Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Thats what I'm thinking. I think Baelish had someone else in mind.

Does it need spoiler tags, since this is my speculation, and this situation is not in the books (the meeting between littlefinger/Queen of thorns)

I'm going to spoiler tag it..

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Sorry if this has been asked before, but by the end of this season will the TV show have caught up to the books?

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

No, that's not how it happened. When someone initially becomes religious, they are inwardly focused and trying to use religion to fix themselves. At this phase, Lancel would have confessed his own sins only and not named any names. Call this "Phase I" of going religious.

"Phase II" is if the religion works for this person, then they may ask other people they know to follow the same path. This is what happened in episode 1 of this season when Lancel asked Cersei to redeem herself in the light of the Seven.

And if they keep going and get into a closed group who reinforce their religious viewpoint, then the person will enter "Phase III" where they are hardcore religious and want to apply their religious rules to everybody with no exceptions. When Lancel got that 7-pointed star carved on his forehand is when he hit this level.

If asked about Cersei while still Phase I or II, Lancel probably would've avoided pointing fingers and said "go ask her yourself" instead. But once Phase III, pointing fingers and applying your religious views to everyone else is what it's all about. So once the High Sparrow asked him about Cersei after he received a message from Lady Olenna informing him about Lancel & Cersei's relationship, Lancel would've told him everything and named her as a sinner who needed to be brought down to repent.


(How do I know all this? I live in the South.)

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Some of the story lines have surpassed the books. Others I think will be caught by the end.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Yup, but there's also the possibility (perhaps unlikely) that they are saving a few storylines to use next season just to have a real connection to already-published material. Unlikely since they're already excising characters & plots & combining others, but some events may be delayed if they aren't changed. Or they might do their own riff on those events even if a straight adaptation isn't attempted. Don't expect to see the Iron Islands saga coming into play, though, since there is a lot to do if D&D stick to their avowed plan to finish in 7 seasons.

And isn't there also the possibility that they have access to whatever GRRM has written for Book 6, meaning that they can be adapting the unedited drafts although those may change before publication? In other words, they may be caught up to the published books, but they obviously know a lot more about GRRM's planned endgame & outlines along with having his input. It's not like they're just striking out totally in the dark or that GRRM hasn't produced a lot of narrative for Book 6 (especially since some chapters have evidently been published online).

Now, Season 7 will be an entirely different animal unless GRRM is writing it simultaneously since he does a lot of chapters out of the published sequence (I think he said that he put off writing the RW chapter, for instance, because it pained him even though he had written many following chapters).

Since many think GRRM will end up going beyond the planned seven books, it seems inevitable that, at some point, the show will be operating pretty much solely upon a streamlined outline, leaving Martin to continue his saga as long as he wants a la Robert Jordan.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I know they have access to GRRM's plans and whatnot, but are they really going to spoil main plots from the books next season? I'm sure the book series is popular enough that it wouldn't take that much of a hit if stuff was spoiled, but as a writer I'm sure that's a tough sell for GRRM, to see someone get to the same endpoint he's trying to get to but faster and in a different way.

Or are we going to get what usually happens in Japan, when the anime catches up to the manga series before it's over and the anime writers just make up their own ending (or put in a ton of filler)?

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I suppose the concept of taking a year off is alien to HBO, even though several of their original shows did this years ago (not counting True Detective since that's a separate cast), and Breaking Bad and Mad Men did this repeatedly. These days climate is different and this show has child actors, but that's still an outside possibility.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Yes.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

They could take a year off and do a Robert's Rebellion prequel, or something to that effect.

But at rate Martin is writing, it's going to take more than a year. TWoW won't be out this year; maybe next year, maybe not. I just don't see any way that the seventh book comes out before 2020 when Martin is taking five years+ to do each book.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

There's no fucking way this show is taking a year off. It just ain't going to happen.

This show will be passing GRRM soon and nothing is stopping that. (And given how his last 2 books in the series came out, that may be a good thing.)

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I bet we do get prequels, though, but it'll be after the main story is done. Maybe Robert's Rebellion, but there'd be a lot of re-casts going that route. I'd like to see (or read) stories of the First Men and their interactions with The Children. Like Tolkien, there's a lot of "history" that could be used for future stories.

Edit to say: none of us ultimately know how this will all end, though. It could eventually turn out to be a big clusterfuck and kill any willingness to see future stories in this world.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Also agree there is no way they are taking a year off. Frankly at recent pace, it's more likely the fat man dies before finishes the books. Too many cast members also to risk a big delay.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

They have already spoiled some major plot points already this season. And had a MAJOR future spoiler from the books last year.

Time and alignment of events in ASOIAF is ephemeral in both the books and the series. By the end of this season they will be caught up, way ahead and holding some storylines in reserve all at the same time. And except for one storylines collide it does not really matter.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

There is just no way that HBO skips a year of GOT. I suspect that end in the end they will do this:

Season 6

Extended Season 7 (maybe 16-20 episodes to contain costs)

One of two theatrical movies to finish the series. The IMAX showings earlier this year was a very successful test balloon. Movies may only use B&W as executive producer support.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

A season covering Robert's Rebellion would introduce a number of new characters like Rhaegar Targaryen, Aerys "The Mad King" Targaryen, Lyssa Stark, Rickard Stark, Brandon Stark, Hoster Tully, Howland Reed, Jon Arryn, and Elia Martell.

Most of the established characters who would appear like Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, and Jaime Lannister would need to be recast since they were teenagers at the time. The two actors I could see reprising his role would be Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister and the fellow who plays Barriston Selmay. And possibly Howland Reed if we've already seen him and don't yet know it.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Interesting speculation but...

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

What about

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

If that's the case, Season 7 will air backward from ep. 10 to ep. 1.

Ah, D&D just go ahead & film their own plots & finish the series.

And in five years when GRRM finishes (assuming he's still alive & actually ends with Book 7), they'll just shoot new scenes, hit the editing room, & then re-release the DVDs as "director's cuts" or "extended versions."

The project will be overseen by Oliver Stone, Peter Jackson, and George Lucas. With Ridley Scott acting as technical advisor.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

As I understand it, only people with at least one actual Targaryen ancestor in their family tree can have a legitimate claim on the Iron Throne. So any living Targaryens have a claim, of course, as well as the Baratheons due to the fact that the grandfather of Robert/Stannis/Renly married a Targaryen princess, who became their grandmother.

Anyone else who wants to sit on the Iron Throne would have to win it militarily and seize it by force through warfare from the current royal ancestral line and would probably have to kill everyone in the previous ancestral line as well. While there are 7 kingdoms in Westeros in which someone could have a legitimate ancestral claim to just one or more of those kingdoms, the ruler on the Iron Throne is the overall ruler of all of Westeros and the ruler of each of the individual 7 kingdoms are subservient to whoever the current ruler is on the Iron Throne.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I think Robert's rebellion would be quite dull to see, no real backstory and we know all the major events except maybe for

However, the Dunk and Egg books could be adapted into quite a fun year long miniseries.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I've been thinking that we haven't actually seen the iron throne at all this season...is that correct? When was the last time we had a scene in that room?

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Yep, you're right. We haven't seen the Iron Throne since Tyrion's trial, which was the sixth episode of Season 4.

Interesting to note who has actually sat on the Iron Throne on the show:

- Ned Stark
- Cersei Lannister
- Joffrey Baratheon
- Tommen Baratheon
- Tywin Lannister

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

So Robert Baratheon was never shown sitting on the Iron Throne?

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

In the Sansa & Theon/Reek scene, Sansa mentions that Ramsay locks her in her room. But why didn't Sansa get out of the room when Theon/Reek unlocked the door to bring her meal and then go put the candle in the broken tower window herself? She could've even locked Theon/Reek in the room while she was gone so that he couldn't tell anyone before she returned.

(And also I would think that she would know secret passageways in Winterfell to escape on her own and then could go to Winter Town to hide out with Stark loyalists.)

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

My guess is guards might be aware that she's not supposed to be out of her room, while Reek has more freedom of movement.

Secret passageways would work, assuming there are any and assuming she knew where they were. That's the kind of thing kids might learn about in their teenage years, which Sanda largely spent outside Winterfell.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I'm curious who the heck actually cares about secession? Ned basically declared Stannis the rightful heir and Cersei just tore it up, and then the various houses rallied around whoever they wanted to.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

In societies lead by a monarch or an emperor / empress, line of succession is important to prevent a nation from descending into civil war between different claims on the throne after the previous ruler dies. Pretty much the only times a peaceful transfer of power occurs in these societies is if a particular line of succession is already well recognized throughout the land.

Even though we viewers of the show know that Stannis has a better claim by birthright than Cersei's children to the Iron Throne after the death of King Robert, the fact is there is no solid evidence that Cersei's children aren't actually Robert's children. Cersei has never publically confessed to it and hair color alone isn't enough evidence, given that the children could've gotten that trait from their mother. King Robert never doubted they were his children and that should have settled it within the realm (at least until Qyburn invents DNA testing ;) ).

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Why did they even recognize Robert's claim to the throne when there were two direct descendants in exile? It still seems to me like an excuse for the powerful lords to back one side or another, and that that backing is all that really matters.

Will the people really rise up when Dany comes back in her support, or just the people cowed by her dragons and against the current rulers, whoever they may be?

edited to add: deleted the last paragraph because I was confused which episode thread this was.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Still too warm for them go further south. There's also some other theories around why they attacked when they did.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

In the very first scene of the series, how far north of the wall were they? It didn't seem that far away from the wall, considering that one ranger made it all the way back all by himself.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Somewhere in the haunted forest:

large map:

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Robert's Rebellion overthrew the Targaryen line by defeating its supporters in battles over a year or so and eventually killing every Targaryen still in Westeros (save the forgotten Aemon). The only 2 Targaryens who escaped with their lives, Viserys and Daenerys, were too young and had no supporters at the time because the Mad King (their father) had turned so many people in Westeros against him, so they had to live in exile overseas. Once they were older is when Viserys started trying to marshal forces to support his claim and invade Westeros to overthrow the upsurper, Robert Baratheon and his entire line of succession. Viserys marrying Daenerys to Khal Drogo was his attempt to follow through on this using a Dothraki army to invade Westeros and take back the crown.

And the Iron Throne didn't exist until the Targaryens invaded and conquered 6 out of the 7 kingdoms in Westeros (save Dorne, which only fell under the Iron Throne via marriage many years later) about 300 years earlier. So only Targaryens have ever sat on the Iron Throne since then up until the Mad King.

As to why Robert could claim the birthright to sit on the Iron Throne over other Lords in Westeros after winning his rebellion, his grandmother was a Targaryan princess so he had being partially descended from Targaryen royalty to legitimize his claim (and any other Baratheon's succession claims) over other Lords who might also have tried to claim the throne. (This is mentioned in some DVD/BD extras for Season 1 when Robert narrates some animated backstory.)

Technically, Daenerys being a real Targaryen directly descended from the last Targaryen king has a stronger claim to the Iron Throne than any Baratheon, but claims mean little without support. Having dragons means she won't need as large an army to invade and win the crown, but the dragons would need to be larger than they are now and fully under her control to help make an invasion of Westeros succeed.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

You need book spoilers if you want to know more :)