Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
05-06-12, 11:40 AM
#476
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
I go back-and-forth on Will (the deserter). Yeah, he was scared shitless, but was he that out of it that he once he ran down to the Wall, he couldn't travel along it to reach Castle Black to warn everyone? But then again, he was probably that terrified that he wanted to place as much distance between himself and the North as possible.
05-06-12, 04:42 PM
#477
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
In Deserter's defense, it wasn't "because he saw a White Walker" like, "Hey, look at the little bunny." It's BECAUSE HE SAW A WHITE WALKER! Maybe I need to watch the scene again, but I remember a guy who was completely disoriented because he watched his friends savaged and barely escaped with his life. I didn't think it was so much a matter of him running off and not telling anyone as much as it was he didn't have a chance yet before he was found.
So let's put it out there and see if this makes sense. Correct me where I'm wrong... A small group of Night's Watch is out, they're savagely (and murderously) attacked by White Walkers, one guy is terrified but gets away. While roaming the countryside horseless he's spotted by Ned's people. He tells them he's seen a White Walker. They're like, "And Santa Claus too? Screw that, you're a deserter." So they bring him back to Ned and tell Ned what he said. So Ned's all, "Yeah, yeah... whatever... look, I don't have all day, just put your head on the block." ** CHOP ** What's for dinner?
In all seriousness, I get Ned being by the book, but when someone does something he isn't supposed to do, I'd like to know why. If he provides a stupid (or no) reason, sure, off with his head. But exactly what was the guy supposed to do? Again, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but my sense of the scene back when it happened was I didn't see much else the guy could have done after his comrades were killed and he lost his horse. He had to wander back to civilization solo.
The only thing I'm not sure of (or remembering) is if it was a sanctioned Night's Watch patrol. If all of them were in fact deserters and he had no legitimate reason to be out there in the first place, that would be different. But I don't remember that being the case. I certainly don't remember Ned asking. Before I'd assume someone is a deserter, I'd ask "What were you doing out there".
So let's put it out there and see if this makes sense. Correct me where I'm wrong... A small group of Night's Watch is out, they're savagely (and murderously) attacked by White Walkers, one guy is terrified but gets away. While roaming the countryside horseless he's spotted by Ned's people. He tells them he's seen a White Walker. They're like, "And Santa Claus too? Screw that, you're a deserter." So they bring him back to Ned and tell Ned what he said. So Ned's all, "Yeah, yeah... whatever... look, I don't have all day, just put your head on the block." ** CHOP ** What's for dinner?
In all seriousness, I get Ned being by the book, but when someone does something he isn't supposed to do, I'd like to know why. If he provides a stupid (or no) reason, sure, off with his head. But exactly what was the guy supposed to do? Again, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but my sense of the scene back when it happened was I didn't see much else the guy could have done after his comrades were killed and he lost his horse. He had to wander back to civilization solo.
The only thing I'm not sure of (or remembering) is if it was a sanctioned Night's Watch patrol. If all of them were in fact deserters and he had no legitimate reason to be out there in the first place, that would be different. But I don't remember that being the case. I certainly don't remember Ned asking. Before I'd assume someone is a deserter, I'd ask "What were you doing out there".
Going further along the "Stark Family Honor," topic... Sansa sucks. Sure she's a sympathetic figure now, but she has previously lied and been totally self-centered. Let's not forget she lied in front of everyone against her sister (her own flesh and blood) so as not to risk her spot as wife of the future King. She'd rather be wife of Mad King II than point out he's a butthole and lose her spot. Her list of transgressions is long and in no way do I consider her a person of honor. But then, as we've said, it's not all black and white. She has shown redeeming qualities.
Last edited by Ketamine; 05-06-12 at 07:29 PM.
05-06-12, 06:07 PM
#478
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
It honestly doesn't make any sense. Someone in the mental state he was in couldn't have climbed the wall... certainly not by himself and without ropes. He couldn't have gone through a deserted towers gate because then all the wildlings could get through the same spot as well. He couldn't have gone through castle black because they would've opened the gate for him and interrogated him. He couldn't have gone around because it would've taken forever. He'd have to somehow know a secret passage under the wall, but that seems unlikely too.
You can tell this really bugs me
You can tell this really bugs me
Spoiler:
05-06-12, 07:10 PM
#479
DVD Talk Special Edition
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Thanks for that. I was actually missing that since at the time that all happened, I didn't have a good sense of North of Wall, South of Wall, etc. All I was seeing was Ned killing this guy for deserting because he didn't believe his explanation, but his explanation was not just true but valid.
05-06-12, 07:27 PM
#480
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Thanks for that. I was actually missing that since at the time that all happened, I didn't have a good sense of North of Wall, South of Wall, etc. All I was seeing was Ned killing this guy for deserting because he didn't believe his explanation, but his explanation was not just true but valid.
I can see why it confusining where things happening since this was at the beginning of the 1st episode. Knowing what really going on though shows that Ned did right by the law and his beliefs.
05-15-20, 12:35 AM
#482
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
The interaction between Arya and Tywin is fantastic. Best departure from the books so far.
I had not noticed any of this either. That's really cool. Curious to see if those change to reflect the current story as well.
Been loving the animations of the locations and the sigils for the characters' houses though.
This is something that the show has gotten me thinking about. Criminals can go to the wall to escape a different type of punishment back home ... but what happens if they complete their training and say, nah, not actually all that interested in saying my vows, I'll be on my way.
Is the Watch hunting down criminals who have left before saying their vows and carrying out the original sentence? Or is that person just left to fear whichever lord sentenced them to begin with?
In case you haven't noticed it yet in the opening credit sequence: the engravings on the "rings" tell the story of the recent history of Westros:
1. The Dragon (Targaryan) arrives and conquors the kingdoms.
2. The Dragon subjegates the people.
3. The Stag (Baratheon), the Lion (Lannister) and the Wolf (Stark) form an alliance and attack the Dragon.
4. They are victorious.
5, The Wolf and the Lion bow to the Stag.
6. The logo for the show is then surrounded by the four sigils.
Sorry if you've already noticed this, but I pointed it out to my wife this week and she hadn't seen it previously.
1. The Dragon (Targaryan) arrives and conquors the kingdoms.
2. The Dragon subjegates the people.
3. The Stag (Baratheon), the Lion (Lannister) and the Wolf (Stark) form an alliance and attack the Dragon.
4. They are victorious.
5, The Wolf and the Lion bow to the Stag.
6. The logo for the show is then surrounded by the four sigils.
Sorry if you've already noticed this, but I pointed it out to my wife this week and she hadn't seen it previously.
Been loving the animations of the locations and the sigils for the characters' houses though.
The Night's Watch doesn't answer to Kings Landing either. It's older than the united Seven Kingdoms. It's entirely independent and will not get involved in any of the squabbles in the 7 Kingdoms. Also, not even the King's men can interfere in the Night's Watch's dealings. Yoren was perfectly in his legal rights to stand up to those soldiers a couple of episodes ago, they had no business hassling him about a recruit. In fact, the major houses (and the King) of Westros are traditionally supposed to help the Watch with whatever they may need.
Once a man joins the Night's Watch and gives The Oath, he's untouchable to any authority except the Lord Commander's. His history, family and former titles are entirely irrelevant on the Wall. This is a good thing if you're a criminal as all your former crimes are forgotten, in exchange you can never leave the Watch under penalty of death.
Once a man joins the Night's Watch and gives The Oath, he's untouchable to any authority except the Lord Commander's. His history, family and former titles are entirely irrelevant on the Wall. This is a good thing if you're a criminal as all your former crimes are forgotten, in exchange you can never leave the Watch under penalty of death.
Is the Watch hunting down criminals who have left before saying their vows and carrying out the original sentence? Or is that person just left to fear whichever lord sentenced them to begin with?
05-15-20, 09:54 AM
#483
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
Anyone who runs from the Night's Watch and violates his oath is executed by whoever catches him - that's why Ned Stark executes the deserter in S1Ep1
05-15-20, 09:16 PM
#484
Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12
But there seems to be a period between "joining" and saying the vows. Is there an oath to violate before you say the vows?
Jon and Sam and the rest are recruits for a while before saying their vows and becoming officially part of the Night's Watch.
I might be mixing up details from the book that aren't in the show, but I thought there was a point-of-no-return conversation somewhere.
Jon and Sam and the rest are recruits for a while before saying their vows and becoming officially part of the Night's Watch.
I might be mixing up details from the book that aren't in the show, but I thought there was a point-of-no-return conversation somewhere.
