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Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

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Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Old 04-25-19, 12:05 PM
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Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19




THE DARK KNIGHT ARRIVES ON THE ALL-NEW SERIES FINALE OF "GOTHAM" THURSDAY, APRIL 25, ON FOX

Cameron Monaghan Guest-Stars

The series flash-forwards 10 years into the future, as Bruce is set to return to Gotham for the opening of the new Wayne Tower. A series of crimes leads Gordon to believe Penguin and The Riddler are up to their old tricks. However, when Bullock is framed for a murder, Gordon begins to piece together an even more sinister plot targeting the city, and a new figure emerges from the shadows to be the hero Gotham desperately needs in the all-new "The Beginning... " series finale episode of GOTHAM airing Thursday, April 25 (8:00-9:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (GTH-510) (TV-14 L, V)

Cast: Ben McKenzie as Detective James Gordon, Donal Logue as Detective Harvey Bullock, Morena Baccarin as Dr. Leslie Thompkins, Sean Pertwee as Alfred Pennyworth, Robin Lord Taylor as Oswald Cobblepot/The Penguin, Erin Richards as Barbara Kean, David Mazouz as Bruce Wayne, Camren Bicondova as Selina Kyle/the future Catwoman, Cory Michael Smith as Edward Nygma/The Riddler, Chris Chalk as Lucius Fox

Guest Cast: Cameron Monaghan as Jeremiah Valeska, Richard Kind as Mayor Aubrey James, Francesa Root-Dodson as Ecco, JW Cortes as Detective Alvarez, Kelcy Griffin as Detective Harper, Jeté Laurence as Barbara Lee Gordon




*
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Old 04-25-19, 10:09 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

meh
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Old 04-26-19, 06:57 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

I liked it. If anything I now wish we never got the show as it was and got this as the first episode of an actual Batman show. I really liked how they gave Riddler/Penguin some old-school comic relief. The shot of them scared when Batman was coming down was hilarious. Replacement Catwoman looked like Cameron 10 years older but the voice was way off.

Last edited by Noonan; 04-26-19 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 04-26-19, 08:00 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

I only watched 1-2 episodes when this first aired. It seemed to me early on they struggled with how to tell a pre-Batman story without digging up all the villains and Batman/Bruce.

The trailer for this finale seemed even worse, as they blended the villains with elements of the 60s show - landing somewhere between camp and serious.

Hopefully those who watched enjoyed it, but all the reviews and word from friends who watched any of it was very underwhelming.
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Old 04-26-19, 08:52 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by Superman07 View Post
I only watched 1-2 episodes when this first aired. It seemed to me early on they struggled with how to tell a pre-Batman story without digging up all the villains and Batman/Bruce.

The trailer for this finale seemed even worse, as they blended the villains with elements of the 60s show - landing somewhere between camp and serious.

Hopefully those who watched enjoyed it, but all the reviews and word from friends who watched any of it was very underwhelming.
It was definitely underwhelming if you're expectation was to see a lot of Bruce/BM. Only the final scene gave a real shot of him in costume and you never got to see him as Bruce older.

My only question is why, after 10 years, did that factory still have vats of the chemical??
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Old 04-26-19, 09:09 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by Superman07 View Post
I only watched 1-2 episodes when this first aired. It seemed to me early on they struggled with how to tell a pre-Batman story without digging up all the villains and Batman/Bruce.
I ended up with 2 seasons under my belt before pulling the plug.
It was obvious the main character was the one-note character Jim Gordon (and the actor that played him).
I got tired of him and his predictable ways after awhile and simply wanted to bitch-slap him every time he was on screen....what a putz.
However, Donal Logue, Sean Pertwee, Cory Michael Smith, and Robin Lord Taylor were all very good in their roles.
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Old 04-26-19, 09:20 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by melasnus View Post
It was obvious the main character was the one-note character Jim Gordon (and the actor that played him).
I got tired of him and his predictable ways after awhile and simply wanted to bitch-slap him every time he was on screen....what a putz.
My big problem with Gordon on this show was that he wasn't a righteous character; he was much more a self-righteous character. It was frequently very hard to root for him.
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Old 04-26-19, 03:01 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

This episode was pretty bad on several aspects and honestly I felt the previous episode ended up being a better send-off for the show.

Penguin's comment was definitely the highlight of the episode. Goodbye Gotham.
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Old 04-26-19, 04:19 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

I didn't find it terrible as a finale. Expected to see more of Batman on screen. I was surprised they kept Barbara Keen around ten years later and still mother to Barbara Gordon. That actress must have a lot of pull with the producers to stick around this long, well past her character's expiration date.

They really didn't know how to handle Bruce and Selina together this season. I can see why they avoided putting them together over the five seasons. The producers had no idea how to pull the relationship off.
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Old 04-26-19, 07:54 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

I don't really know what to think of this. I mean it was bound to let down pretty much everyone. Was ok I guess, but would have been nice to see either Bruce or more of Batman.

Wasn't the cracked lens of the spotlight supposed to look like a bat? Would have been be cool to see a bat-signal of some kind.
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Old 04-26-19, 10:39 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Needed another hour or two, went by too fast.
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Old 04-27-19, 09:51 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

It felt like the first half of a movie and then suddenly it was over without a conclusion. I liked the actress playing the older Selina, but her scene with Bruce/Batman was ridiculous because she never turned around to look at him. Seriously? After being apart for 10 years, she didn't want to look him in the eye? I suppose if we had seen Bruce, then the producers would have needed to cast an older actor to play the part. I don't see why Bruce stayed away for a decade. Did he really need more training, especially 10 years' worth? After 5 seasons of bad guys running Gotham (not to mention tearing it down in the final season), why run away for a decade instead of starting a career as a crime fighter right away? I really wish we had seen more of Batman in this episode than just the last shot. I know the producers always said the show would end when Batman appeared, but I didn't think they meant it so literally. And why were they forbidden to use the name Joker in this show? It's just a name for crying out loud. I thought surely we'd hear it once in the final episode, but nope. Fucking DC.

Similarly, why won't DC allow there to be a modern Batman TV show when they allow a big character like Superman to appear on Supergirl and in the movies? This episode felt like the series premiere of a spinoff Batman show, but we all know that will never happen. If there can be a TV version of the Man of Steel and a different movie version, why can't two different versions of the Caped Crusader (and Joker) exist at the same time?

The show wasn't perfect, but I'll miss its dark tone and humor and some of the characters like Penguin, Riddler, Selina and Alfred. I certainly enjoyed it more than I enjoy Supergirl with its modern day politics and Men in Black vibe. RIP Gotham.
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Old 04-27-19, 09:58 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

I'll miss it. It was never appointment watching for me but it was consistently enjoyable.

Kind of stupid how quickly Batman dispatches the Riddler, Penguin AND most importantly the big bad Joker. BOINK.
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Old 04-27-19, 11:22 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by gerrythedon View Post
Needed another hour or two, went by too fast.
I felt the same.

But I really enjoyed Gotham. I said it before - need a Penguin/Riddler half-hour comedy spin-off.
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Old 04-27-19, 05:03 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
need a Penguin/Riddler half-hour comedy spin-off.
All the Penguin/Riddler stuff reminds me of the Bugs Bunny/Daffy Duck cartoons where they go round and round trying to fuck each other over.
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Old 04-27-19, 11:56 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe View Post
Similarly, why won't DC allow there to be a modern Batman TV show when they allow a big character like Superman to appear on Supergirl and in the movies? This episode felt like the series premiere of a spinoff Batman show, but we all know that will never happen. If there can be a TV version of the Man of Steel and a different movie version, why can't two different versions of the Caped Crusader (and Joker) exist at the same time?

The show wasn't perfect, but I'll miss its dark tone and humor and some of the characters like Penguin, Riddler, Selina and Alfred. I certainly enjoyed it more than I enjoy Supergirl with its modern day politics and Men in Black vibe. RIP Gotham.
That says more about Warner's confidence in Superman going forward than anything else.

Batman is a proven box office winner and the theatrical division wants total control of the character in live-action entertainment. Superman hasn't really had a big smash movie now since the 1970s. It's almost certainly why Superman was allowed on the Supergirl show and why they even considered the possibility of a running Superman series. They aren't even working now on a possible Superman movie at the moment.

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Old 04-28-19, 12:26 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
That says more about Warner's confidence in Superman going forward than anything else.

Batman is a proven box office winner and the theatrical division wants total control of the character in live-action entertainment. Superman hasn't really had a big smash movie now since the 1970s. It's almost certainly why Superman was allowed on the Supergirl show and why they even considered the possibility of a running Superman series. They aren't even working now on a possible Superman movie at the moment.
That's what happens when you make shitty Superman movies.
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Old 04-28-19, 08:01 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
That says more about Warner's confidence in Superman going forward than anything else.

Batman is a proven box office winner and the theatrical division wants total control of the character in live-action entertainment. Superman hasn't really had a big smash movie now since the 1970s. It's almost certainly why Superman was allowed on the Supergirl show and why they even considered the possibility of a running Superman series. They aren't even working now on a possible Superman movie at the moment.
Yeah, Batman is a premium product. If you want to see him you have to buy a ticket. They don't want to cheapen his brand. It's called product image protection. The same reason you won't find Levis or Calvin Klein at Wal-Mart or Target.
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Old 04-29-19, 11:23 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe View Post
It felt like the first half of a movie and then suddenly it was over without a conclusion. I liked the actress playing the older Selina, but her scene with Bruce/Batman was ridiculous because she never turned around to look at him. Seriously? After being apart for 10 years, she didn't want to look him in the eye? I suppose if we had seen Bruce, then the producers would have needed to cast an older actor to play the part. I don't see why Bruce stayed away for a decade. Did he really need more training, especially 10 years' worth?


.
Carmen B who played Selina asked to be dropped from the final episode. David M who played Bruce made no such request, so I guess they thought it would be disrespectful to him to recast him .

And it actually makes sense, the show is not about Batman. It is about how Gotham became a place that needed Batman.

Why did BW stay away for a decade? Because Bruce on the show was a kid. Batman is a man not a teenager.

The time jump only made sense as a device to allow Batman to clearly be a fully grown man. Nobody else in the main cast really changed in any meaningful way. Except Penguin found the weight Selina lost.

It did not appear that anything had happened in any of their lives for a decade. They were all just waiting around for BW to return.
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Old 04-29-19, 12:26 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Batman is a proven box office winner and the theatrical division wants total control of the character in live-action entertainment. Superman hasn't really had a big smash movie now since the 1970s. It's almost certainly why Superman was allowed on the Supergirl show and why they even considered the possibility of a running Superman series. They aren't even working now on a possible Superman movie at the moment.
Although when Supergirl started, they didn't really allow Superman to appear except as an out of focus silhouette. He didn't fully appear until season 2, and even then, the writers would go out of their way to explain why Superman wasn't around. This is the first I've heard of a possible Superman series.
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Old 04-29-19, 12:30 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Meh episode. It just flew by then Batman showed up. Ok, if yu say so.

That said, I stuck with Gotham since day one but I'm not gonna throw the whole show away for a shitty finale. It's been a ride.
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Old 04-29-19, 12:31 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by eric f View Post
that's what happens when you make great superman movies but people want the same ole thing and reject it
fixed
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Old 04-29-19, 03:55 PM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
fixed
Really? Other than Superman 1/2, which were the "great" Superman movies? Man of Steel was probably the best one since 2 and that's not saying much. So it's been almost 40yrs since a great Superman movie has come out. That's a long time and I can see why the character has been neglected. It's a shame really.
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Old 04-30-19, 12:23 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

Originally Posted by big e View Post
Although when Supergirl started, they didn't really allow Superman to appear except as an out of focus silhouette. He didn't fully appear until season 2, and even then, the writers would go out of their way to explain why Superman wasn't around. This is the first I've heard of a possible Superman series.
The disappointing returns for Batman v Superman and Justice League hadn't happened yet, scuttling any plan for a Superman movie sequel. It was that sequence of events that almost certainly led to Superman's appearance on the CW.
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Old 04-30-19, 06:12 AM
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Re: Gotham (S5E12) -- Series Finale -- "The Beginning..." -- 4/25/19

When they brought Superman back to "Supergirl" this last time and cast a Lois Lane, I think fans started buzzing about a potential series, -I don't know that there was ever anything from Berlanti.
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