Remember the Ed Bradley interview where Jackson says he sees nothing wrong with him sharing his bed with children? It's sad that he really believed that.

That L&O episode where Adam Ferrara played the "Jackson" role is looking to be spot on.

Watched some of this. Can tell immediately they're telling the truth.

Jackson paid 25 million to Jordan Chandler and his family. Chandler described markings that checked out with markings on Jackson's penis.

I think Jackson most likely did not abuse Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman but rather used them as like celebrity PR agents.

When you have that much power and money you think you can get away with anything (See Machiavelli). This isn't unique to the rich and powerful in Hollywood. There are exploited people anytime someone is desperate to break into a closed system to seek their fame and fortune.

Don't be so sure about Culkin being safe just because of his fame. Drew Barrymore has been quite open about her horrible childhood and the drug and sex abuse she went through. I haven't read her autobiography in a while but I believe she was given alcohol and getting drunk at the age of 8, started and doing pills and coke around 12 and had sex with high level studio bosses around the same time. She survived the experience by the skin of her teeth but it took her nearly ten years to get sober, take control of her life and build her career.

Culkin went through his own drug and alcohol days but seems to have come out okay. Anytime these child stars start depending on drugs and alcohol to numb themselves from their lives you have to ask yourself what else is going on there that could be so bad?

Culkin and Feldman were probably busy making movies so they probably did not spend a lot of time at Neverland Ranch to get really close like the kids in the HBO doc

Not sure when he did this all the time

Not big mysteries: both of those assholes did it.

Avery case seems riddled with prejudice on behalf of the local LE and people there. Some jurors were relatives of Sheriff Dept, county clerk, etc. Netflix seemed to do a pretty good job, imo. I sort of thought he was guilty in the first episode until the documentary revealed how much several people from the town despised this guy. The murder of Teresa was probably done by somebody Avery knew.

I'd say replace with Avery with the JonBenet murder. We know the parents were involved in the murder (or accidental death), whether they covered it up or actually did it themselves, who knows, but they know who did it, and apparently are taking it to their graves. Which leads me to think they might be protecting the son. Son was jealous of his sister's attention, etc. Fits a really tight profile where it says the parents will protect their surviving child and then create a scene for LE to look "outward". Wouldn'tcha know...a ransom note. LE hasn't solved that case because of the same reason of the OJ case...bad investigating, district attorney issues, and lots of money.

Wait...you're saying he is choosing to rot in prison for the rest of his life rather than give up the murderer?
I'm gonna let this one lie...

If you are guilty like OJ and Jackson hire this guy and he will get you off

I finished the doc last night. I completely believe that Michael abused these men. Through his psychological manipulations, you get a good understanding as to why they did not speak up before against him. One point that was raised on the Oprah show was that Michael groomed them even before they met him. In fact, Michael groomed everyone creating this public image of a gentle man with a heart of gold. He had already preprogrammed a level of trust in people's minds so the parents never had their guard up. This is also why people still refuse to believe Michael committed these acts to this day.

But the focus of the doc was more than just about Michael. It showed how the damage of abuse affects the victims in adulthood and that was eye opening to me.

So, you never knew about the effects on victims of abuse (outside of MJ) before you saw this? That's sad and disheartening since it goes on every day. And it could involve your friends and/or family.

Not sure how I feel about this.. I read these guys testified in favour of Jackson before (maybe they were paid) but even after he passed they participated in tributes for him and one of them even campaigned to work as an MJ dancing choreographer

I grew up in a Christian home around good people so it's a world that thankfully has been foreign to me. I knew the abuse scars victims for life, but when they talk about how they saw their own children and wanting to kill anyone who dare touch their children and having images of their kid being with Michael, that showed me how the damage and pain hits on multiple levels.

On the Oprah show James Safechuck felt some guilt being on that show and he was betraying Michael though he abused him he still has love for him.

Watched part 1 Monday and had to take last night off because it was just too much. My wife who was a huge Jackson fan really wants to watch it tonight, but I'm not sure if I can handle another 2 hours of hearing how Jackson got his rocks off with little kids.

It's kinda fucked up how we as a society were willing to accept the narrative that was pushed about Michael never having a childhood and being emotionally stunted and really just a big kid, etc. I think part of it was that there weren't many public figures who'd been accused/convicted of pedophilia.

Hopefully no matter how big a star or how fucked up their parents/home-life was, we wouldn't be accepting of a 30 year old man who just wants to hang out and sleep in the same bed with 8 year old boys. I have a hard time believing that even the MJ defenders in this thread (who clearly haven't watched the doc) would be willing to let their kids hang out with a guy like that, no matter how good he was at dancing.

I am glad I grew out of his music after the Thriller era in 1984 and became a Prince fan who is ten times better than what Michael will ever be.

I used to be a huge MJ fan back in the day. Thriller came out during my teen-age years and I listened to it non stop. Now, I cannot bring myself to listen to any of his songs.

I was never a fan of MJ's music. In fact, I really hated it - even when Thriller was first released.

However, if I did like it - I doubt his being a piece of shit would stop me from listening.

Thriller was one of the first albums I ever bought and wore that thing out listening to it. I thought the rest of his body of work after Thriller was complete crap.

That's where I stand as well. I was the perfect age for Thriller an loved it. I wanted to like Bad so much but couldn't, and then most stuff after was completely underwhelming. Now, I'm not even all that big of a fan of Thriller. I think Off the Wall is fantastic still and of course the Jackson 5 stuff.

I haven't seen the documentary, but that's quite the article. Anyone seen and read them both care to weigh in?

Basically all of the stuff regarding Robson's testimony in 2005 and the memorial service are addressed in the documentary, although the lawsuit is not. He says he was terrified to send MJ to jail because he knew he die in prison and his kids would be left fatherless. He said he still loved Jackson and didn't want to hurt him or his family.

Safechuck in the documentary claims that he told his mom in 2005 when Jackson personally called him to testify and he refused, and she wanted to know why he wouldn't help out his friend. He swore her to secrecy. He only told his wife in 2011 when Robson went public.

Both have very similar stories, and incredibly complicated emotions about Michael to this day. Both said the catalyst for coming forward was when they had boys of their own. Robson said he had nightmares and visions of Jackson (already dead) doing the same he things he claims to his own son. I think even though they've come to understand the abuse they received, they can't help but still feel some fondness for him in some fucked up way. Highlights the life destroying powers that come from grooming and abusing boys for years from an incredibly early age.

I don't know how anyone could watch all 4 hours (the last 2 were much easier to get through, but much more emotional) and still think Jackson was innocent. There's too much evidence, too many details, and too much emotion from too many people to pass this off as a money grab.

Everyone agrees that Jackson was a fucking weirdo who hung out with little boys constantly and slept in bed with them alone almost nightly, and occasionally plied them with alcohol. I don't see how people are willing to draw some arbitrary line in the sand at "well I'm sure he didn't molest them".

Like, part of this isn't a huge surprise, as most everyone kinda knew MJ was skeevy and up to some shit.
But what's kind of a surprise is we didn't know just HOW gross and skeevy he was and the extent of his abuse. Just, ugh.

When you say "gross and skeevy", are you referring to the sexual acts? If so, I'm not sure how the acts would surprise anyone. How else would he have sex with boys?

What did surprise me was the level of manipulation, grooming, bribing and calculation that went into this. It's not just about someone who gave into his perverted temptations, but about someone who was just outright evil.