Oh, and by the way ... What is up with breaking into somebody's house and hiding in a closet over some damned cookies?! This kid needs to look at the flowers.

If only Daryl wanted Carol's cookies this bad ...

Seems like a fine line between honest development and doing it just for some quick sympathy. I thought some of Beth's development was more honest, but others felt it wasn't warranted and a waste of time. Noah's death just seemed too soon.

The cast was too big anyway IMO. I do continue to find it amusing that they quickly introduce,kill, and replace black characters.

You are right Fumanstan, it can be a fine line. Often you can't tell until after you have seen what is going to happen next. Had Noah survived this episode, his meeting with Reg would have been criticized as a waste of time. As it stands, it came of as "a trick." I suppose the real way to distinguish is by asking "what did it add to the character?" Learning about his family and home were development; his relationship with Beth was development; eating oatmeal and wanting to be an architect didn't add anything.

His death scene only had power because of Glen's reaction. Not because of what it means to the show.

I think that's the point though. The minor characters on this show are just cannon fodder for moving the main cast stories further and further. Theme moves towards the characters being doomed, ready or not.

More difficult to watch and accept if you are used to clear 'concise' characters arcs regarding both main and minor characters like Mad Men or Breaking Bad would do. Then again, the show is true in spirit to how they off characters in the comics.

The only thing that bothers me is what was previously mentioned numerous times throughout episodes, stab the zombies and then loot. It seems comical how they keep placing themselves into traps.

I think that's a fine usage for a character death. We didn't "live" with Noah like Glen did. I think his reaction is important.

I also look at these deaths as fairly realistic. People don't die in real life at convenient times when their stories have wrapped up. Sometimes they win the lottery and get hit by a bus. Death is often random and meaningless. I don't know why the show is held to such a different standard.

As far as Noah knew, he was going to keep living so why not plan for the future?

I think i'm ok with that, as long as it does something meaningful for Glen. His reaction on the show was very well done, and I hope it plays out well the last 2 episodes opposed to just being ignored and moving on.

Now this REALLY sucks for black folks

Probably. Leaving their friends behind seems to be how they do things there. Gabe fits right in.

They even killed the black horse.

Noah's death was pretty gruesome. Getting eaten alive and then your face torn apart. Good Lord. Great job by Nicotero and his makeup people.

I get such a weird vibe with Rick and Jessie. They managed to turn Rick from a badass hero earlier this season to this creepy guy who has the hots for a married woman.

Rick has turned into Shane.

Because the show is not real life, nor a documentary of it. It's scripted fiction, in which characters and plot threads should have a purpose for existing (generally speaking anyway, unless you're doing some kind of experimental thing, but this is not that).

It doesn't matter though. At this point we all know what we're getting with this particular show.

I'm the kind of person who enjoys the hero of the story getting killed 1/2 way through. I'd rather it not be predictable, so I'm all for characters dying at random times.

For Noah and the other Alexandrian, their deaths appeared to be Romero/Savini inspired this week. Closeups with pig-guts kind of gore.

Whatever happens, I hope they pace things quickly with Alexandria. Are they going to tie it all up in the next two episodes?

It will go on longer than Woodbury .... much much longer.

MUCH.....MUCH.....MUCH longer.

Comic spoiler - only a spoiler in terms of giving you an idea of how long the Alexandria storyline lasts....

A lot will happen in that long, long time.

I noticed in the preview for the next episode, it quickly shows Daryl discovering a camp site. Is it safe to assume those are the "Wolves"?

It's a pretty safe assumption.

I hope the show doesn't overuse this setting like I feel like they did with Woodbury. That said, regarding the comic -

Comic guys, you're getting a little loose again. Things I've picked up reading here...


No way anyone who just watches the show would know that stuff and some of us prefer to remain unspoiled. So just a gentle reminder... if it hasn't happened on the show proper (trailers are not included), discuss it in spoiler tags or in the thread for wide-open discussion.

As a comic reader (though I'm an issue behind) I can say the name is not from the book. It's original to the show.

Those things could have been taken from the show. The second one was literally written on a wall in one scene. Someone writes the name of the group on a wall and you don't think people will connect the name to the letter written on their foreheads? They couldn't have made it more clear.

The first one makes no sense. The show looks like they are setting up to stay in one location. They are given jobs. Story lines are being setup. Seems like common sense this is be a location for awhile. No need to read the comic when it is so obvious to anyone watching the show, well obvious to me anyway. Besides you can't really tell how long they have been in that location in the comic. Was it weeks, months, or years. I don't know and I red the comic. You have no idea how much time passes between each comic.

I honestly don't think you have been paying attention to the show if you think those are spoilers.

Wolves is absolutely not a spoiler. It is from the show, not the comic.

Been playing catch up. I've enjoyed this part of the season quite a bit. It's a little slower, but I like the dynamic between Rick's hardened family and the pussies of Alexandria. How have they survived this long?

That aside, holy hell at the revolving door scene. That was brilliant. Poor Noah, we hardly knew ya. I think they could have played it out just a tad longer though to ratchet up the tension some more. It seemed to go too quick. Probably my favorite death of the series. Good stuff. However, if the Alexandria douche had the bullets and Glen had the gun, why not shove a bullet or two around the corner of the bottom of the door? That would be plenty for Glen to at least shoot out the glass.

Carol playing everyone is fucking great. Love it. Abraham going nuts on the zombie horde was great followed by taking charge. That's the Abraham we need to see more often.

Lastly, Father Gabriel...what a fucking dickhead. I mean, he's never been a part of Rick's family, and never made an attempt to fit in, but shit, how many times had they saved his life? Oh man, can't wait to see his comeuppance. Let Daryl take him on a run.