Luds

How is Leno a bad guy in this? Other than making personal attacks at Letterman that is?

He accepted being pushed over for Conan, stayed loyal to NBC (for whatever reason), got another show, and now is asked to take the Tonight show back since Conan wasn't winning the rating wars. How the hell is this his fault?

You can blame NBC for being stupid, and blame the audience for not watching Conan, but blaming Leno is beyond stupid.

RoyalTea

if you don't think the Bugatti Veyron mouse was funny, I don't know what to say ...

Luds

No I just thought it was just bad taste, to go on and waste this much money. He could have done something much smarter, like sign up NBC to some Charity segment making jokes and donating his money or whatever.

pinata242

His intent isn't to make NBC look clean in any way, shape, or form. As noble as donating NBC's money to charity would be, that still makes them look good on paper. He has plenty of his own (used to be NBC's) money to do that personally and can raise funds for Stillerstrong.org on his program.

I love the Scorched Earth policy he's enacted. It's like a real life Brewster's Millions.

RichC2

Leno is being singled out as the bad guy because of NBC bending over backwards to accomodate him when he should just say "no" and walk away with his head held high. NBC didn't ask Leno to take over the Tonight Show because of bad ratings.

Jay got canceled at 10pm and they opt'd to keep him around by adding his show to the prestigious 11:30 slot which Conan worked his ass off to earn. This then pushed the Tonight Show into tomorrow (12:05) which Conan wasn't willing to stand for (it would hurt his program and Fallon's program, this is all assuming nobody watches Carson ), afterall, why should Conan and Fallon be punished for Leno's failings?

So yes, you can look at it as Leno being the bad guy, Conan being whiny and NBC being incompetent, or any mix there of.

chuckd21

I'm not saying it's rational. I'm simply stating why I find one funny and not the other. I agree that too many people are taking things way too far with their hatred of Leno, but that's just the nature of the internet. Dave's being pretty damn tame, compared to how hardcore Conan supporters are reacting.

Deftones

Do you honestly think they spent $1.5 million for that bit? If you believe that, I can see why Leno is popular. They rented the Bugatti from a luxury car dealer for probably $10k and then paid about $50k for the rights to the song.

RoyalTea

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Maybe not a "bad guy," but anybody that can't call him a total liar who is completely full of shit is being disingenuous.

nightwing82

History should tell you that since Letterman failed to automatically receive the Tonight Show, having the time slot and program post-The Tonight Show does not guarantee you the hosting gig on the Tonight Show eventually (Jimmy Fallon has most likely definitely taken note of this now). Conan should work his ass off, on his own show, to make it successful. And, he did that (on Late Night). He didn't do that on his version of the Tonight Show, which seemed (to me) just a weird watered down version of Late Night with him puppet dancing and bringing back Andy Richter who was not missed.

Fist of Doom

And Dave hasn't made jokes for years about people's personal lives? Bill Clinton, Mark Sanford, Tiger Woods, Sarah Palin's daughter, just to name a few among a multitude. That's standard stuff in late night. There's no reason Letterman should be off-limits.

Nefarious

I don't have a problem with Leno taking shots at Dave, NBC, or even Conan if he wants to. His bits just aren't good and lack any real ingenuity.

I've always been more of a Dave guy and some of his pieces on this have been hilarious and others are lame.

Kimmel's show where he did "Jay" was pretty funny. His follow-up bits, outside of the 10 @ 10, have been pretty lame.

Conan has, hands down in my opinion, been the most creative and humorous of everyone. The craigslist stuff, the classic moments, car, music, etc. have all been great.

Fist of Doom

^I agree with all of that.

Luds

That's a way to see it. Again from this NBC is in the wrong, Leno isn't imo, he simply wants to keep working, and clearly if it was up to him, he would have never moved aside from it. I certainly don't blame the guy.

Same can be said about Letterman's "I'm not mad at NBC, I'm not mad at Jay" interview on Carson. Liar Liar.

So are people just mad at Leno because he didn't leave and go somewhere else to start another show? Maybe he's just a loyal guy.

Mad Dawg

Jeff Zucker? Is that you?

Doc Moonlight

For all the talk of "The Tonight Show" name, I can't recall it being used when Carson was host. When Carson was host, people would say "Did you see Carson (or "Johnny" or "Johnny Carson") last night?" I can recall it being referred to as "The Tonight Show" before and after Carson, but never during his reign.

Nefarious

Leno is far from faultless in this whole mess. He is not solely at fault but he certainly shares a good chunk of the blame. There have numerous timelines, articles, and videos shared through this thread and the previous one which make it "beyond stupid" for anyone to think he is faultless.

Tracer Bullet

Luds

Not faultless, he did want the show back and could have moved aside, but from reading all the posts in here it's like he's the devil in person.
NBC is clearly to blame here. Taking Leno off while he was still ratings king and signed Conan was the wrong move, or not letting Conan have a longer run to get better ratings. Perhaps also for putting *another* tonight show at 10 for Leno as well. None of this is Leno's fault

shaun3000

Carson, Letterman, Leno, Conan, Ferguson, etc. I don't know anyone who refers to the shows by their proper names.

neale

I agree but this is never going to happen. Leno's return will be closely watched by people and I'm sure NBC will stack the deck by filling the audience with ringers. Wouldn't surprise me if they supplemented whatever amount of cheering and laughter that's present with pre-recorded sfx so the show comes across better on tv.

resinrats

Unless I missed something, wasn't last night (or the night before) the first time Jay has attacked Dave. Seems Dave has been at it a week or so. Of course they have been personal unless 'Big Jaw' is a professional term.

Also, has it ever been said that Jay was the one to suggest moving Conan? It seems he is just going with what NBC suggests.

Could he have quit? Yes, but as we have seen in the past, he also cares about his crew (brought them over to his new show & paid them during the strikes) so maybe a reason he is staying is loyalty to the people that have supported him for years.

Match

Looking at the list of sketches he did on the Late Night show, why didn't he bring most of the popular ones on the Tonight Show?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Brien_sketches

I agree too.

Luds

There's just a HUGE bias against Leno in this whole affair, it's ridiculous.

shaun3000

It's official:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34970662...sion?gt1=43001

Conan gets $33 million, the staff $12 million. Conan will pay the staff in addition to their severance. He is released from his contract on September 1. No mention of intelectual property. Leno returns March 1.

RoyalTea

The last two transitions in the Tonight Show have been ugly. In both transitions, there was one constant.

Coincidence?