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Old 06-19-10, 09:33 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Broadcaster Stephen Fry last night hit out at the "infantilism" of British TV and said that heavily promoted shows like Doctor Who, while being good programmes, were the equivalent of chicken nuggets.

He also spoke of the "absurdity" of some compliance rules, and said "fear" is everywhere in the television industry in this country.

Fry, who hosts QI, said that the programmes were "like a chicken nugget. Every now and again we all like it … But if you are an adult you want something surprising, savoury, sharp, unusual, cosmopolitan, alien, challenging, complex, ambiguous, possibly even slightly disturbing and wrong.

"You want to try those things, because that's what being adult means."

Fry was delivering the Bafta Annual Television Lecture in central London.

During a question and answer session after his speech, Fry told the audience: "If I wanted to be angry … I would say infantilism's the problem.

"The number of times I turn on the television and I think 'Gosh, children's television's gone on, that's a really good art documentary … Oh my God, it's nine o'clock in the evening. This is for grown-ups?' It's just shocking.

"The only drama the BBC will boast about are Merlin and Doctor Who, which are fine, but they're children's programmes. They're not for adults.

"And they're very good children's programmes, don't get me wrong, they're wonderfully written … but they are not for adults.

Fry said he was not arguing that all television should be pompous, academic or intellectual.

"But they ought to surprise and to astonish and to make us feel perhaps the possibility there is a world outside that we know nothing of to provoke us, to provoke in the best sense of the word, sometimes in the worst sense," he said.

"To surprise us, to outrage us."

Fry also highlighted what he felt was a lack of confidence among producers, although said the BBC would point to shows such as Gavin and Stacey and Little Britain.

He said: "These are very successful. But they are also unbelievably Balkanised.

"They are set into a particular demographic. This is what I mean by television not being the nation's fireplace. ..

"It's just all parcelled and I don't know that there's a solution to it."

Fry said that compliance issues and boxes that had to be ticked were what "everyone knows the public don't want".

He also said that the Sachsgate scandal involving Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand helped fuel a sense of "fear".

He mentioned a friend who was involved in making an episode of spy drama Spooks who was told a character had to wear a seatbelt in their car while saving London in the plot.

He also said it was mentioned the actor should pull over while talking on the phone, despite someone having been shot in an earlier scene.

Fry later said: "The temptation to scream 'F*** off' so loudly... there is no possible excuse, defence or claim that you can make that justifies such absurdity.
I don't think he said anything too outrageous and much of it is the often heard complaints about the dumbing down of television. DW is more of a family show than a pure children's programming, but still his chicken nugget analogy seems apt.

The examples of BBC safety policies for Spooks remind me of an episode of QI where Fry wanted to have the panelists inhale helium to demonstrate the effects but he said they were prevented from doing so by BBC's "health and f***ing Safety."
Old 06-19-10, 09:39 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

The build up to this first part of the finale was intense. Let's see if they can wrap it up satisfactorily. Nice little nod to Captain Jack early on...
Old 06-19-10, 09:41 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Interestingly, Fry wrote an episode for Who a few years ago, but wasn't available to do re-writes and it was scrapped. But I don't look at his comments as a condemnation of the show in any way. I think he's spot on, and American broadcast television is just as bad, if not worse.
Old 06-19-10, 09:48 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Fry should get cable. HBO, FX, Showtime... these are where the adult shows are.
Old 06-19-10, 10:42 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Hmm, an interesting episode. I'm curious as to how they will wrap it up. Is this going to get resolved in a Christmas special or is there one more episode after this?
Old 06-19-10, 10:45 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

next ep is the series finale
Old 06-19-10, 10:49 PM
  #432  
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by Yo Mama
next ep is the series finale
In American terms, this means "Season Finale".

Just in case somebody starts freaking out...
Old 06-20-10, 02:14 AM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Pretty obvious who was going to be in/put in the Pandorica. I really liked the call-backs to previous episodes this series and the idea of the alliance to take care of the Doctor once and for all.

Still no Zygons, dammit!
Old 06-20-10, 10:51 AM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by Yo Mama
next ep is the series finale
OK, good to know. RTD always resolved his cliffhangers in the same series, and used the series finale of each to lead in to the Christmas special, but I wasn't sure if Moffat would do the same.
Old 06-20-10, 12:26 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

I thought this was one of the best of the year. I certainly didn't get the big reveal until it happened. I kept thinking about that head that burst through at the end of the Series 5 promo. I'm not familiar with old Who, but based on people referencing a name I figured 1 + Pandorica = 2.

I also really liked the opening sequence reflecting back on a lot of the people and Amy have encountered throughout the series.

I am confused about
Spoiler:
Rory. Did he really die and everything in the past was/is somehow created by the alliance to trap the Doctor? How would that account for Rory's memories though?


I liked the Losteque music use with a twist. Excited to see how it all wraps up!
Old 06-20-10, 12:58 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by N2DVD
And the most intriguing idea of all to me "Only the Doctor can fly the TARDIS". But wait, what? Does that mean...wow, that would explain a lot!
That was my thought, too...
Old 06-20-10, 07:55 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Loved the ending and definitely noticed the Lost-esque music as well. I'm really hoping next week's episode is a great one.
Old 06-21-10, 06:28 AM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by boredsilly
I liked it. I actually felt like the Doctor's turn at the end was a little abrupt. It seems like that is something they could have been working towards a bit more clearly for the last season or two. I mean, there are hints of it there, but with Tennant only having one more episode, I feel like we should have been conscious of a building towards this. Hell, even just build to it over the specials. I did like it though.

It does feel like this show has a very specific "space station" storyline. All of the episodes that have occurred on them in this series feel very similar to me. The look of the water people was freaky. It would have been nice if they explained a bit more clearly why this water could cut through steel, but whatever. I can let that go.
The episode itself was cool. Nothing spectacular .
Old 06-21-10, 12:19 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Well, I kinda' figured the ending to part one early in the episode. Just guessed
Spoiler:
maybe the prison contains, or will contain,the Doc?
and once all the baddies showed up, it made sense.

Regards to Superman07's spoiler question.
Spoiler:
I agree its somewhat confusing. Real Rory is presumably dead. "Centurion Rory" was an Auton that was programmed to be Rory. But why? Whats the point? I guess it was a method to further draw (and distract) the Doc into that particular timeframe and moment.


I didn't like the grandstand moment. I generally hate NuWho making the Doc such a big, mythic figure. Far preferred him being a space tramp that just happened to be involved in all this big mess. NuWho making him always call out and mock his nemesis is getting really tired.

As for Stephen Fry's comments, he was just using Who as a referance point, not saying Who should be for adults, that generally BBC primetime was aimed at a less sophisticated audience which includes broad appeal oriented Who... Oh, and Fry was actually one of my dream choices for a new Doctor (the others being, in order of preference, Robert Carlyle, Rhys Ifans, or in a never happen, snowballs chance in Wacky Weirdsville Hell, Dylan Moran).
Old 06-21-10, 01:27 PM
  #440  
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

I saw a picture from part 2. Damn it!
Old 06-21-10, 01:35 PM
  #441  
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by Superman07
I saw a picture from part 2. Damn it!
This one?

[spoiler][/spioler]
Old 06-21-10, 01:51 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by Groucho
This one?
No, it had
Spoiler:
Young Amy and the Pandorica.
I knew I should have waited to watch these back to back! I even appreciated that there was no "Next Time" as well.
Old 06-21-10, 02:09 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Do they usually do a next time when it's a two-parter?
Old 06-21-10, 02:12 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Do they usually do a next time when it's a two-parter?
Sometimes. If they do, the "Next Time" comes after the credits instead of before.
Old 06-26-10, 09:48 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Just finished The Big Bang, and without spoiling, I have to say it was the craziest, convoluted, brilliant resolution to last week's cliffhanger. I loved it, it was funny, sad, touching, and gave me the biggest grin at the end of the show. Well done, great season. Ready for the Christmas Special already!
Old 06-26-10, 09:52 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Yeah, the series finale definitely took it to a new level for Smith. I'm now quite excited for the Christmas special and series 6.

Spoiler:
Also, it looks like series 6 is when we'll finally have River as a regular, meeting the Doctor at the correct point in their timelines. I'd prefer that to having her show up in the wrong order every third episode.


I hope Moffat also goes back to the older style of the Doctor having multiple companions forming a family unit as opposed to the single companion thing RTD always did.
Old 06-26-10, 10:02 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Originally Posted by N2DVD
Just finished The Big Bang, and without spoiling, I have to say it was the craziest, convoluted, brilliant resolution to last week's cliffhanger. I loved it, it was funny, sad, touching, and gave me the biggest grin at the end of the show. Well done, great season. Ready for the Christmas Special already!
Convoluted is the one word I would use to describe that one for sure. It was decent, but I wish

Spoiler:
they would have done more with all of the baddies there in the same place from the end of the previous episode. All the intense build up of that was kind of for nothing.
Old 06-26-10, 11:18 PM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

It almost feels like the crack in time stuff was something they had to get out of the way. I suspect the next series might be a lot more fun.
Old 06-27-10, 08:57 AM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

Loved the finale. It was reminding me of the end of Bill & Ted with the future Doctor making sure his current self did the things necessary to get himself out of whatever jam he was in. And finally, we get to keep a Doctor/Companion combo together for more than one series. The turnover every series was starting to get tiresome. Bring on Christmas!
Old 06-27-10, 09:39 AM
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Discussion (BBC)

The finale felt like a 2 hour episode crammed into an hour. I'm not even sure I understand what happened, other than pushing a big reset button.


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