Series 3 Tivo?

What can a Tivo do that my DTV DVR can't? I'm just curious, I don't know.

I had a series 2 Tivo awhile ago, but I can't think of anything it did that the DirecTV DVR cannot do. I can't imagine going back to cable.

Newer Tivo models can do things like stream Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc. I'm sure they have other features but I don't know what they might be.

Your subject line says DVR, not Tivo. Most people who have DVRs probably don't have Tivo, so if this is meant to be a Tivo-specific thread, that should be mentioned. But then again, if that's the case, then this has become more of a personal gripe thread about Tivo rather than a discussion about how networks should adjust in the age of DVRs.

This is all very true. I love the DTV DVR. It's so much better and less buggy than any of the DVRs I used with cable. I'll admit the VOD is more efficient with cable, but if you have the time to let something download, the DirecTV option isn't too bad.

People love to make the rain storm argument, but it's really not too accurate. I very rarely lose service, and when I do, it's only in the very roughest conditions. And even then, it's rarely for longer than a minute or so. I actually had far spottier coverage with cable, and when there are cable outages, they tend to be longer as well.

Regardless, I think there are other options out there aside from networks airing your favorite programs on a loop for your Tivo; you just don't seem to like what they are or want to keep specific things that you have now. Fair enough.

By the way, multi-quote is your friend.

Meh. Legitimate and illegitimate alternative sources of content have made it very easy to stay up to date with current shows. If the networks want the DVR viewers, they'll make it easy for us to get the content. Until they reach that realization the networks can show infomercials to grandma while I download the latest episode of Amazing Race that was delayed an hour.

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me. I'd like to get it from my cable feed but if they want to become irrelevant who am I to stop them?

First Congrats to the Amazing Race for another well deserved Emmy win (Top Chef was horrible last run). TAR consistently gets at least 1 million more viewers and a corresponding large bump in the demos whenever it follows football. I am GLAD that it gets the football lead out after 60 minutes otherwise the ratings would suffer and it could potentially get cancelled. I am willing to record whatever they have after especially since it is the Good Wife (which is on demand for me) this fall.

A Tivo is a DVR.

Let HBO, AMC, FX and all the other channels re-airing their very expensive shows multiple times that the broadcast network's model is better. Yes, airing a show once and then putting in On Demand on proprietary cable boxes is the ideal solution.

The broadcast model is far different than cable because broadcast nets and affiliates have only 1 revenue stream - selling ad time. They make their money based on how many eyeballs are on a show - live. They have no reason to cater to DVR users since DVR users are far more likely to FF through commercials.

This is also why you see such huge deals by networks for sports programming now: sports are more DVR-proof (people want to watch them live) than other programming.

Sure it does. Directv does anyway and with the "normal" channel package. I'm not sure what market you are in, but in the Northern VA area Directv has CSN, MASN, and Versus all rotating around channels 640-644 or so. CSN usually simulcasts the redskins games, UVA games, and Virginia Tech games in HD while the local UPN channel has them in regular def (preseason I mean, I don't think a skins or tech game has been blacked out in 20 years).

DTV (nor DISH) doesn't have CSN-Philly, Jeeden, because Comcast is protected by a loophole (based on how CSN-Philly is transmitted) where they don't have to provide it to satellite providers. That's a big bone of contention.

It'd be better to have more people watch a show and possibly FF than just give up on those users. And AFAIK, DVR recordings are counted in the ratings.

I understand the local affiliates deal and why it doesn't happen. I suppose my only hope is they put some of their shows on their cable properties.

Yes, a Tivo is a DVR, one that obviously has some limitations as far as on demand content goes, according to what you have indicated. If we are talking in general DVR terms, the on demand content through cable and satellite should be taken into account. Apologies if that means you aren't able to access that content because you don't want to "punish yourself" by getting a box from a major cable or satellite company, but regardless of what you have chosen to equip your home theater with, on demand content is a viable - and growing - option for many of us.

It's not a limitation of Tivo but of lame cable companies.

RCN has a Tivo Premiere which offers all of their video on demand content.
http://www.tivo.com/products/source/...rcn/index.html

It's just a matter of embracing a superior and proven UI.

I never thought it was a technological limitation for Tivo, but it is still a limitation for most users, regardless of the reasons behind it.

Also unlike HBO, they don't have multi-coast feed. So channels like FX, TNT and USA reshow their prime time programming AGAIN the same night at 11pm EST so that the west coast can watch it at 8pm PST.

They get bigger advertising $$$ if they "threaten" the viewer and coerce them into watching that single airing. Spread it out and the advertisers will not be willing to pay as much to split the viewership.

(Small side not there: DVR "on demand" content on satellite isn't exactkly "no demand" IMHO since you have to "order" the program then wait until it downloads through your highspeed internet connection to your DVR. With DTV for me, that seems less than what I'd call "on demand" compared to other DVRs where you point, select and watch the second you hit play.)

To me, DTV "on demand" is "viable" only as a last resort.

Yep.

I thought it was a limitation of CableCard. It's too bad that people ignored CableCard and allowed the cable companies to monopolize the set top box.

In one of my earlier posts, I did mention the DirecTV download thing. I know most people are pretty rough on DTV's service, and while I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the things that are said, I'm all right with it. OnDemand content did not look very good when I used it with Time Warner Cable, though admittedly it probably looks much better now. Anyhow, with SD content, I usually don't even have to wait before being able to watch it. With HD content, I do have a wait on my hands before watching it, but I don't mind considering the quality is good once it downloads. In my opinion, it looks better than if I were to stream it or find it by other means, which would require me to wait as well. For me, that's a fair trade for the wait, but more important for this conversation is the fact that there are major network shows available to watch on there.

DVR viewings are counted in some of the ratings. Those viewers aren't as appealing as live viewers though. If they ran a second airing, they'd be further diluting the advertising dollars.

Talking about ratings reminded me of this video I came across recently:

http://w.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqKLSNmvEU

This has happened in the past. I recall FX ran same-week reruns of the first season of 24, and the same with Arrested Development. In fact, I caught up with the first season of AD midway through the season via an FX marathon. New episodes of House re-air on USA about 2 weeks after their premiere on FOX.

However, the fact that these re-airings aren't more common suggests that, for the most part, they don't work.

The real solution, instead of hoping networks change their habits, is to get a DVR with 3 or more tuners, like the Moxi;
http://www.moxi.com/us/

I'm waiting on the 4-tuner Tivo just announced.

A tuner still doesn't help shows preempted by football, basketball, and golf.

I wouldn't blame the consumer too much. It's not like cable companies went out of their way to promote CableCard, so I imagine the vast majority of the population doesn't even realize that it exists.

There was a successor to CableCard developed called Tru2Way, which allows for the 2-way communications needed for VOD services. However, it's basically dying on the vine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way

There you go.

If it's pre-empted and doesn't air that week, then it doesn't air. If the show's delayed, then real-time updating of DVR schedules would allow for the DVR to adjust the recording times. I think DVR tech will progress where this becomes an available feature. For now, there's remote scheduling for changing your DVR record settings even when away from home, or setting episodes likely to be delayed with an extended end time and/or recording the show slot(s) after it.

My Sony Grand Wega from 10 years ago had a cable card slot. It seemed half the TVs had them for a time. I had a cable card in that TV and it was beautiful not having the clunky slow cable box.

All Tivos operate with cable cards now. The idea was for 3rd parties to make cable boxes so that cable cos wouldn't have a stranglehold. I suppose cable customers are used to having shitty boxes given to them.

I would assume the RCN Tivos use these cards since they offer VOD.

A 4-Tuner TiVo? That's pretty sweet. Not enough to get me to go back to Comcrap though. What would be great is a 4-Tuner DVR with 4 outputs for a multi-TV setup. DISH had a DVR (I assume they still do) that allows for multiple outputs. I wish DTV had that. I could then dump my HD receiver (that I only use for the 2nd TV/sports).

I think most customers probably prefer to have a box given to them by the cable company rather than go out and shop for a third-party box. That's also an extra expense that many of them probably don't want. That's why I never went for a Tivo. I used it a few different friends' homes and decided that I didn't think it was worth the extra expense.