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Old 08-17-22 | 11:44 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Seems to be doing decently enough:


Old 08-17-22 | 11:44 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by joeblow69
The last 5 minutes was cool ... problem was it seemed like it took an hour and a half to get there.
I liken it to a Twilight Zone episode. The whole thing needed to develop the characters and build up to the payoff. I think it was only 25 minutes long anyways. But I can understand why some would get bored. I was completely drawn into it.
Old 08-17-22 | 11:56 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

An important thing to remember is that the diner sequence is just a proxy for what's happening all over the world. We get some hint of this with the TV broadcasts, and when Morpheus finally steps outside, but basically the whole world is going crazy in roughly the same way.
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Old 08-17-22 | 12:18 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by Jay G.
An important thing to remember is that the diner sequence is just a proxy for what's happening all over the world. We get some hint of this with the TV broadcasts, and when Morpheus finally steps outside, but basically the whole world is going crazy in roughly the same way.
that reminds of another thing that seemed weird ... Dream was locked up for 100 years or so? right? So some people slept until they died (I guess?) and some people couldn't sleep at all ... and it was maybe mentioned once or twice ... but I kind of think that would have been a much bigger deal than they let on.
Old 08-17-22 | 12:29 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by joeblow69
that reminds of another thing that seemed weird ... Dream was locked up for 100 years or so? right? So some people slept until they died (I guess?) and some people couldn't sleep at all ... and it was maybe mentioned once or twice ... but I kind of think that would have been a much bigger deal than they let on.
Well, Unity, the older lady in episodes 7-10, is one of those victims.

Also, it's based on a real epidemic that happened in the 1910s-1920s, the same disease that inspired the movie Awakenings:
https://collider.com/the-sandman-sle...s-neil-gaiman/
However, the sleeping sickness that appears in The Sandman was based on a very real disease that took the world by storm in the 1910s and 1920s — and whose cause remains a mystery to this day...

But even those that managed to escape the deep, endless slumber still faced tremendous risk. Years would go by until seemingly cured patients presented signs of the chronic form of the disease. The symptoms included involuntary movement of the eyes, psychiatric disorders that could go from euphoria to psychosis, and, perhaps most prominently, a great stiffness of the upper body denominated post-encephalitic parkinsonism. With time, patients would stop moving entirely, their bodies still and their faces frozen in a kind of mask....

Oddly enough, though, the paralysis caused by the chronic form of the sleeping sickness could be circumvented by things such as throwing a ball to the afflicted person or putting on some music. The external stimulus would cause the sick to lift their arms to catch the ball or even dance for a while. This kind of response to the outside world led neurologist Oliver Sacks to believe that there was something more to the disease than what was known at the time....

Dr. Sacks recounted his experience at Mount Carmel in the 1973 book Awakenings. One of the stories he tells is of a patient identified as Rose R., who went to bed one night as a 21-year-old, in 1926, and was only able to get up after 43 years.
Neil Gaiman often does this, where he weaves in odd and little known facets of the real world with myth and his own fantasy.
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Old 08-17-22 | 12:31 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Netflix has put a 45 minute cast interview titled "The Sandman: Unlocked" on Youtube. Don't watch until you've finished season 1, as it has a lot of spoilers.

Old 08-17-22 | 02:51 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by Jay G.

Neil Gaiman often does this, where he weaves in odd and little known facets of the real world with myth and his own fantasy.
Yeah, he did that all the time in the comic, as he is extremely well read, and I loved that he did it. I learned tons of obscure little facts just from reading Sandman, for example what a trichobezoar is, and the Rapunzel syndrome that causes them. Tidbits like that and what a sky burial is have been stuck in my brain for decades.
Old 08-17-22 | 04:15 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Ok, I tried to watch the rest of this, and I just can't. Couldn't get through episode 7. The tonal shift form the first half of the series is just too weird for me. What started off as cool has just descended into goofiness. I'm glad you all can enjoy it, but it just got too corny for me.
Old 08-17-22 | 04:38 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Kirby Howell-Baptiste, who's a co-lead in the comedy film Queenpins, and has had notable roles in shows Veronica Mars, The Good Place, Barry, Why Women Kill, and first season of Killing Eve.

Queenpins is quite fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90YxH6lR_8

Oooh, didn't know what was her. I had this in a queue.
Old 08-18-22 | 06:05 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by joeblow69
Ok, I tried to watch the rest of this, and I just can't. Couldn't get through episode 7. The tonal shift form the first half of the series is just too weird for me. What started off as cool has just descended into goofiness. I'm glad you all can enjoy it, but it just got too corny for me.
That's an interesting take.

With the original comics, the first arc where Dream is on a quest to regain his lost tools, is generally considered to be the weakest storyline, and it's the second storyline, "The Doll's House," where it really becomes what it was destined to be. It's the first seven issues of the comic, and quite obvious that Gaiman is trying to figure out what he wants it to be and finding his voice as a writer.

The comic itself is all about tonal shifts and varied art styles, though. It has a wide scope... the (presumably) upcoming arcs "Season of Mists" and "A Game of You," will, respectively, feature a return to Hell and the introduction of gods and goddesses from various pantheons, and a Morpheus-lite examination of gender and sexuality. And after that, we will (likely) see Dream and one of his sisters go on a road trip to find their prodigal brother.

That was one of the really cool things about reading the comic book month-to-month back in the day. You never knew what was going to be coming up or who was going to be drawing it.
Old 08-18-22 | 09:24 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Yeah, even Neil admits that the first seven issues was him stumbling around, trying to find the path of the comic's story and he finally found it with issue 8, "The Sound of Her Wings" (introduction of Death) and after that it was off to the races. I started reading the comic with Season of Mists, so when I finally went back to Preludes and Nocturnes it definitely felt like a different, slightly inferior comic by comparison.
Old 08-18-22 | 10:34 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
That's an interesting take.
The comic itself is all about tonal shifts and varied art styles, though. It has a wide scope... the (presumably) upcoming arcs "Season of Mists" and "A Game of You," will, respectively, feature a return to Hell and the introduction of gods and goddesses from various pantheons, and a Morpheus-lite examination of gender and sexuality. And after that, we will (likely) see Dream and one of his sisters go on a road trip to find their prodigal brother.

That was one of the really cool things about reading the comic book month-to-month back in the day. You never knew what was going to be coming up or who was going to be drawing it.
Hmm, that is interesting, maybe that works better in a comic than a TV show? The hell episode was actually my favorite, I remember hearing about the actress playing lucifer, and was looking forward to that. Shame it was so short.

For me, the first 5 episodes gave the impression this was going to be a serious drama show (with the exception of the Cain/Abel cringefest). But then the second half kept adding all these goofy characters: the pumpkin head guy, Ken & Barbie, the 2 girls in "Lydia from Beetlejuice" cosplay, John Cameron Mitchell overacting as a drag queen ... It just didn't work for me. As a tv season, it felt weird to be adding so many characters I didn't care about so late in the season.

And I have to ask, was this written by a gay author? Is it meant to be a gay-themed story? I mean, obviously I love gay representation in stories, but it seemed weird to me how many people in this story are gay. At first, I was like "Oh, he's gay, thats cool". Then, Oh, she's gay too? And that one? and him? Was there something about Dream being captured that turned 75% of the population gay?
Old 08-18-22 | 12:16 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by joeblow69
Hmm, that is interesting, maybe that works better in a comic than a TV show? The hell episode was actually my favorite, I remember hearing about the actress playing lucifer, and was looking forward to that. Shame it was so short.

For me, the first 5 episodes gave the impression this was going to be a serious drama show (with the exception of the Cain/Abel cringefest). But then the second half kept adding all these goofy characters: the pumpkin head guy, Ken & Barbie, the 2 girls in "Lydia from Beetlejuice" cosplay, John Cameron Mitchell overacting as a drag queen ... It just didn't work for me. As a tv season, it felt weird to be adding so many characters I didn't care about so late in the season.
Well, keep in mind that in terms of the original comic, it's not "late in the season," but the start of a whole new book. The show put two books from the comic back-to-back as one season. If it was more closely modeled after the comic book, episodes 7-10 would've been their own season. So it's a new story-arc, with new characters. Also, I don't think the B&B characters are supposed to be "goofy," but rather more like "quirky," but more specifically they're outcasts that have banded together. Looking at it now, maybe they're reflective of the types of fans that showed up at comic book conventions back then?

As for Lucifer, they'll appear again in later seasons.

Originally Posted by joeblow69
And I have to ask, was this written by a gay author? Is it meant to be a gay-themed story? I mean, obviously I love gay representation in stories, but it seemed weird to me how many people in this story are gay. At first, I was like "Oh, he's gay, thats cool". Then, Oh, she's gay too? And that one? and him? Was there something about Dream being captured that turned 75% of the population gay?
Neil Gaiman isn't gay, despite what his last name may lead you to think. He's been married twice, to women. However, his work has always been "queer friendly," and included them in his stories. But it's a reflection of his friends and experiences.

https://thequeerreview.com/2022/08/0...tq-characters/
Throughout the first season, a range of LGBTQ+ characters is introduced. Revealed in a casual way, none of them are defined by their sexuality or gender identity; it’s just one aspect of who they are, in line with Gaiman’s initial approach when he wrote the comics. “We didn’t really change anything”, offers Gaiman, “that was how they were when I wrote them, that’s always how I’ve written characters. At the time, I remember getting a very grumpy letter from the “Concerned Mothers of America”, informing us that due to the number of gay characters in Sandman they would be boycotting us and we had to repent. We never repented and the sales just went up, and up, and up! ...

“When I was writing it—and today—I had gay friends and I had trans friends”, Gaiman continues, “I wanted to see them represented in the comics that I was writing and it felt to me like if I wrote comics and left them out, then I wouldn’t be representing my world, or the world that I was in, or the world I was perceiving accurately, bravely, or truly. And that’s the point of art. So for me, it was just a given.”

Allan Heinberg, who has long been a fan of Gaiman’s work, discovered the first issue of
The Sandman in his local comic book store when it was first published. “I think part of the reason that I loved Sandman when it was coming out”, Heinberg told The Queer Review, “was because it was representation at a time, especially in comics, where there was none. Northstar didn’t happen for quite some time, and it wasn’t the same. So I, as a queer person, always felt seen, and heard, and held by Sandman and obviously I wanted the show to do that for the LGBTQIA+ community. A number of people in the writers rooms for both seasons one—and we’ve started talking about season two—are nonbinary, and gay, and lesbian, and bisexual, and trans. Everybody was able to read these stories in 2021 and 2022 in a fresh way and say, ‘This still works, it really works’.”


Allan Heinberg is the co-showrunner for the TV series, so there is a gay person "in charge," but every LGBTQ+ character/relationship so far has been adapted from the source material, so they're not changing and adding in more LGBTQ+ content.
Old 08-18-22 | 12:30 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Well, keep in mind that in terms of the original comic, it's not "late in the season," but the start of a whole new book.
It totally felt like that! Which is maybe what threw me off.
Neil Gaiman isn't gay, despite what his last name may lead you to think.
Allan Heinberg is the co-showrunner for the TV series, so there is a gay person "in charge," but every LGBTQ+ character/relationship so far has been adapted from the source material, so they're not changing and adding in more LGBTQ+ content.
Ah, that's cool. It's just so interesting, with this whole "Netflix has gone woke" thing where people think Netflix is adding gay/trans characters all over place ... if you didn't know the source material, this show would maybe make you wonder. LOL
Old 08-18-22 | 12:40 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Neil Gaiman isn't gay, but Sandman always had a lot of LGBTQ representation.

I was reading the comics in my late teens/early twenties, and it was really sort of strange at the time. It had a lot of LGBTQ characters, and they were never the objects of mock or ridicule like in other forms of mainstream entertainment. One storyline, "A Game of You," featured a transwoman who wasn't the butt of jokes, or caused other characters to vomit on cue. (Which is a pretty damned low bar, but even The Crying Game had Stephen Rea puking into a toilet after he saw Dil's dong.) This was the late 80s and early 90s when pop culture was sort of willing to flirt with gay issues, but was unwilling to fully embrace gay characters or even show same sex kisses on television or show gay characters as individuals and not just token gay friends.

All of the gay themes and characters in Netflix's Sandman were there in the comics thirty years ago, so if it seems like a lot now...

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Old 08-18-22 | 12:41 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

The Sandman comic was "woke" decades before it was even a thing. It was probably the first mainstream comic to throw in LGBTQ+ characters just matter of factly, it had nothing to do with the story, it was just who they were.

It's also important to note that when this was published back in the late 80's/early 90's, readers of mainstream comics were overwhelmingly male, probably well over 90%. Sandman was the first mainstream comic to eventually end up with practically a 50/50 split between male and female readers. It probably had something to do with the stories themselves being so inclusive, rather than the "boys club" atmosphere that permeated the vast majority of comics at the time.
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Old 08-18-22 | 12:51 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

I just realized that by changing the modern Constantine from John to Johanna, the show actually did add a lesbian relationship that wasn't in the comic. But that decision seems more lead by the licensing issues around John Constantine, the existence of the past Johanna Constantine already in the comic, giving Jenna Coleman a larger role in the first season, etc. than any desire to deliberately add more LGBTQ+ characters/relationships to the show.
Old 08-18-22 | 04:08 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Good point, I didn't think of that either. As far as I know that was the only case where a character's sexuality was changed in the course of adapting the comic to television?


BTW, it was awesome seeing Martin Tenbones, really hope they get to A Game of You. Great seeing Merv Pumpkinhead too!

Old 08-18-22 | 06:49 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Merv Pumpkinhead is voiced by Mark Hamill. 👍🏿
Old 08-18-22 | 06:50 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Some may not know and may wonder why they are in Sandman but Cain and Abel, The Witches, etc were homages to DC's Horror Comics back in the days. Those characters where Hosts in those series.
Old 08-19-22 | 02:05 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

FYI, new bonus episode just added. Episode 11.

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Old 08-19-22 | 02:36 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Niiiiicccceee



Old 08-19-22 | 09:36 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by Jay G.
I just realized that by changing the modern Constantine from John to Johanna, the show actually did add a lesbian relationship that wasn't in the comic. But that decision seems more lead by the licensing issues around John Constantine, the existence of the past Johanna Constantine already in the comic, giving Jenna Coleman a larger role in the first season, etc. than any desire to deliberately add more LGBTQ+ characters/relationships to the show.
When Johanna's exes were mentioned, there was at least one male name mentioned. So it seems Johanna is bisexual (just like John Constantine is), though changing the character's sex does put a LGBTQ+ relationship front and center earlier on.
Old 08-19-22 | 11:00 AM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

An interesting strategy to hold back one episode. I guess the unique arrangement of The Sandman, with its mix of long arcs and standalone stories, allowed this to happen, but it's a clever way to get people talking about the show again a few weeks later. It also maybe helped the initial impressions of the show, as the season originally ended at the end of a big arc, so a lot of people's first impressions were of that strong ending. I wonder if people's first impressions will change now that this new episode is out.

I wonder if they could do some Christmas specials or other standalones in between full season releases.

Originally Posted by majorjoe23
When Johanna's exes were mentioned, there was at least one male name mentioned. So it seems Johanna is bisexual (just like John Constantine is), though changing the character's sex does put a LGBTQ+ relationship front and center earlier on.
Well, I did say the show added a "lesbian relationship" instead adding lesbians. Rachel could, also, be bi. However, their relationship is decidedly same-sex. Also, maybe the "male name" belongs to a woman?
Old 08-19-22 | 12:09 PM
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re: The Sandman (Netflix) -- Series Based on the DC Vertigo Comic Book

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Some may not know and may wonder why they are in Sandman but Cain and Abel, The Witches, etc were homages to DC's Horror Comics back in the days. Those characters where Hosts in those series.
Yep, I remember reading House of Mystery and House of Secrets a lot when I was a kid, loved those 70's DC horror comics. Even Lucien (changed to Lucienne in the show) was the host of a very short lived comic from the same era called Tales of Ghost Castle (I think it only lasted three issues). The "Ghost Castle" in that comic was later retconned in Sandman as Dream's castle.

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