Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I read the quote below, and my response seemed to make more sense on it's own rather than in a thread for another topic...

See, here's the thing - NO ONE has done Classic Trek since the 90's. Even Paramount has done their damnedest to modernize Trek into something darker, edgier, grittier, bigger, and yet less purely adventure based than what TOS, TNG, and even DS9 were.

And along comes The Orville, which IS a love letter to TNG, and we've got a show that is the kind of thing that's been missing for almost 20 years!

Yeah, it's derivative. Yes, it's unoriginal. So what? No one else is doing it! There has been a huge void for almost two decades, and I'm glad that Seth decided to fill that gap and put out the kind of show that I (and a lot of others) have missed for a long, long time. And the actual stories are good on The Orville (unoriginal or not), and the characters are great! I love the actors and characters on The Orville. I didn't give a shit about anyone on Voyager or Enterprise (especially Enterprise), and Discovery (from what I saw) was even worse in that regard. I care about what happens to the characters on The Orville, and the show is just FUN.

I can't wait for Season 3! Whenever that happens... :(

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

If you've read comics, The Orville is comparable to Alan Moore's Supreme.
DC and John Byrne rebooted Superman in the mid-80s to make the character more modern, and in the process erased all the Silver Age stuff that made the Superman comic unique: Superboy, Supergirl, the Legion of Superheroes, the Bottled City of Kandor, Krypto, etc. So for 20 years we got a more "realistic" Superman that was pretty bland, and at times, darker (Superman killing the Phantom Zone criminals, Superman going through his own "Passion of the Christ" ordeal with the "Death of Superman").

Alan Moore started writing Rob Liefeld's Superman rip-off in 1997, "Supreme" and made him even more like Superman by applying his own version of Superman's Silver Age aspects that DC had discarded: Kid Supreme, Suprema, The League of Infinity, Amalynth the Prism World, Radar the Hound Supreme, etc. Instead of going darker, which was the trend in 90s comics, Alan Moore wrote Supreme to be more uplifting and optimistic. Fun and imaginative. He embraced all the "outdated" concepts that defined Superman: fun, optimism and adventure.

The result was that Alan Moore's Supreme was a better and truer Superman comic than the actual Superman comics that DC was publishing. In fact, Supreme "Story of the Year" is probably the best "Superman" story out there, and Grant Morrison's highly praised All-Star Superman is definitely patterned after it.

Coming back to Star Trek, Star Trek: Discovery is supposed to be a grittier, more realistic take on the franchise. And the first season of Star Trek: Picard shows a Star Fleet that's pretty much the Trump Administration, a Federation that uses synthetic slave labor like in the dystopian Blade Runner, Hostel-like torture scenes, and Game of Thrones-style decapitations.

The Orville on I also think that the Overall, it's embracing all the "outdated" concepts that made Star Trek unique: fun, optimism and adventure.

I agree!
Just about every character on the show is endearing. Even Klyden. I'm not happy with Alara's replacement though.

:( at the Voyager comment, but I get what you're saying.

I'm looking forward to it as well. But I don't mind the wait. Both seasons delivered and gave us plenty of good stories to hold us over. With Star Trek: Picard we only got one single storyline and it was disappointing and average.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I don’t like Star Trek, but I do love The Orville! How’s that for a twist?

Being familiar with his work on Family Guy, I expect a certain level of crude humor in The Orville. Some of that comedy shows up in smaller samples, and I think that’s what keeps my attention.

And I’ve read that he ripped off several Star Trek storylines, but it’s all new to me! Haha

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I’ll probably eventually watch it. It’s just I don’t necessarily like when something pays homage to the point where it becomes almost a knock off, which from what I’ve heard is kind of what The Orville does. I mean if I want nineties Trek there’s TNG, DS9, and VOY.

Also I like Enterprise and feel as though most fans underrate it. It’s the last true Star Trek feeling thing produced by the franchise. Has good characters too like Archer, T’Pol, Trip, and Phlox.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

First, Voyager was kind of crap. It had a ton of potential, but the producing/writing team just botched it.

Second, yeah, there's always TNG and DS9. Which we've all seen from beginning to end 5 or 6 times. We know all the twists and turns. There are no surprises. If we want any NEW Trek in that style the Orville's the only game in town. There hasn't been anything like TNG, DS9, or Voyager in almost 20 years. It's all re-watching old episodes.

I gave Enterprise a shot, and didn't like it. It was all wrong, tech wise, and the characters just didn't connect with me, The whole thing seemed kind of cold and sterile - like Discovery before Discovery. I read that it got better, tried a couple episodes, and still didn't like it much. I don't DISlike it, but I don't like it, either. It just isn't in the same style and doesn't quite feel right.

But The Orville feels right.

Paramount refuses to produce actual Trek content. They produce sci-fi product with the Trek name, but it isn't Trek at heart. The Orville is the first show in a long time that's actually Trek at heart. (Not surprising since some 90's Trek veterans work on the show.)

If Paramount were putting out actual Trek product I don't think The Orville would have worked. But they aren't, they haven't in a long, long time, and they aren't going to in the foreseeable future, either.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Orville is heavily flawed but pretty well liked in general it seems. Even critics came around after slamming early S1 episodes.

Its strength is in people who love and respect the genre but know not to take themselves too seriously.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

And you're going to have to wait another year for it. It was supposed to come at the end of 2020. But, due to the pandemic, they shut down production. So in all likelihood, it won't come back until 2021. Mainly because it's a special effects driven show and they were in the middle of principal photography when it got shut down.

I finished about 1/2 of season 1, but never got around to going back. I enjoyed it, but it just fell on the backburner. Since there is going to be a massively long delay until it comes back, I try to make the time to catch up.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Voyager isn’t my favorite but I’ve grown to like it more. It still has the overall classic feel of Star Trek.

Enterprise feels cold and sterile maybe from the way it looks. They did it right though if you ask me as the ship looks like an earlier model. I kind of like it actually, has kind of a feel of an old Navy ship or submarine or something. I’d say give it another chance. It’s far more true to the spirit of classic Trek versus Discovery or Picard.

It’s sad what’s become of Star Trek. It’s fallen victim to producers who want to make it more dumbed down to appeal to a wider audience who never gave a crap about the franchise

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

while I've enjoyed Discovery and Picard, Orville feels more like Trek than either of them

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I loved the first season, but, for me, the 2nd half of the 2nd season was amazing. There were some epic episodes that were exceptionally dramatic and exciting, but still had that humor when needed.

You really should check out the entire series. The early episodes were good, but the show got better as they went along.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

That’s a common criticism that I’ve heard.

I only watched a handful of episodes of DS9 and VOY when they first came out. They never hooked me. I’ve tried rewatching DS9, and while it has some good episodes, it still doesn’t make me want to binge watch it. Plus DS9 was very different from TNG and, IMO, didn’t feel like Star Trek.

I tried watching VOY recently, but overall, it’s a chore. It’s TNG-lite on a much smaller scale, with less interesting characters.

Although The Orville is very much inspired by TNG, it doesn’t remind me at all of the other two shows. It also seems inspired by Galaxy Quest. It’s more than just “90s Trek.”

Pretty much.

DS9 felt like a different show altogether. VOY felt like diet-TNG. ENT felt like a generic space show, and DISCO feels like some generic action sci-fi with an unlikable lead.

Galaxy Quest felt like a Star Trek movie in everything but name. It had the spirit of Star Trek. Same goes for The Orville.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I like all of the them actually. Some more some less. It doesnt have to be exactly like the original series for me to like it, but do appreciate the tone of Orville very much and there were some surprisingly excellent episodes thrown into the mix.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Same here. Picard was neat to see all the old characters again (the ep with Riker and Troi was fantastic) and Discovery had a clunky first season but turned it around in the second season to a great adventure.

But from the start, The Orville captured the feel of TNG seasons 3-6 in an amazing way and it’s the one out of those three that I most look forward to new episodes of.

Trek had tried to be modern and you can argue that it maybe needed a little spit and polish for the 21st century tv audiences, but the grimdark stuff (especially S1 of Disco) was like some goth kid with the black eyeliner and stuff trying to be cool but they honestly would rather be watching cartoons and eating sugary cereal.

If they give Anson Mount a Captain Pike series and really make it feel like it’s ten years before TOS, it could be something cool. But The Orville is already two laps ahead.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I used to not like DS9 as much but giving it a chance again I like it more. To me it still has the spirit of Star Trek but just goes in a different direction. Slightly darker storylines, the setting.

VOY I kind of agree is like diet TNG. It probably is my least favorite of the nineties era Trek. I think a lot of it stems down to the fact that I don’t like a lot of the cast. Tuvok, Neelix, Seven of Nine, and The Doctor are my favorites. Never really liked Janeway. A lot of the other characters are forgettable. I like the ship design of Voyager though.

ENT to me feels how it needs to feel. It feels like a Starfleet that is just getting started. Things don’t work how they’re supposed to oftentimes, and they haven’t really encountered a lot beyond the Vulcans who they have a relationship with, but still have a ways to go towards understanding them in many ways. Like I mentioned before too I like the overall design. The NX-01 looks like an early vessel and lower tech. Yes, it isn’t TOS looking, but I buy it being an earlier attempt.

Oh and Galaxy Quest is awesome. I’ve always wished for a sequel to it.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Didn't we have this exact same discussion on the Orville thread? Anyhow I'm a TOS and TNG fan. I could take or leave the others but they weren't bad. However none of them are star trek like Orville. Orville is the perfect landing between TOS and TNG and I look forward to move of it. These newer Treks take it all way too seriously and I'd rather get my sci-fi with a sprinkling of humor and drama than drama with a sprinkling of sci-fi and humor.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

It has some very good episodes, and overall, it's a decent watch. But visually, it looks too much like Stargate SG-1 and Babylon 5. It lacks a distinctive visual identity in my opinion.

Plus, despite being the more "serious" Star Trek series, the comedic relief and diet-characters make it feel too much like a sitcom at times. Ex. Quark and his nerdy, bumbling brother Rom, who somehow manages to marry a super-hot human wife.

As for the diet-characters, Major Kira is the poor-woman's Ensign Ro. And overall the Klingon's started to feel a little too familiar and easy-going at times. Martok's all too relatable complaints about his overbearing wife, and the formerly cunning and vicious Kor, who became this poodle haired, funny old man. Even when Worf's son was the Urkel of the Klingon ship and making all kinds of mistakes, and instead of being killed for jeopardizing the Empire with his fuckery his fellow warriors just slap him on the back and say "Oh you!" And I couldn't care less about Miles and Keiko.

It's such a chore to get through this show. But after watching "Year of Hell," I realized just how much potential this show had. An excellent two-part episode. Probably one of the best Star Trek episodes I've ever seen. That should have been the tone of the entire series. And Kate Mulgrew acted the shit out of that role. She's great, despite not always having the best material to work with.
TNG brought Star Trek into a totally new century and it looked and felt like it.
VOY didn't do that. They're supposed to be 40,000 light years from the Alpha Quadrant, in total unexplored territory and yet they still manage to run into human-looking people with slightly different forehead markings all the time, who have warp technologies, and spaceships just like theres. And how can they communicate without the universal translator? They still manage to have TNG-like reset-button adventures. They still have a clean ship, clean uniforms, and waste energy and resources playing in the holodeck.
Man...this show could have been great. Star Trek meets Lost in Space. This is the one Star Trek TV series that should have been a serialized story format. And have the Delta Quadrant actually feel like an unexplored alien region of space. Should have had a 1979 Alien vibe too.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Personally, DS9 is my favorite Star Trek show. I loved the darker tone and the different setting - and I loved the characters. I always liked Miles on TNG and wished they could use him more. Sisko is great, as is the doctor. Kira originally struck me as Ro lite, but she really grew into her own and I ended up liking Kira more than Ro.

Of course, DS9 stole a bunch of stuff from Babylon 5, and since B5 is my all time favorite show it kind of makes sense that I'd love DS9 (despite the ethically challenged theivery).

The Orville is clearly based on TNG with a few bits from DS9 thrown in (as well as a few Star Wars bits, here and there, too). I guess what I love most about The Orville is that it is unabashedly a continuation of the TNG style and tone, with some irreverent humor thrown in. And there's even more of the social commentary that you saw on TOS than even TNG had.

I've got both seasons on DVD, and I've already watched them twice.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I’ll have to check out Babylon 5. I think DS9 is okay, but I think I’d enjoy B5 more knowing it’s the originator of that “style.” I’ll probably check it out soon.

Despite my criticism of Kira I do like the actress and she’s likable.

I’ve been wanting to get some kind of Orville merchandise. I’ll probably get the series in DVD just to have it. I wish they had some action figures. The only thing I find is Heroclix.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Two things about B5...

One, the first season will seem mediocre to you. But there are a TON of scenes and throwaway lines that aren't throwaways at all. They're hints that will go over your head until the 2nd or 3rd season. When you re-watch Season 1 after getting to the end it makes more sense and is actually more enjoyable. Still not great, but good and more enjoyable.

Two, the effects look like crap in the widescreen version. Warner Brothers and Doug Netter lost the master files for the effects so rather than doing actual upconversions from the original files they took the image, zoomed it, and cropped the top and bottom. When you're IN the story it's not a huge deal, but every now and then an effects or composite shot will look a little fuzzy and take you out of the moment. It's not a deal breaker, but it IS really disappointing. I can tell you that on first viewing on an old SDTV most of those shots looked amazing. B5 was the first TV show to use CGI for all of their visual effects, and they did a great job given their budget. But, blown up and cropped they don't hold up well on HDTV's.

But the stories are what really sets B5 apart. Once the main arcs start rolling the show is second to none in the big scale, multi-season storytelling department.

And I love the characters and dialogue. There are some great scenes in the show that are nothing but dialogue pushing the storyline forward. And the actors are fantastic (Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar deserved multiple Emmy's, but a show like B5 was never going to get any acting, directing, or writing nominations). Sadly, almost half of the actors in the main cast have died - all at age 60 or younger!

I can't recommend B5 highly enough. Just keep your expectations grounded. It's a slow burn, but the payoffs are great!

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

A couple of years ago, I posted these 140-character reviews to Twitter, back-to-back:

"Star Trek Discovery: franchise's latest sci-fi series with the biggest complaint about it is that it's not enough like traditional Star Trek"

"The Orville: sci-fi series from creator Seth MacFarlane with the biggest complaint about it is that it's too much like traditional Star Trek"

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

I'll take Orville's loving pastiche over Disco's try-hard grimdark any day.
I still manage to enjoy most of Disco, but Orville is just so much easier to watch.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Ditto everything B5Erik said about Babylon 5. However, seasons 2 through 4 is some of my favorite tv of all time. It’s worth it despite the warts.

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Just got a notice that Hulu cancelled The Orville.

Anyone see anything on this?

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

BS rumor. Where did you read this?

Re: Why The Orville is so great, and why it has a place on TV.
 

Was a google notification but disappeared when I went back to find it.