Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Can someone refresh my memory? For some reason, I thought that Sam had lost the dragonglass knife. I seem to remember him dropping it after killing the white walker and just leaving it there. I could be completely wrong though...

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

:lol:

and here's an audible version of that rimshot emoticon

<iframe width="320" height="240" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9CdVTCDdEwI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

That's fine, but it still leaves open the question of how they found the old lady, unless she was the one leading her to Brienne (which would make more sense than Brienne navigating her own way to Sansa's room).

I know, I'm just supposed to accept it and not ask questions. :)

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

He has a bag full of them. He found more than one.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Maybe she knew exactly how long it would take to act or noticed some subtle symptoms kicking in.

Ramsay might have known it was the old woman who told her to put the candle in the tower because it seems like the Boltons are limiting the contact Sansa has with the other Northerners, and the old woman was one of the few, if not the only, person she had been in contact with unsupervised.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Well, then it wasn't really that special of a gift to Jon, was it? Thanks a lot, Sam! :mad:

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Dragonglass is obsidian, so it's probably not too uncommon. If it's something can kill white walkers, then they're probably making some weapons out of it.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Stannis said they had obsidian in Dragonstone, so not rare, but maybe not common in the area of the Wall and north of it.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I thought it was fairly obvious how Ramsay knew it was the old woman. Reek took him the candle and Ramsay turned it over to the Maester who ran DNA tests on it. After accounting for Reek and Sansa's DNA on the candle the only other person was the old woman.
Or at least that's how it would have been solved on CSI.

With the poison and Bronn it could be that as his heart started beating faster the poison would have spread quicker. Now the antidote working that quick is a little problematic.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I think that's what the show wants us to assume is how Ramsay figured it out the old woman who told this to Sansa, but I still think it's a bit flawed. Because Sansa could've set up a signal arrangement with loyal locals outside of Winterfell, such as in Winter Town, before she even entered the lair of the beast that is the current Winterfell. Sansa already knew how Roose Bolton double-crossed her brother so her making such an arrangement isn't farfetched just because she didn't know how bad Ramsay was until it was too late.

But I think the show wants a simpler situation there so that the old woman is gone and Sansa now has very limited options for getting help inside the walls of Winterfell.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

It didn't clear things up for me... Cersei basically said that he couldn't do an all out assault because Margery would get hurt, but the perfect time to save her would've been before they seized her. I guess she couldn't exactly say this to her son, or maybe she didn't think of it herself, but I figured the main reason he couldn't attack is because everyone suspects he's a bastard and a product of incest, and not the true heir to the throne.

I actually liked that they gave a hint to the passage of time. I can believe it's been a few years, but it's hard to tell in the series (especially the travel time), so at least they acknowledged that all these things happened over years and not months. I also liked that Stannis was aware of the passage of time too, and that he realized he could get stuck for years in Castle Black.

As for the Stark supporter, I figured she went up to get the candle or something. Ramsay did say that she basically died before she could really give up her secrets, so hopefully she was the only one caught (I didn't know if she was the only one flayed up there)

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

That scene annoyed me, when he gave the bag to Jon Snow, pulls one out, and Sam says "Dragonglass - it's what I used to kill the white walker." That line was completely unnecessary. Jon Snow knows what it is, and what Sam accomplished with it. Anyone who watches the show seriously already knows what it is, and what it can do. The whole line was put in there to remind viewers who don't pay close enough attention, and dumbs down the show in the process.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I think it's fine to remind the audience what it is, why does it dumb down the show?

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

As for the old woman being caught. I figured after Reek told Ramsay about it the bastard questioned every person who didn't work for the Bolton's pre-Winterfell and had one-on-one contact with Sansa. Seems like the logical thing to do when you suspect a conspiracy. Question the most obvious people first and it was probably a short list, possibly only the old woman.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

There is a ton of stuff on this show that could be covered better, that they don't need to waste time covering things that are already known to both the actors on the show, and the audience watching (IMHO, of course)

How did Ramsay figure out it was the old woman trying to help Sansa? Is Ellaria Sand also in the prison with the Sand Snakes and Bronn? How much time passed between when Bronn was poisoned and got the antidote? Is Brienne working with other northerners, or are she and Pod acting alone? Did Lancel tell the High Sparrow about his own deviant actions in the past when he told about Cersei? Where the hell is Gendry, anyway?

I feel (imho, of course) they should have the covered the dragonglass like they did with Ghost's appearance this episode. He showed up, growled, and the bad guys ran. The characters on the show, and the audience both know who Ghost is, even though he isn't in the show very often. They could have had Sam say "Thanks for saving us, Ghost, Jon Snow's direwolf that he had since Winterfell" to remind the audience of why this wolf suddenly came out of nowhere, but thankfully they didn't.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

If that annoyed you, you must be annoyed with every show since they all do something very similar to this. I'm sure GoT does it all the time.

It's an important plot point and to a degree, shows will always cater to those that haven't seen every episode or don't pay close attention.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I just kind of skimmed over the comments about Bronn and the poison, and it seems to me (without having read the books) that the girl (as someone touched on before) intentionally got his blood going faster to get him in a state where he knew he was going to die, and she used her sexuality to give him something to look forward to if he lives. She gave him the antidote, told him she thinks he's handsome, he's grateful to be living...I think she's planning on using him in some way, to get him on their side for some plan they've got. Or, if not a plan, then to just have an ally. I think she saw his worth during their fight.

By the way, I couldn't help but notice this time around that nobody is saying that Ramsay didn't rape Sansa. :lol:

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I saw a review of this episode that criticized Littlefinger's information "gift" to Lady Olenna about Lancel's secret affair with Cersei being useless because the reviewer assumes that Lancel would've already told the High Sparrow everything about the affair.

But thinking about it, I disagree with this viewpoint. No doubt Lancel confessed to sinning when he got all religious, but I don't think he would've named names unless directly asked. So I think only when Lady Olenna passing this information on to the High Sparrow did he then go ask Lancel directly if it was true. And only after the High Sparrow had that confirmed is when he set up his trap to spring once Cersei visited the Great Sept again.

Also Lancel is the son of Kevan Lannister, Tywin's brother who was upset with Cersei earlier this season (in this Small Council scene) and abruptly left King's Landing to return to Casterly Rock. So I wonder if he will now return to King's Landing due to what's going on or if that storming off scene was just to get him completely out of the picture. (He does say in this scene that he will only respond if King Tommen himself summons him.)

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Have to agree with Mad Monk. There are quite a few things going on that require prior knowledge, but I think he was saying that the point was too obviously made. Less obvious would be Sam handing the dragonglass to Jon and saying, "In case you meet a White Walker." Or even just have Jon say, "Dragonglass" and look at Sam appreciatively. Ah, well...it's a minor point.

It does bring up something that may concern others beside myself. I think that D&D have done a masterful job of adapting the saga thus far & have been mostly on target with the newly-created scenes. However, even if they are mostly trying to follow GRRM's outline for the concluding bits, it's hard for the scriptwriters to match GRRM's clever dialogue. It's like someone trying to take an unfinished novel & finish it from the author's raw notes...you might be able to emulate the style, but if everyone could write as well as GRRM, GoT wouldn't stand out from the crowd as much.

Just something I've wondered...if the writers will be able to approximate his dialogue as well as plot twists. I like what the show has done with changes for the most part...and think the Sansa story is a big improvement in many ways, for instance...but wish GRRM would be willing to serve as script consultant to help tweak the dialogue since it seems obvious that any hope of having his work (even in rough form) to rely upon is long gone. They may be able to mine some scenes from Book 6 drafts, but after that it seems that they will be in totally uncharted territory re: having anything firm to adapt.

Wouldn't it make sense that a psychopath/sociopath such as Ramsay (with Roose's approval) wouldn't hesitate to just choose anyone to serve as an example (regardless of whether the person was actually guilty)? It wouldn't be as strong a message to Sansa, but it would serve as an effective deterrent to anyone else considering helping her.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Now that's a good "gift" reference that makes sense. Also, good explanation about Lancel. I had been wondering why they wouldn't have taken Cersei much earlier given Lancel's involvement and conversion.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

To the people of King's Landing, Tommen must look like a chump. I imagine he has to do something at this point.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Didn't the Littlefinger/Olenna meeting happen after Lady Olenna met with the High Sparrow? IOW, it doesn't seem as if Olenna (or Littlefinger) were the source of the info on Cersei. Nor, of course, did they need to be, as Lancel knew all that was needed.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

If you remember past seasons, Margaery is quite popular with the people. I'm surprised that they haven't shown the people being upset with her in prison.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Many here are too young to remember but in Vietnam the women used to insert razorblades up their hoohoo to maim any American soldier that bought their services. I wonder what a corkscrew would do inserted the same way. It would give a new meaning to popping the cork...

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

But Lancel would have had to admit his sins, and even if he kept it vague that would include incest and murder; how the heck did Cersei not see this coming?

I did like that the High Sparrow said basically that forgiveness comes if you admit guilt (though there will still be punishment), and it's something that I don't think Cersei would ever do (and if she did, I'd think conspiring to kill the king would get her head on the block anyway).

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

There have certainly been times on the show where the passage of time has been completely erratic and nonsensical. For instance, the time from the end of the Blackwater battle and when Davos is picked up on that rock in S3E1 could only be a few days, a week at the most. Yet Dany's dragons have grown massive in that time. Littlefinger's transporting up and down Westeros all throughout Season 2 was also oddly handled.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I'm willing to let the wonky timeline go because I'm having so much fun with the show otherwise.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I assume Lady Olenna just wrote the information on a sealed scroll and sent it to the High Sparrow, much the same way she got that message from Littlefinger to go meet him. So she didn't give the info to the High Sparrow directly in-person.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

possibly. But it certainly isn't clear that happened.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I realized there was a subtle dig at Margaery when Cersei visited her in the Great Sept's dungeon.

In her one act of apparent kindness, Cersei brought some food (venison) for Margaery and told her that it's good and that Cersei "had it herself for supper just last night."

Call back to last season when, during her wedding ceremony to Joffery (pre-ending of that short-lived marriage), Margaery made the proclamation that the leftovers from the wedding reception would be given to the poor and needy.

Now, in the dungeon, Cersei gave Margaery her leftovers which is basically a slap in the face saying "A-ha! Now you're the poor and needy."

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Or Arya apprenticing at the House of Black and White. It would be ridiculous to have her all schooled up in a couple episodes, and the only way to show anything approaching a sensible amount of time passing is to let her story drag for a while. But then come the complaints about her story stagnating

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I thought Brienne told her to light the candle, and the old lady just gave a general message of support. So the old lady wouldn't even have known about the candle in the window message thing (or Brienne), so had nothing to give up to Ramsay. As for Ramsay choosing her to flay, he probably just made an educated guess. She was an old-timey Winterfell resident who had routine contact with Sansa, and either way the point to Sansa was made. Ramsay would still have no idea about Brienne being out there.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Ah, I didn't even realize that the candle was from Brienne... I know she asked that a message be relayed to Sansa, but I think because the old lady had basically revealed herself as a Stark loyalist before Brienne had come along, I figured they were separate. I was wondering why they showed her looking out the window.

See, I need more handholding, not less! :)

I had a question about the Dany storyline. So they continually say Mereen is a free city, but I'm confused, are the great games going to allow slaves to fight, like what Dany just witnessed out in the boonies? I thought the whole point was that the former slaves were free to make their own choice, if they want to fight in the pits?

Also, I found it a bit odd that she was squeemish about men killing each other for sport, but had no problem watching a perhaps innocent man get eaten alive by her dragons.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I might be wrong about the candle though. I can't remember for certain. It sounds good though.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

plus the stag is the banner of Robert Baratheon. I thought Cersei was rubbing it into the face of Margaery that she is able to destroy whoever gets in her way.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Kinda lame they showed a seemingly major scene in the season preview with Dany we haven't even seen yet...and it seems obvious what will happen there. She hasn't given her wheel speech yet either has she?

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

nope.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

I think the old lady gave Sansa the candle, and told her about lighting it in the tower, but it was Brienne's plan, the old lady was the messenger.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

Yeah, I was trying to figure out a venison <--> Baratheon "stag" sigil connection that would've been meaningful to Margaery. Maybe Robert, although not sure how much Margaery would be concerned about him given that she benefited from his demise. Maybe Tommen, saying that Cersei still controls that branch of the (official, though not biological) Baratheon line. Cersei was definitely trying to say something with that choice of food.

Re: Game of Thrones (S5E07) -- "The Gift" -- 5/24/15
 

The Mountain and The Hound