milo bloom

There's lists out there that put all every single Trek show and movie into chronological order so you can watch the whole story in timeline order and it makes for some interesting comparisons. A while back the wife and I started with TNG season 1 and then as we got to DS9, VOY and the TNG movies, we watched them all in order going back forth as the seasons were airing at the same time. It really helps break up things like the first few seasons of DS9 when you've also got VOY stories to watch for something lighter. And the few crossovers they have are neat to see.

But, it really laid bare how much the producers dropped the ball when it came to the idea of crossing over. It feels like such a wasted opportunity to have a cohesive story being told. How awesome would it have been to see what was happening on DS9 when the Borg were attacking Earth in First Contact? Or why the Enterprise was dicking around with the Sona and Baku during the Dominion War. Or have someone on DS9 periodically mention about how there's still no sign of Voyager after disappearing in the Badlands. As good as these three shows could be on their own, they could have been so much more together.

Count Dooku

milo bloom

I can't believe I've never watched that, that's actually pretty funny.

devilshalo

That he riffed it makes it even all the more impressive.

milo bloom

You mean improvised? In one take? That is something.

wearetheborg

S2E20: Investigations
Liked this episode. They did a good job setting Tom up in previous ones.
Neelix was utilized in a decent fashion. The actor must be a trooper to undergo that heavy makeup/prosthetics/contacts.
Jakote was pissed he wasn't let in on the "little plan"

The Kason ship scenes were bad. Like how could one prisoner escape with barely any effort???

milo bloom

Jakote?
Chakotay?

As for the Kazon, there's supposed to be a callback to the Klingons in that there's a fanon theory that says it doesn't make sense that such a brutal, warlike race like the Klingons couldn't make it into space on their own. So, the idea is that the Klingons were actually a slave race to a group called the Hurq, that they overthrew and took over the ships and such. The Kazon are supposed to be the same, they overthrew their enslavers and took the ships. So, they can mostly make them work, but they're not that great at the infrastructure of running a space fleet.

wearetheborg

Yes, they explained that in S2E14: Alliances
I buy that Kazon aren't engineers. But if they are smart enough to take the ships and do basic maintenance, then they should be able to do basic security.

milo bloom

Like the Starfleet ships that are constantly being boarded and invaded?

devilshalo

I never understood that... as long as the ship is moving, it should be very difficult to transport to them. Much easier to do so if static and disabled.

wearetheborg

S2E21: Deadlock
This was a tense episode! Even though I roughly knew what would happen as I had seen the episode before.
I'll call undamaged Voyager as 1 and the damaged one as 2.
The ending was a bit of a downer with Voyager 1 crew dying
RIP Voyager 1


Plothole: If Voyager 1 self destructed, doesn't that mean the antimatter for Voyager 2 is also gone?

Apparently 5 of the crew could go from one ship to the other. Which 5 crew members would you pick (from Janeway's viewpoint)?
Janeway would be out because of the social ramifications.
In order of importance:
1. Bellona (chief engineer)
2. Tuvok
3. Neelix (for his food supply knowledge)
4 .Chakotey
5. Some engineer??

Of course not all of them could have gone in the five minutes.

They should also have had a brief speech by Janeway to her crew on the bridge after the countdown had started.

devilshalo

If you included Harry and the baby in your 5? B'ellana, Kes, Tuvok.

What's funny is that the Doctor was always ZIMMERMAN in scripts. And to distinguish the 3 Robert's when on set, Bob = Picardo, Robbie = Duncan McNeil and Robert = Beltran.

Count Dooku

If you're going to continue with this, it's B'Elanna.

wearetheborg

Why Kes?

I would not have picked Harry/baby.

devilshalo

Since Janeway ordered Harry and the baby, I assume you only got 3 more choices. Kes because it's better to have one more for Zimmerman medical support. Chakotay to me was always rather worthless. As a Number 1, he wasn't given a lot to do. Neelix is an overrated Chopped participant. Kes also knows her foods and can supply support with the onboard garden. I would still take Harry as he and Paris work well together as problem solvers and pilots. B'ellana is a given, Tuvok.. while good to have, would have been my last choice.

wearetheborg

All 5 choices are yours to make (so Harry/baby not included unless you choose them).

I forgot about Kes's garden. And good point about Chakotay.

devilshalo

At least during my time with the Voyager writing staff, Chatokay was always underwritten. Janeway may consult with him, but ultimately it never mattered what he said. I always found it funny that the Maquis were so integrated so quickly that they lost their identity.

Two Kes also would solve the problems between Paris and Neelix.

And I think having the baby would be a huge morale boost, considering what had just taken place. You would have lost Ensign Wildman, who seemed to be useful with engineering tho she's a science officer. Whatever knocked her up would probably have melted down, too.

Did they ever revisit Harry and the baby being from a different dimension? You can always tell Braga written episodes, because he mines things from his past work, mostly dealing with multiverses. Also thought it was interesting to see Ken Biller credited as co-producer. He was a staff writer in the first season.

wearetheborg

I didn't know you were with the Voyager writing staff, that's so cool!!!
I agree, Chatokay was usually underwritten. There was some Maqui-Starfleet tension in S1, but after that they integrated too quickly.

Or Neelix could have two Kes'.

Good point. And it was the first Voyager baby too.
Not that I recall. The other dimension was never mentioned again to the best of my recollection.

devilshalo

All the Trek shows had a deal with the WGA for writing interns. 6 week stints that were paid positions, not by the show but by the WGA. They could also be extended or you could be hired as a staff writer. This happened with Brannon Braga, he was an intern during TNG and the writer's strike and just after my time, my counterpart on DS9 was replaced by Lisa Klink, who became a staff writer on VOY.

I had to submit a spec script to get into the program. My functions were to provide coverage (which meant reading a shit ton of unsolicited spec scripts and either pass or approve them - most were passes), attend writers' meetings, attend pitch meetings, etc. I got to pitch a few ideas, but never sold anything. They took parts of my spec script and massaged them into an episode, but I got no credit. It was an interesting time. Spent most of my days on set watching them film, instead of writing.

BearFan

That is incredibly cool.. what a great experience

wearetheborg

S2E22: Innocence
OK, but forgettable episode
S2E24: Tuvix
Excellent and memorable and disturbing episode. Discussed here before.

S2E23: The Thaw
I liked this episode. Good to see Chuck from Better Call Saul.
They went for a circus simulation rather than a more serious one because of production costs, I'm guessing.
The ending scene with Fear and Janeway was cool.

Someone mentioned earlier than Janeway was weak in Voyager. I certainly did not get that impression. From her self destruction the ship in Deadlock, to executing Tuvix, to her being positioned as the alpha in The Thaw, she conveyed authority. As Q said, authority without sacrificing femininity.

devilshalo

I think Kate did as well as she could with the material given. I do not think Genevieve Bujold would ever have been able to do it. I think the lost Caretaker scenes with Genevieve can be found on the internet and it might have made it as some dvd extras, but back then... no one outside of Trek ever saw her performance. We're talking worse than Eric Stoltz as Marty McFly.

wearetheborg

Yes, the scenes with Genevieve are bad, no sense of authority. To be fair, one of the youtube comments mentioned it wasn't supposed to be the final performance.

B5Erik

Yes. A lot.

The pilots for TNG and DS9 were less than outstanding, but both shows got a lot better as they went along.

DWilson

If you look at the breadth of a series that lasts more than a season, the pilot is usually not the best representation of the series. The pilot is used to sell a show either to the network or the viewer, and they have a much larger budget, but its next few episodes that decide what the actual show will be like (at least for the short run). TNG didn't really find itself until the second season (though opinions vary). DS9 also changed quite a bit over time.