Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
#426
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Broadcaster Stephen Fry last night hit out at the "infantilism" of British TV and said that heavily promoted shows like Doctor Who, while being good programmes, were the equivalent of chicken nuggets.
He also spoke of the "absurdity" of some compliance rules, and said "fear" is everywhere in the television industry in this country.
Fry, who hosts QI, said that the programmes were "like a chicken nugget. Every now and again we all like it … But if you are an adult you want something surprising, savoury, sharp, unusual, cosmopolitan, alien, challenging, complex, ambiguous, possibly even slightly disturbing and wrong.
"You want to try those things, because that's what being adult means."
Fry was delivering the Bafta Annual Television Lecture in central London.
During a question and answer session after his speech, Fry told the audience: "If I wanted to be angry … I would say infantilism's the problem.
"The number of times I turn on the television and I think 'Gosh, children's television's gone on, that's a really good art documentary … Oh my God, it's nine o'clock in the evening. This is for grown-ups?' It's just shocking.
"The only drama the BBC will boast about are Merlin and Doctor Who, which are fine, but they're children's programmes. They're not for adults.
"And they're very good children's programmes, don't get me wrong, they're wonderfully written … but they are not for adults.
Fry said he was not arguing that all television should be pompous, academic or intellectual.
"But they ought to surprise and to astonish and to make us feel perhaps the possibility there is a world outside that we know nothing of to provoke us, to provoke in the best sense of the word, sometimes in the worst sense," he said.
"To surprise us, to outrage us."
Fry also highlighted what he felt was a lack of confidence among producers, although said the BBC would point to shows such as Gavin and Stacey and Little Britain.
He said: "These are very successful. But they are also unbelievably Balkanised.
"They are set into a particular demographic. This is what I mean by television not being the nation's fireplace. ..
"It's just all parcelled and I don't know that there's a solution to it."
Fry said that compliance issues and boxes that had to be ticked were what "everyone knows the public don't want".
He also said that the Sachsgate scandal involving Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand helped fuel a sense of "fear".
He mentioned a friend who was involved in making an episode of spy drama Spooks who was told a character had to wear a seatbelt in their car while saving London in the plot.
He also said it was mentioned the actor should pull over while talking on the phone, despite someone having been shot in an earlier scene.
Fry later said: "The temptation to scream 'F*** off' so loudly... there is no possible excuse, defence or claim that you can make that justifies such absurdity.
He also spoke of the "absurdity" of some compliance rules, and said "fear" is everywhere in the television industry in this country.
Fry, who hosts QI, said that the programmes were "like a chicken nugget. Every now and again we all like it … But if you are an adult you want something surprising, savoury, sharp, unusual, cosmopolitan, alien, challenging, complex, ambiguous, possibly even slightly disturbing and wrong.
"You want to try those things, because that's what being adult means."
Fry was delivering the Bafta Annual Television Lecture in central London.
During a question and answer session after his speech, Fry told the audience: "If I wanted to be angry … I would say infantilism's the problem.
"The number of times I turn on the television and I think 'Gosh, children's television's gone on, that's a really good art documentary … Oh my God, it's nine o'clock in the evening. This is for grown-ups?' It's just shocking.
"The only drama the BBC will boast about are Merlin and Doctor Who, which are fine, but they're children's programmes. They're not for adults.
"And they're very good children's programmes, don't get me wrong, they're wonderfully written … but they are not for adults.
Fry said he was not arguing that all television should be pompous, academic or intellectual.
"But they ought to surprise and to astonish and to make us feel perhaps the possibility there is a world outside that we know nothing of to provoke us, to provoke in the best sense of the word, sometimes in the worst sense," he said.
"To surprise us, to outrage us."
Fry also highlighted what he felt was a lack of confidence among producers, although said the BBC would point to shows such as Gavin and Stacey and Little Britain.
He said: "These are very successful. But they are also unbelievably Balkanised.
"They are set into a particular demographic. This is what I mean by television not being the nation's fireplace. ..
"It's just all parcelled and I don't know that there's a solution to it."
Fry said that compliance issues and boxes that had to be ticked were what "everyone knows the public don't want".
He also said that the Sachsgate scandal involving Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand helped fuel a sense of "fear".
He mentioned a friend who was involved in making an episode of spy drama Spooks who was told a character had to wear a seatbelt in their car while saving London in the plot.
He also said it was mentioned the actor should pull over while talking on the phone, despite someone having been shot in an earlier scene.
Fry later said: "The temptation to scream 'F*** off' so loudly... there is no possible excuse, defence or claim that you can make that justifies such absurdity.
The examples of BBC safety policies for Spooks remind me of an episode of QI where Fry wanted to have the panelists inhale helium to demonstrate the effects but he said they were prevented from doing so by BBC's "health and f***ing Safety."
#427
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
The build up to this first part of the finale was intense. Let's see if they can wrap it up satisfactorily. Nice little nod to Captain Jack early on...
#428
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Interestingly, Fry wrote an episode for Who a few years ago, but wasn't available to do re-writes and it was scrapped. But I don't look at his comments as a condemnation of the show in any way. I think he's spot on, and American broadcast television is just as bad, if not worse.
#430
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Hmm, an interesting episode. I'm curious as to how they will wrap it up. Is this going to get resolved in a Christmas special or is there one more episode after this?
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#433
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Pretty obvious who was going to be in/put in the Pandorica. I really liked the call-backs to previous episodes this series and the idea of the alliance to take care of the Doctor once and for all.
Still no Zygons, dammit!
Still no Zygons, dammit!
#434
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#435
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
I thought this was one of the best of the year. I certainly didn't get the big reveal until it happened. I kept thinking about that head that burst through at the end of the Series 5 promo. I'm not familiar with old Who, but based on people referencing a name I figured 1 + Pandorica = 2.
I also really liked the opening sequence reflecting back on a lot of the people and Amy have encountered throughout the series.
I am confused about
I liked the Losteque music use with a twist. Excited to see how it all wraps up!
I also really liked the opening sequence reflecting back on a lot of the people and Amy have encountered throughout the series.
I am confused about
Spoiler:
I liked the Losteque music use with a twist. Excited to see how it all wraps up!
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#437
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Loved the ending and definitely noticed the Lost-esque music as well. I'm really hoping next week's episode is a great one.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
I liked it. I actually felt like the Doctor's turn at the end was a little abrupt. It seems like that is something they could have been working towards a bit more clearly for the last season or two. I mean, there are hints of it there, but with Tennant only having one more episode, I feel like we should have been conscious of a building towards this. Hell, even just build to it over the specials. I did like it though.
It does feel like this show has a very specific "space station" storyline. All of the episodes that have occurred on them in this series feel very similar to me. The look of the water people was freaky. It would have been nice if they explained a bit more clearly why this water could cut through steel, but whatever. I can let that go.
It does feel like this show has a very specific "space station" storyline. All of the episodes that have occurred on them in this series feel very similar to me. The look of the water people was freaky. It would have been nice if they explained a bit more clearly why this water could cut through steel, but whatever. I can let that go.
#439
Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Well, I kinda' figured the ending to part one early in the episode. Just guessed
and once all the baddies showed up, it made sense.
Regards to Superman07's spoiler question.
I didn't like the grandstand moment. I generally hate NuWho making the Doc such a big, mythic figure. Far preferred him being a space tramp that just happened to be involved in all this big mess. NuWho making him always call out and mock his nemesis is getting really tired.
As for Stephen Fry's comments, he was just using Who as a referance point, not saying Who should be for adults, that generally BBC primetime was aimed at a less sophisticated audience which includes broad appeal oriented Who... Oh, and Fry was actually one of my dream choices for a new Doctor (the others being, in order of preference, Robert Carlyle, Rhys Ifans, or in a never happen, snowballs chance in Wacky Weirdsville Hell, Dylan Moran).
Spoiler:
Regards to Superman07's spoiler question.
Spoiler:
I didn't like the grandstand moment. I generally hate NuWho making the Doc such a big, mythic figure. Far preferred him being a space tramp that just happened to be involved in all this big mess. NuWho making him always call out and mock his nemesis is getting really tired.
As for Stephen Fry's comments, he was just using Who as a referance point, not saying Who should be for adults, that generally BBC primetime was aimed at a less sophisticated audience which includes broad appeal oriented Who... Oh, and Fry was actually one of my dream choices for a new Doctor (the others being, in order of preference, Robert Carlyle, Rhys Ifans, or in a never happen, snowballs chance in Wacky Weirdsville Hell, Dylan Moran).
#442
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#444
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#445
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Just finished The Big Bang, and without spoiling, I have to say it was the craziest, convoluted, brilliant resolution to last week's cliffhanger. I loved it, it was funny, sad, touching, and gave me the biggest grin at the end of the show. Well done, great season. Ready for the Christmas Special already!
#446
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Yeah, the series finale definitely took it to a new level for Smith. I'm now quite excited for the Christmas special and series 6.
I hope Moffat also goes back to the older style of the Doctor having multiple companions forming a family unit as opposed to the single companion thing RTD always did.
Spoiler:
I hope Moffat also goes back to the older style of the Doctor having multiple companions forming a family unit as opposed to the single companion thing RTD always did.
#447
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Just finished The Big Bang, and without spoiling, I have to say it was the craziest, convoluted, brilliant resolution to last week's cliffhanger. I loved it, it was funny, sad, touching, and gave me the biggest grin at the end of the show. Well done, great season. Ready for the Christmas Special already!
Spoiler:
#448
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
It almost feels like the crack in time stuff was something they had to get out of the way. I suspect the next series might be a lot more fun.
#449
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
Loved the finale. It was reminding me of the end of Bill & Ted with the future Doctor making sure his current self did the things necessary to get himself out of whatever jam he was in. And finally, we get to keep a Doctor/Companion combo together for more than one series. The turnover every series was starting to get tiresome. Bring on Christmas!
#450
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)
The finale felt like a 2 hour episode crammed into an hour. I'm not even sure I understand what happened, other than pushing a big reset button.