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Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

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Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Old 05-06-15, 01:17 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

I think that they have shown that Joan has skill, but the point of her story is that she is trapped in the old world.
Old 05-06-15, 01:18 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Joan is a hugely competent office manager, and extremely organized, both are pretty rare so I'm thinking she worked her way up quite well, but in a very limited career path.
Old 05-06-15, 02:32 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by DthRdrX View Post
Fairly obvious she got that position because of her relationship with Roger. I'm sure many of the secretaries could have excelled at office management if Joan wasn't put over them to begin with.
Or under as the case may be.
Old 05-06-15, 03:24 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

I think they point they were going for is despite her obvious business talents, the only talent that mattered in that larger world, was going to be body and ability in bed. After all her little successes while with the smaller firm, she was back to being nothing but a sex object at the big firm. Roger made it clear that if that was going to be a problem for her, better to take half the money and run before it gets worse. And it could only get worse.
Old 05-06-15, 03:41 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Roger made it clear that if that was going to be a problem for her,
At that point, there was no going back. Her showdown ended her work there.
It was just a question of taking them to court or not and Roger let her know that court would take years, a lot of legal fees and even then she might not get her full amount. Taking half was sadly her only "option."
Old 05-06-15, 07:21 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by albert_m View Post
At that point, there was no going back. Her showdown ended her work there.
It was just a question of taking them to court or not and Roger let her know that court would take years, a lot of legal fees and even then she might not get her full amount. Taking half was sadly her only "option."
We'll never know, but it sure seemed like they were steering her towards taking a lesser role. Not so sure she couldn't have talked her way back if she was willing to apologize and accept the role they were giving her. She did have some pull with multiple client$.
Old 05-07-15, 06:53 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Only the original 5 cast members know the ending of the show:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7217730.html

I am trying to figure out what 5 original members, as I am counting 6?

-Don
-Peggy
-Roger
-Pete
-Joan
-Betty?
Old 05-07-15, 08:15 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

The original five (Credit named) stars of the show were: Jon Hamm, Vincent Kartheiser, January Jones, Christina Hendricks, and Maggie Siff.

But since they've already closed out the Siff storyline, I would assume they were referencing Moss.

John Slattery was a recurring guest star for the first season, I'm not sure that he counts as an "original cast member".
Old 05-07-15, 08:18 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by Coral View Post
Don checking out the strength of the window in his new office - foreshadowing his death from the intro as we suspected might be the case? I'm guessing it's too easy - the show has teased us many times in the past with things that almost feel like a sure thing, only to go a different route.
Originally Posted by Jack Straw View Post
That's correct. But he can refuse to work there, or be fired for being a flake who disappears for days without telling anyone. Then what happens with his 49% share of SC&P?
Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
-And what was up with Don looking out the window of his office as it seems like he was looking down? Now I scoff at my friends who say someone will jump in the final episode to mirror the person jumping in the opening credits.
!
i quoted these in the wrong order and now my iPad doesn't want to let me move Jack's post to the end.

@Jack: Does Don have 49% of SCP? It seems more likely that the original partners would have 49% total and the new firm would have 51% to have a controlling interest.

@Coral and mcnabb, there was a whistle or hiss in Don's office, like you would get from a loose seal or slightly open window on A high floor of a building. He seemed to be investigating that.
Old 05-07-15, 08:29 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

I still think going that route would be too on the nose, even for this show (subtlety is one thing it never really mastered).
Old 05-07-15, 09:39 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
Only the original 5 cast members know the ending of the show:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7217730.html

I am trying to figure out what 5 original members, as I am counting 6?

-Don
-Peggy
-Roger
-Pete
-Joan
-Betty?
Is it the 5 that they show sitting around the table before each show reminiscing?

Don
Pete
Peggy
Roger
and who is the fifth? Is it Joan?
Old 05-07-15, 09:49 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
@Coral and mcnabb, there was a whistle or hiss in Don's office, like you would get from a loose seal or slightly open window on A high floor of a building. He seemed to be investigating that.
Yes, I heard that as well. All the more reason I still think it's just to tease us into thinking he'll somehow fall/jump out the window in the finale. As said - way too "on the nose" for this show.
Old 05-07-15, 10:12 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by VitiminJ View Post
Is it the 5 that they show sitting around the table before each show reminiscing?

Don
Pete
Peggy
Roger
and who is the fifth? Is it Joan?
Yes its Joan. I'm trying to remember when January Jones was on either Fallon or Conan a few weeks ago, and she said that she was happy with Betty's story arc. Now that may mean that Betty's story ends this week, and she isn't in the final episode so she may not know how Don's story ends?
Old 05-07-15, 10:47 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

That sounds likely.
Old 05-07-15, 12:55 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

I don't know why people think the intro means Don is going to literally jump out a window. He also ends up on a couch directly after the fall, to which my friend (who wasn't even a regular viewer, but is now) offhandedly remarked "Don Draper always lands on his feet." That makes way more sense to me, and not towards the finale, but to his character in general.
Old 05-07-15, 01:10 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Yeah I never once got that vibe from this show. Some places try to play Don Draper up as an "Anti-hero" which is wrong as well, sure he cheats on his women and lied his way out of a war, but overall is a pretty good guy.
Old 05-07-15, 01:26 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Yeah, the only way Don dies at the end is if it's a flash-forward to modern times with him dying of old age.
Old 05-07-15, 05:17 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
i quoted these in the wrong order and now my iPad doesn't want to let me move Jack's post to the end.

@Jack: Does Don have 49% of SCP? It seems more likely that the original partners would have 49% total and the new firm would have 51% to have a controlling interest.

@Coral and mcnabb, there was a whistle or hiss in Don's office, like you would get from a loose seal or slightly open window on A high floor of a building. He seemed to be investigating that.
Sorry, I meant the remaining 49% of his (Don's) share, not of the total pie. I concur with your understanding mj23.
Old 05-08-15, 12:28 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Don is accustomed to being the king of the hill and being appreciated as a artist.

That's what McCann is telling him they want but, at that meeting, he saw he was just another guy at the table. McCann isn't interested in letting him nap and go to the movies and ruminate over an account until he comes up with his singular vision.

Even though that meeting was about Miller Lite, leading every one to wonder if Don was going to get credit for the "great taste versus less filling" ad campaign, I noticed all the Coke cans around the table. I wonder if they are going to use Don's journey as an excuse for him coming up with "I'd like to buy the world a Coke / teach the world to sing"
Agreed, not only that but in the meeting the client was leading the way in telling McCann what they wanted, rather than the other way around. Don is used to telling the client what they want.

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
I think that is a complete misrepresentation of Joan's journey, and a complete misunderstanding of what it was like to be a "career woman" in the 1950s and 60s ( and 70s).

Joan excelled at the role society prescribed for her when the show began. Women in the office were secretaries, and Joan rose to the top of that rank.

Remember when Joan proved so adept helping Harry Crane, proving they needed to expand his department, and they went out and hired a man.

The British never valued Joan as a professional, so she pursued the obvious course for a woman at that time. She married a professional man. But she already had a sense of her own worth in a workplace and itched to get back into it.

When SCDP was established, Joan proved her worth to the men and was rewarded with more professional responsibility. However, she was never given the respect she was due in that role.

What special professional skills did Lane Pryce have that made him valuable enough to be a name partner in SCDP?

Joan fucked guy to get her partnership, but is there any doubt that she was important enough to the running of SCDP that she deserved to be more than employee?

If Joan had limits on what she envisioned for herself, what she could achieve, and how far she could go in the advertising business, that was because she lived in a world where women were constantly being told that there were limits and that they should not have such aspirations.

Peggy represents the New Woman of the 1970s because she is young enough that she can take advantage of the doors that are being opened.

Joan is just at the tail end of the previous generation. She's just a decade older than Peggy but too old to access the opportunities now coming to women at the start of the 70s.
Agreed, I think some of the downplaying in Joan's role in the company because she "just slept with a guy to get where she is" disregards the circumstances of the time. This episode was a perfect example, despite her status, clients, etc. McCann still sided with the junior account executive after he screwed up the call, because "he has a wife and kids," and "how would it look if he worked for a woman."
Old 05-08-15, 02:25 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by msdmoney View Post
Agreed, I think some of the downplaying in Joan's role in the company because she "just slept with a guy to get where she is" disregards the circumstances of the time. This episode was a perfect example, despite her status, clients, etc. McCann still sided with the junior account executive after he screwed up the call, because "he has a wife and kids," and "how would it look if he worked for a woman."
On the Mary Tyler Moore Show, there was an episode where Mary discovered that she earned less than the man who had her job before her, and the explanation was that the guy was married and had kids.

There was also an episode about whether Mary really had authority over the men in the office as her job title would indicate.
Old 05-08-15, 08:07 AM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Well, I think this covers two potential endings that won't be happening:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://teamcoco.com/embed/v/89084#playlist=x;eyJ0eXBlIjoicmVsYXRlZCIsImlkIjo4OTA4NH0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Last edited by RichC2; 05-08-15 at 08:14 AM.
Old 05-09-15, 09:05 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Question I had: Was it a thing for maids/staff to refer to themselves in third person? Betty's maid said "Here she is" in reference to herself when she was being called.
Old 05-09-15, 09:44 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

Originally Posted by bluetoast View Post
Question I had: Was it a thing for maids/staff to refer to themselves in third person? Betty's maid said "Here she is" in reference to herself when she was being called.
The door bell rang.
Betty called out "Loretta." As in, Loretta get the door.
Loretta walks into the kitchen saying "Here she is" speaking to Don who was behind her.
The "she" was Betty. You are looking for Betty. Here she is in the kitchen.
Old 05-09-15, 11:55 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

*Note* The May 10 episode is 71 minutes and the series finale on May 17 is 75 minutes long.

Also, the series will run in its entirety as a marathon beginning this Wednesday, May 13, at 6 pm Eastern time. That runs all the way up to the series finale.
Old 05-10-15, 12:03 PM
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Re: Mad Men (S7E12) -- "Lost Horizon" -- 5/3/15

I have to say, these last few episodes have been horrible and time-fillers at best. Seems like Weiner knows the ending and is just trying to limp along until he gets there. This episode especially was terrible and proves if nothing else, Weiner really loves that Sopranos ending. What a shell of a show this is now.

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