 cent word comment, I was just joking (hence the smiley face) and I didn't mean for you to take offense.

Anyway, as a wise man once said - "Relax." - Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

Cool, thats for the facts. I of course was thinking more of the US sales and not factoring in the worldwide sales. I'm glad they are doing better believe me, but I still believe that they are not the big name they once were at least in the US. Hopefully, in time they can build themselves back up with good software (which they are still making) and people forgetting about the old mistakes. That way the can be as big of a factor as EA or anyone else.

Trigger: Calm down. I was merely joking; there is no reason for me to make personal attacks over a heap of silicon. I believe I am a bit more mature than that. Neither was I "offended" by your post... Actually, I was more amused than offended.

As for Josh: Sorry, but it is quite difficult not to associate you with Josh (for obvious reasons).

Update: I just looked in the mirror, but there was no sign of a geeky 14-year-old boy (or girl).

You can't tell me to "calm down," I told you to "relax!" Anyway - I said I took it as a joke.

Better stop it -

Hmm... Maybe you have one of those crazy fun house mirrors... j/k.

And if you think I take console gaming any more seriously than you do, then you're mistaken.