At this point in the season (Survivor included), everyone is usually complaining about how dumb the cast has played the game. Now we have someone that actually knows how to play the game perfectly and people are complaining.

Because we all want to put our own spin of personal ethics on it based on how we think we'd play the game if we're in the house.

But you've got a lot of people here who didn't see Dan play the first time around. They don't get he can't play that same way now. That's expected.

So he's got to play in a way that's actually opposite to his usual nature to keep people on their toes.

But no, he's evil. Yeesh!

I usually could care if the actual quality of the gameplay is good or bad I just want entertaining charecters who will make the live feeds and tv show worth watching. For the most part I think this season has been kind of a mixed bag. Boogie,Janelle,Shane,Jenn,Joe and Wil were outright waste of spaces and Frank being forced on us like Jessie 2.0 was annoying.

And personally I would rather the cast have entirely all new players since it takes a lot of the suspense out of the actual game since noobs vs vets the noobs will always be outmatched and a vet will always get to the end.

Yea, evicting them from the big brother house is totally soul raping...

I won't mention the winner since it hasn't aired on the west coast yet... but I'm going to spoil "America's Choice."

Jannelle...what a truly ugly person she is. She was right about Dan easily being the best player though. Unfortunately for him the season was made up of butt hurt babies. Reminds me of a certain other CBS reality show featuring a contestant named Hantz.

Oh, and thank the Lord now that this is over I never have to hear the phrase "Jenn City" again. But I guess I should at least give her credit for being the most complete waste of space to finish as high as fifth.

I really would have loved to see Dan and Danielle in the end. In that case, he would have won. He certainly played the best game. Somehow the jury house soured to him.

You could tell Danielle was still trying to sort things out at the end. I'm sure she's wondering if Dan really was going to take her, but he was.

Dan was robbed, but I think he just played too hard. I don't know what else he could have done, but Danielle losing the second to final round and him losing the final round were really their biggest mistakes.

I really feel terrible tonight. I can't recall feeling this bad from a Survivor jury or a BB jury result in some time.

Personally, I think Dani's miscalculation at the end was to drop for Dan in part 1 of the final HOH. It's one thing if Dan had beaten her, but if he was asking her to believe in him, she should have said, "then you show me that you have the same faith and drop for me." Dani had been very surprising in the comps and I'm not sure Dan had more determination at that point.

She needed to keep the power in her hands.

This was my first season watching the show, so I'm not an expert by any means and my opinion is not informed by what's happened in the past, but I have to say I was very happy with the outcome. Ian was my favorite player on the show, and Dan was vile regardless of any intentional editing that went on. Sometimes lying, cheating, and backstabbing does come back to bite you in the ass, even if it gets you ahead temporarily.

It was a very smart move by Ian to drop the tidbit about Dan giving him his grandfather's cross right at the end. For a minute I actually thought that even Danielle might be finally wising up, but her gullibility apparently knows no bounds. It's pretty amazing that after everything that happened, she ended up not only still supporting Dan, but actually being the only vote he received.

If Dan had won, this would also have been my last season watching. I'm sorry for others who are disappointed at the outcome, but I don't necessarily understand why. (I know the answer will be "Dan played the best game," but as far as I know there are no set rules that define the "best game" and turning everyone on the jury against you via treachery surely counts as not playing the best game, right? Or did I miss something?)

Funny, I haven't felt this good after one of these shows in years. I've been strongly rooting for Ian since at least midseason.

I've watched every season and I couldn't agree with you more.

Dan played an absolutely masterful game, granted, but vileness and treachery can be overdone (or overDanned) and it did him in. He said it was the only way he could win. So I guess there was actually no way he could win.

"Quack."

I'll preface this post with this statement. I don't dislike Ian. I think he's basically a good kid who got a big head as this season went on, but he's still basically a good kid.

I knew Dan could never beat Ian given the jury format so the outcome was never in doubt once Ian won the final HOH. Simply put, Dan needed the time to explain his moves not rush a practiced speech (he practiced late last night). In season 10, when he had plenty of people hating him, he was able to turn them logically in a legitimate Q&A period. Jenn voting for Ian tells you all you needed to know about tonight. That jury had crowned a winner before they even walked in the studio.

As for Ian's accomplishments...he won some competitions. That's pretty much all he did. He never ran his own HOHs; the nominees were either Britney's or Dan's not Ian's. He didn't create any alliance. Shane and Britney know he didn't create any alliance, but they were more than willing to go along with that deception (well...maybe Shane doesn't remember, but I know Britney does). Ian was exactly what Dan said he was. He's was the fifth member of a five person alliance led up to room in a dog suit and told he could join. Now, in the house they let him believe he formed the alliance to keep him in check, but he didn't form any alliance.

And there is NO WAY that whiny, entitled, epic douchebag Frank Eudy got the most votes in America's favorite houseguest. No way. I call shenanigans. Ali G loved him; that's how he won.

Janelle was the voice of the BB fan tonight. She knows the game; she loves the game. Ian winning was a travesty. As for Boogie's counterpoint in support of Ian, he's still butthurt over Dan evicting his Uncle Jerry (Frank). Of course he's going to be in support of Ian.

You didn't miss anything. This happens almost every season of Survivor or Big Brother. People forget that not being able to get people to vote for you means you did something wrong. It's easier to just be furious about bitter evicted houseguests instead of accepting the fact that jury management is an important part of the game.

The way the jury format is currently configured in Big Brother you can't really explain moves to the jury. The live Q&A is a tv gimmick with the questions pre-approved, and the winner already decided. There's no give and take for a better understanding. Should Dan have recognized this earlier...absolutely. He should have known there was no way he could beat Ian and might have been better if he had just rolled the dice and gone against Dani and Shane in final 3. Certainly, Dani had so much influence over Shane that she might have gotten him to dump some competitions.

Frank aside, I don't think most of the jurors were particularly bitter. They just liked Ian more or at the very least felt somewhat sorry for him and thought it was the better story. Joe and Jenn said afterwards that they didn't want to vote for a coach. There's nothing Dan could do about that.

I think it stems from people watching the show from the outside and thinking to themselves "There is no way I would be that big a douchebag if I was on the jury of a show like this, so why are they?"

And that's what made them the truly epic, game changing players that they were.

At Frank winning fan favorite I call shennanigans.

And most of the people they cast on this show are type A personalities who are more inclined to be pissed off on the jury so thats why if you do lie you need to do it judiciously.

Another thing to consider is that the jury does not see everything we see.

Take someone like, say, Ashley. All she knows is what she saw and heard while she was in the house, and what others on the jury told of their own experiences after they arrived at the jury house. We, the viewer, get, quite literally, a "big brother" view of the house through the feeds, Showtime, and the diary room confessions. We know almost everything that one behind everyone else's back, we know every single lie and alliance and backstab and deception. The people on the jury don't see a fraction of what we see.

Survivor is sort of the same way, with the exception that we the viewers only see after-the-fact edits done by the producers. There is no Survivor After Dark or live feed for us to see, and the Survivor episodes are pieced together when all outcomes are known; with BB, they have to do it on the fly and can't make a winner's edit.

Bingo. Dan played a game to survive, Ian played a game to win. One is always going to be respected more than the other.

I would say Survivor in a way we as the viewers maybe are like Ashley.

Based on what people said post show for example despite getting edits that made it look like Coach and Stephanie were masterminds who just screwed over too many jurors Sophie was in total control in Coach's season and Stephanie was basically Rafe's sidekick but the show is always revolved around the bigger charecters. It's the reason the default edit for most female winners is usually they just lucked into it or they benefited from a bitter jury cause alpha females are offputting to most people male and female and they tend not to do well but females who succeed usually do so in a way that doesn't make for good television.

Excellent points about Ian. For all the talk about how great Ian played. He would have been voted out on several separate occasions if he hadn't won all those HOH/Veto competitions. After Mike got booted out Ian won every single HOH he was eligible to play in, every one. Dan's brilliance was that he didnt need to win competitions to stay alive. Ian basically pulled a Janelle and dominated the competitions.

This final vote was a repeat of season 2 IMO. Best player lost due to butt hurt.

Ian played an awful strategic game probably one of the worst ever but because he is a great charecter and likeable guy people will try and spin it otherwise. Still though he absolutely owned Dan at FTC and did a better job at the game socially. The same way it was Boogies downfall to spend too much of his time hunkered down with Frank the same thing can be said for Dan who spent a lot of his efforts babysitting Danielle instead of trying to befriend people who would ultimately be deciding the winner.

Ian seems a bit off. I wonder what this will do to him. He seems like the type that will do something drastic.

Maybe Ian will use the money to open a theme park based around inorganic chemistry, Pokemon and hammock based rides.