Red Dog

I enjoyed this season more than most of you and really enjoyed the finale.

Jimmy James

Just to set the record straight:

The gun charges relate back to the setting up of the club by Zobelle when they stormed some sort of Church revival that was being taped. At that moment, Chibs had just been blown up and was in the hospital. Opie was behind the others for a reason I forget and wasn't there. Piney doesn't go out on that shit any more. Kozik ("Lem") was still up in Portland. They're the nucleus of the caretaker charter that will exit while the others are in custody.

Unser left his badge and gun because it was the end of his department. It was the last day. It also made for good symbolism because it showed him leaving law enforcement both literally and figuratively. His cover story is that he heard that intel over the radio and hopped in the car to warn them but apparently the Irish slipped past the other feds. It holds up at least as well as Stahl's story.

The biggest issue with everything is that Jax's self doubt at the end of the Irish story seriously undermines just about everything else that happened.

I'm interested to read what Sutter has to say about the Ireland story, but I may save that for another day.

I think the Hale tape is a lot like another key plot point in The Shield that got teased as a key to things again and again but never was the answer to anything. I imagine it will be used a lot as something that could undermine Hale, but it in the end will just be a red herring.

Shamus McAnally

I don't put too much forethought into deciphering/predicting episodes and, admittedly, probably don't have the acumen to do so either.

That said, while I didn't enjoy this season as much as 1 & 2, I don't know that I had the hatred for it others felt. I certainly would have never intended to abandon it, regardless of how this season wrapped up.

But this last episode was pretty incredible, I thought. I didn't see the end coming. (I, too, thought Unser had taken it upon himself to save the club/end Stahl's reign of terror.) I thought it set up season 4 to have the possibility to have some pretty good story lines.

Having some faith that Sutter will get Season 4 on the right track early.

idvd420

Thought this was funny, from Kurt Sutter's twitter:


# S4 teaser. jax gets out of jail, realizes the russians took his wallet, we go to moscow for 7 eps to find it, he falls in love with borscht.

Derrich

I didn't like it and i dont think I'm coming back for next season. I didn't like the 'abracadabra' bs ending. You're telling me the club orchestrated that elaborate setup where every thing had to happen perfectly for it to succeed? What if Stahl had pulled over at a populated gas station instead of a nice deserted stretch of highway? What if she had decided to send one guy to check instead of 4? Etc etc. And, I know Stahl killed her girlfriend, but I dont feel great about seeing cop killers laugh about their 'victory'. She was like the female Vic Mackey who broke every rule but in the end, she got a terrorist, a ton of guns, and a club of murderers off the street. But we're supposed to cheer when she gets her head blown off in her car?

The beginning was goofy, too. Happy music showcasing these great relationships, even though most of the guys just finished cheating on their girlfriends/wives. Something about this episode cemented the fact that the Sons are a really bad group of people and I wouldn't mind having them rot in jail for 20-life.

D

Gunde

Yeah the music montages on this show really sucks. They are just cheesy as hell. The one last week might have been the worst in TV history.

BTW I'm proud that I finally predicted something before it happened
I'm usually the last person to see a 'twist' coming, but I totally knew that the SONS had played everybody before the reveal.

Navinabob

I didn't like the clean ending at first because of all the tiny bits that had to fit together, but the more I thought about it the fewer key details had to come true. Most of the events could have worked either way (her turning on Jax or not at the end gets the same play either way). Even the highway detail works fine because Unser got to pick the pull over point and if she only sent one guy ahead the bus ploy could still work out because they could have still gotten the drop on them.

But I came in liking this season well enough (not as good as the first two, but still way better then most shows).

My only gripe was the music.

kstublen

Don't forget that she set up Opie as a rat, which led to Donna being killed. And she framed Gemma for murder.

dino88

And caused Half-Sack's death and Abel's kidnapping.

If we got a prequel, I wouldn't be surprised to learn she was responsible for 9/11.

Jimmy James

Vic Mackey was also a bad person with a bad group of friends, and they also all deserved to rot for 20-life. I like shows about bad people, and I agree that describes the Sons. It's a show about an outlaw MC. I think the overly cheery montage only worked if it was seen as very much tongue in cheek, which is how I took it. Yeah, life is grand. Right.

Stahl decided to live in the gutter. She got the end that awaits people who make that choice. Other gutter trash killed her. Big whoop.

FantasticVSDoom

Yeah I agree with this... Definetly looking forward to next season and seeing where they go with it.

Charlie Goose

True, just like Tony Soprano, Chris Moltisanti, Paulie Gualtieri and the rest of that crew. These guys are criminals and murderers. They're portrayed as more heroic than the Sopranos, but they definitely belong in prison. Tig especially, isn't he borderline psycho?

kstublen

I can't believe I left those out.

superfro

With a bestiality charge if I remember correctly.

majorjoe23

I had completely forgotten what had set that in motion. For some reason I had blanked Stahl's involvement with season one out of my mind.

I remember there being talk about Ally Walker's marriage to the FX president keeping her safe on this show. Glad that wasn't true.

wmansir

I don't think it was meant to be tongue in cheek. The show has really cut back on painting these guys as anti-social criminals and played up the Robin Hood type outlaw angle with them fighting nazis and corrupt cops, giving the health clinic blackmarket drugs on credit, etc.

superfro

I guess I thought that situation was the only choice they had at the time?

wmansir

He could have only given him the amount of drugs they could pay for. Instead he's told them to take it all. It's not the most noble thing, but then helping out health clinics is far from the norm in the illegal drug trade. I can see why they did it to tie Tara into the club's illegal activities, but the way it played out made the club look like good guys instead of bad guys.

Navinabob

The club operates in Charming because they paint themselves out to be the "real protectors" so it makes sense to try and rehad their failing image that has been causing them troubles.

Derrich

i dont think anyone in Charming see's the Sons as protectors anymore. They've been the cause of more problems that the solution. Its not as if the only choice is SAMCRO or some other evil drug dealing gang. It's more than possible for a town to exist without any MC running things.

Setting up Opie as a rat falls under fairplay. The fact that his friends would kill his wife is more a testament to his choice of friends than Stahl's fault. And Halfsack getting killed and Abel's kidnapping was a weird chain of events that no one could've guessed. So Stahl gets a pass on that too.

Not only was Stahl the most interesting character on the show, she was one of the few people who actually did some good for Charming. (admittedly through a some f-ed up actions).

Plus, I think she should've gone out shooting.

D

TGM

no, it was better her going out as a whining sniveling bitch... and the fact that Opie was able to do it that way was good justice.

It was a leap that everything turned out like that, tho, 4 guys going off, just leaving Stahl and Jimmy there... and oh, it's not going to be at all fishy that Jimmy gets carved up like a Thanksgiving Turkey, Stahl gets her head blown off with an Uzi and Unser gets a... shiner?

wmansir

@Derrich

You don't think Stahl murdering her lover/partner was a bit over the top? I think that pushed the character from tough bitch antagonist to clinched psychopath villain.

superfro

Especially paired with her appearance in the opening music montage of reaching over in her empty bed and then smiling.

kstublen

First, Clay and Tig did not mean to kill Donna. They were, however, trying to kill Opie. I think there's a difference, albeit a small one.

Second, setting up Opie as a rat doesn't really seem fair to me. You try and get him to snitch on his friends and he refuses. So what do you do? You put money in his bank account, relocate his family, and do everything in your power to make him seem like a rat, knowing exactly what criminals and gangs do to snitches. She knew the possible consequences of her actions and yet she still did it. Because she couldn't get someone to cooperate with her, she willingly put them and their family in harm's way. Sure, what Clay and Tig did in going through with the hit wasn't okay, but Stahl is just at fault for setting that chain of events in motion.

So basically, if you can't foresee the consequences of your immoral actions then you get a pass for everything that happens afterward? I'm not sure I'm okay with that. If Stahl hadn't killed the Irish kid (who, don't forget, was running away and not actively shooting at her) and then pinned it on Gemma, Half-Sack wouldn't be dead and Abel never would've been kidnapped. Sure, she didn't know that the Irish kid's dad would lose it and kidnap Abel and kill someone in the process, but it's still her fault for not playing by the rules.

Not to mention she held Bobby in jail for weeks after the case was dropped. Granted, the Sons intimidated the witness to get the charges dropped, but her keeping him locked up was still wrong.

My point is, she wasn't a good person and did a lot of wrong. Sure, she was trying to catch criminals and stop the bad guys, but in the process she became a bad guy herself. She was going to frame Salazar for the murder of her partner too, until Jax killed him. He wasn't a good guy and had killed Lumpy and the Grimm Bastards guy, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be charged with the murder of a federal agent. And that's completely ignoring the fact that there was some personal motivation in her killing her partner. There was an element of personal animosity and self-preservation going on there. I mean, she was setting her up to take the fall for the murder of the Irish kid with Gemma's false statement and as her partner slowly realized something was going on with Stahl that wasn't by the books, she took her out. Even if you don't care that she caused the deaths of Donna and Half-Sack and the kidnapping of Abel, you have to recognize she crossed a line when she tried to pin a murder on her lover/partner and then killed her lover/partner to not only cover her own tracks, but also to end what had become a useless relationship for her.

We expect our law enforcement officers and agents to uphold the law and not subvert it. Hale was a good example of an officer working within the law to bring down criminals; Unser is a good example of a completely corrupt officer; and Stahl was a good example of using bad means to accomplish good ends.

wirefan

So are we supposed to think that Jax let the club in on the "deal" with the Feds from the start? Or did he clue them in some time along the way (when he realized it might backfire). If it wasn't from the beginning it would seem like the club would have some real hard feelings about him making that type of decision on his own.

I'm just glad the season is over and things are somewhat returned more or less back to the pre season 2 finale state minus Stahl (though sadly missing both Hale and Half-sack) The way the season went I would have been happy if Jax woke up after a long dream or if they had found a time machine and used it to prevent the Irish from kidnapping Abel.

I hope next season gets back to more of the interactions within the MC, between charters and between other MC's... the one thing I really remember and that rang true from this season was the scene with the Mayans turning over the Calavera (?) member to SAMCRO and the Grimm Reapers - the show seems at it's best in these types of scenes and dealing with local bad guys and local police. I also hope killing Stahl is not Opie's final closure on Donna's killing - I can't see how he could give either Tig or Clay a pass even knowing they were setup.