Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
#176
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 5,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#178
DVD Talk Limited Edition
#179
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
So this might be the one instance where you are alone on a matter.
#180
DVD Talk Legend
#181
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
You said you were the only one that thought Arya is not a great character at this point, we agreed with that you are the only one, and now we are not allowing you to say anything negative?
#182
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
#183
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Muncie, IN [Member formerly known as abrg923]
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
I need to read faster. Still 1/3 of the way through A Game of Thrones. OH NO I MENTIONED A BOOK IN THIS THREAD, GODS STRIKE ME DOWN
#184
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.
So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
#185
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.
But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.
So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.
So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
Spoilerish, not a specific spoiler, just potential plot lines about who lives and dies
Spoiler:
I was like damn.
#186
Banned
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Won't discuss any further differences in events in the series that contradict later (unmentioned) events in the series even when trying to avoid spoilers. Will take those comments to the book/series thread (it's not purely a "book" thread since comparisons to the series are mentioned there).
However, one thing about the praised "Arya-Tywin stare-down" bothered me. Setting aside book differences, in the series Arya is trying to survive and has just managed to escape an excruciating, fearsome death at the hands of torturers. Is she really going to risk offending the head Lannister (who has just mentioned that he is only sparing the head of a retainer because the offending party is related to him)? And, re: the admiration for the way the writers had Tywin push the plate away after Arya's comment about "anyone can die", does anyone think that Tywin Lannister would for a second brook any threat, no matter how veiled it might be? Even just the series gives the impression that Tywin would pull a Bolton and flay the hide off anyone who dared to suggest any sort of threat against his person (or anyone in his family, for that matter...even the despised Tyrion). It plays well onscreen, but it's not true to the ruthless character of Tywin. And even impetuous Arya would not be so rash as to threaten him to his face. She's seen how little human life holds for these people.
And I just thought of how I expected the scenes with The Tickler to be portrayed. I would rather have seen a calmly menacing figure that recalled the Nazi played by Sir Laurence Olivier in Marathon Man (the scene that caused a drop in dental visits), right down to the repeated questions (substituting "Is there gold in the village" for "Is it safe"?). I also would have liked to have seen it played out more through the screams and sounds rather than the 'rat' scene. Hearing the agony but not knowing exactly what was being done to the victim would be enough to make the captives do what Hot Pie did when he realized how narrowly he escaped being chosen. And, to add to the horror, a shot of a child being led away to be 'interrogated' would have established the insane cruelty of the torturers. Just sayin'.
However, one thing about the praised "Arya-Tywin stare-down" bothered me. Setting aside book differences, in the series Arya is trying to survive and has just managed to escape an excruciating, fearsome death at the hands of torturers. Is she really going to risk offending the head Lannister (who has just mentioned that he is only sparing the head of a retainer because the offending party is related to him)? And, re: the admiration for the way the writers had Tywin push the plate away after Arya's comment about "anyone can die", does anyone think that Tywin Lannister would for a second brook any threat, no matter how veiled it might be? Even just the series gives the impression that Tywin would pull a Bolton and flay the hide off anyone who dared to suggest any sort of threat against his person (or anyone in his family, for that matter...even the despised Tyrion). It plays well onscreen, but it's not true to the ruthless character of Tywin. And even impetuous Arya would not be so rash as to threaten him to his face. She's seen how little human life holds for these people.
And I just thought of how I expected the scenes with The Tickler to be portrayed. I would rather have seen a calmly menacing figure that recalled the Nazi played by Sir Laurence Olivier in Marathon Man (the scene that caused a drop in dental visits), right down to the repeated questions (substituting "Is there gold in the village" for "Is it safe"?). I also would have liked to have seen it played out more through the screams and sounds rather than the 'rat' scene. Hearing the agony but not knowing exactly what was being done to the victim would be enough to make the captives do what Hot Pie did when he realized how narrowly he escaped being chosen. And, to add to the horror, a shot of a child being led away to be 'interrogated' would have established the insane cruelty of the torturers. Just sayin'.
#187
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
It's not the first criticism I've made of the show. Each time it's met with fan resistance. It's not unusual for this genre.
#188
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 5,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#189
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
it is not unusual for any genre
love the moniker (Kubrick reference) but not quite sure where you are going with this
#190
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
I can't tell what you're implying here. A Clash of Kings is the second book in the series in case you thought he was referencing the 3rd book. If you think having a lot of chapters in this series means you'll live to the next book, you should ask Ned Stark and his 15 chapters how that worked out.
#191
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Muncie, IN [Member formerly known as abrg923]
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.
But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.
So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.
So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
#192
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
And I just thought of how I expected the scenes with The Tickler to be portrayed. I would rather have seen a calmly menacing figure that recalled the Nazi played by Sir Laurence Olivier in Marathon Man (the scene that caused a drop in dental visits), right down to the repeated questions (substituting "Is there gold in the village" for "Is it safe"?). I also would have liked to have seen it played out more through the screams and sounds rather than the 'rat' scene. Hearing the agony but not knowing exactly what was being done to the victim would be enough to make the captives do what Hot Pie did when he realized how narrowly he escaped being chosen. And, to add to the horror, a shot of a child being led away to be 'interrogated' would have established the insane cruelty of the torturers. Just sayin'.
#193
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
We know who Arya is and what she's feeling, but Tywin doesn't. To him she's just a scared little girl who dressed like a boy to escape savagery in the wild. If Tywin felt even the slightest threat from her, there's no way he would tell her to go get his water. He would not keep her as his cup bearer. And he very likely, as you said, would flat out kill her. But instead, from his point of view what we have is a little girl who is on her own who is basically asked and innocently and immaturely responds, "Anyone can be killed." Even if it's the wrong response, he doesn't think it's a threat or one that diminishes his status. But he does gaze at her to see if those elements are there in her response.
That brings us to the length of the held eyes. In that situation, there are two schools of thought. You look someone in the eye as a sign of respect, or you look away from someone as a sign of deferent respect (similar to kneeling and looking down). I think if you're bringing water, you avert your eyes in deferent respect. But if you're being directly addressed, you may hold eyes. If you don't, you may get, "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" So I don't think Arya looking at him while being addressed and queried is inherently wrong. It's made more wrong only because we know more about her than Tywin does. Otherwise it's just a little helpless girl sitting there waiting for her next command.
Like many others, Arya and Tyrion are my favorite characters.
#194
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Another thing to remember is that females are worthless hostages. This world is very patriarchal, they value sons. If Tywin thought she was actually Arya Stark, or anyone of noble birth, holding her hostage to try to force Robb's hand would be pointless. Even Cat knows Robb would never even trade Jaime Lannister for "two girls", Robb's own sisters.
Arya may be held captive out of respect, but they may as well kill her or marry her off to some Lannister bannerman's son to further put the southron influence into the north.
Arya may be held captive out of respect, but they may as well kill her or marry her off to some Lannister bannerman's son to further put the southron influence into the north.
#196
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
I love how his lines obviously make him a foreigner, and a noble one possibly.
<hr>
Here's a thought, everyone discussing the fucking books:
Go to the Book Thread.
Have you never read the books, and wonder what will happen, or are unclear on something not yet explained in the TV show?
Go to the Book Thread.
Have a long, spoilery paragraph about how a character's death was different in the book blah blah blah
Go to the Book Thread. Go to the Book Thread. Go to the Book Thread!!!: http://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/600...materials.html
The discussion here is worthless otherwise.
#197
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Also, I think Tywin respects intelligence, with Arya obviously has. I think he asked her an honest question and expected an honest response. Juxtaposed with his frustration with his council.
#198
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Muncie, IN [Member formerly known as abrg923]
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
I'm not going to go to the book thread if I'm asking about the difference between something, considering the rest of the book would be spoiled in that thread. That's just stupid. I'll put my question out, and the person responding to it can answer in a spoiler tag. No harm, no foul.
The book threads are for people who have read all of the books. Sometimes we who haven't seek a little clarification on things that readers of the books can provide. It's ridiculous to expect us to go there for answers.
All of this is absolute 100% common sense and yet every single week people complain about it. It's beyond me.
The book threads are for people who have read all of the books. Sometimes we who haven't seek a little clarification on things that readers of the books can provide. It's ridiculous to expect us to go there for answers.
All of this is absolute 100% common sense and yet every single week people complain about it. It's beyond me.
#199
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Let me preface this by saying I understand this is the internet and moreso an internet forum, and opinions are not worth the data packets it costs to transmit them, but...
I typically steer pretty clear of these threads in general, especially since they are starting to approach "The Walking Dead" status. Not surprisingly it is a similar situation, with an avid fan base of the original material conversing with newcomers to the material through the popular show.
While I (never having picked up one of the books) would like to ask questions like "What the hell is a Harrenhal?" I don't. The material has great depth (one of the reasons I enjoy it) and because of that I don't know if my lack of knowledge is because I missed a seemingly throwaway line in an earlier episode or because it has intentionally been withheld to this point in the story due to some insane reveal coming next week. So I don't ask, thereby trying to prevent someone who has read the books from inadvertently (or not) spilling a little more than I would prefer.
So it would be nice if you have a question like "Does this guy/girl/dragon do something important?" please take those to the spoiler thread. You are literally asking for spoilers to be posted and there is a thread for that.
I love the series and would enjoy discussing it. But even an answer like "She barely appears in the third book" is a major spoiler for a series like this where no one is safe (again, another reason I enjoy it). So I tread pretty carefully in these episode threads and really appreciate those who use the spoilers to answer questions and especially with a non-spoilerized comment such as "Regarding Arya..." to help me decide whether to peek or not.
I typically steer pretty clear of these threads in general, especially since they are starting to approach "The Walking Dead" status. Not surprisingly it is a similar situation, with an avid fan base of the original material conversing with newcomers to the material through the popular show.
While I (never having picked up one of the books) would like to ask questions like "What the hell is a Harrenhal?" I don't. The material has great depth (one of the reasons I enjoy it) and because of that I don't know if my lack of knowledge is because I missed a seemingly throwaway line in an earlier episode or because it has intentionally been withheld to this point in the story due to some insane reveal coming next week. So I don't ask, thereby trying to prevent someone who has read the books from inadvertently (or not) spilling a little more than I would prefer.
So it would be nice if you have a question like "Does this guy/girl/dragon do something important?" please take those to the spoiler thread. You are literally asking for spoilers to be posted and there is a thread for that.
I love the series and would enjoy discussing it. But even an answer like "She barely appears in the third book" is a major spoiler for a series like this where no one is safe (again, another reason I enjoy it). So I tread pretty carefully in these episode threads and really appreciate those who use the spoilers to answer questions and especially with a non-spoilerized comment such as "Regarding Arya..." to help me decide whether to peek or not.
#200
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Muncie, IN [Member formerly known as abrg923]
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
But again, if I take that question to the spoiler thread, I'm going to see all kinds of things that maybe I don't want to know. Maybe we who ask those questions should state, as I have before, "Please put in spoiler tags". That might help.
To address your concern, I would say to ask, "If it hasn't been explained yet, please don't spoil it for me".
By the way, Harrenhal is the city where Arya and Tywin are currently at. Not a spoiler, since it's in the opening credits for the past two episodes.
To address your concern, I would say to ask, "If it hasn't been explained yet, please don't spoil it for me".
By the way, Harrenhal is the city where Arya and Tywin are currently at. Not a spoiler, since it's in the opening credits for the past two episodes.