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NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

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NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Old 03-21-09, 01:50 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

NBC canceled Freak and Geeks a show that created bigger celebs than Friends. Rogen, Franco, Segel > Schwimmer, LeBlanc, Perry. What were they thinking?
Old 03-21-09, 02:05 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

This is actually a great remark by Zucker because it shows that with modern communications technology, TV viewing is no longer a "mass" viewing experience outside of live events.

When you have services like iTunes, Hulu.com, video-on-demand on both cable TV and satellite, the idea of Nielsen ratings become almost meaningless.

I mean, think about it: the high-rated Super Bowl ever was Super Bowl XVI with a 49.1 rating. But with the Super Bowl nowdays being a "shared" experience with people watching in sports bars or have parties where a bunch of people watch the game on one TV, Nielsen numbers have less meaning because they don't measure accurately "shared" viewing experiences.
Old 03-21-09, 11:52 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs
NBC canceled Freak and Geeks a show that created bigger celebs than Friends. Rogen, Franco, Segel > Schwimmer, LeBlanc, Perry. What were they thinking?
Because no one watched Freaks and Geeks and everyone watched Friends? You really don't understand that?
Old 03-21-09, 04:10 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by Draven
If no one is watching Journeyman (and they weren't), then it has no prayer of staying on the air. NBC is being generous with a LOT of their shows, just to have something on there.
The whole argument here is that people don't just watch conventional television.

Journeyman fits that bill very nicely...there was a serious campaign to keep that show on the air, with ardent fans who obviously didn't just watch live. I didn't get into the show until the last show was one week to air! So, therefore, obviously not great in the marketing department, and barely around long enough to pick up fans like myself. That's their whole argument now as to why they're keeping shit shows!

You could say JM was given a chance, but 13 episodes? Compared to the 'chance' they've given Knight Rider....well, there is no comparison. Any idiot should have been able to see that JM was a MUCH better constructed show than that KITT piece of shit.
Old 03-21-09, 04:13 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

*Sorry to offend the Knight Rider fan, but that show had more plot holes, retcons and contrivances than Smallville.

And that's pretty bad.
Old 03-21-09, 04:36 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix
Journeyman fits that bill very nicely...there was a serious campaign to keep that show on the air, with ardent fans who obviously didn't just watch live. I didn't get into the show until the last show was one week to air! So, therefore, obviously not great in the marketing department, and barely around long enough to pick up fans like myself. That's their whole argument now as to why they're keeping shit shows!
I watched Journeyman from episode 1. I'm sorry, but that's the viewer that has value, not someone who comes in 13 episodes in.

I truly believe the only reason Heroes and some other underperforming shows are still on the air these days is because they have NOTHING to replace them with.
Old 03-21-09, 06:30 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

I think the problem with his statement is that he's pretty clearly saying the NBC will settle for mediocrity. When you aim to be middle-of-the-pack, you'll hit the target much lower.

I've just checked and I watch seven shows on NBC (Kings, Chuck, Life, and the Thursday comedies). I've watched the Thursday comedies since Cosby anchored the night. The line-up is still pretty strong, but there's no way another exec would have allowed Kath and Kim to go on as long as it has. I think the reason is that he knows enough quality material around it, people will be too lazy or apathetic to change the channel (and I'll admit that I fit that description).

Zucker's attitude to me seems similar to Mrs. Carlson in the final episode of WKRP in Cincinnati. IMHO, when you're looking too closely at the bottom line at the expense of putting out a good product, you'll eventually have neither.

P.S. I miss Brandon Tartikoff.

Last edited by Barings; 03-21-09 at 06:32 PM.
Old 03-21-09, 06:46 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Another fan of Journeyman here and it was said to see it go while Heroes remains.
Old 03-21-09, 11:05 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

I think they are going in the right direction, and that can save a lot of our shows.
If you only take Nielsen in consideration you are just halfway there. Today you have to consider online, on-demand, even xbox live and PSN, and of course DVD and Blu-Ray.
Old 03-22-09, 12:03 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

NBC is probably my most watched network right now with Law & Order, L&O - SVU, 30 Rock, The Office and on occasion, the Biggest Loser and ER. They do have a ton of programming holes as compared to the 90's and I think it all began when they failed to maintain Must See TV Thursday which for most of the 90's was an absolute juggernaut with Friends, Seinfeld and ER. They failed miserably in placing anything in the Seinfeld slot, so by the time Friends left, Must See TV was dead.
Old 03-22-09, 12:04 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

In the past, all the networks were cancel-happy unless their new shows/current shows were putting up outstanding numbers. NBC and FOX this season were probably the most patient networks I have ever seen.

Terminator, Prison Break and even Dollhouse have gotten well below 10M viewers and even below 5M viewers and in the past FOX would have axed those shows in a heartbeat. However, they have managed to stick around an entire season miraculously. I have to credit their President Kevin Reilly for not being the trigger happy tool that some of his predecessors were.

And sticking to this topic. Friday Night Lights has never been a huge hit. The 1st season always got under 10M viewers, but managed to get a full 22 episode season (mainly due to Reilly who green lighted the show) and managed to stick around for a season 2 and even now a season 3 with very below average numbers. However, they are still sticking with it and there is even talk of a 4th and 5th season.

Knight Rider, Kim and Kath or whatever it's called got horrible numbers, but managed to get more than 13 episodes or even early cancellation.

Heroes has been sinking and sinking since season 2, but they are sticking with it for a 4th season. And even Chuck, which is a fan favorite, has gotten horrible numbers on Monday's and probably would have been cancelled in the past with them, but NBC committed to it for a full season.

I don't know about all of you, but I think the times are changing and some of the Executives, even though they may be Tools, are thinking outside the box and not looking at Black and White numbers for a change.

NBC probably has some of the lowest Nielsen rated programs right now, but they have stuck to all of them.
Old 03-22-09, 12:10 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

BTW, for those of you who continue to blast Journeyman's cancellation. I was as much a fan of the show as all of you, but NBC wasn't entirely to blame for it's demise.

Yeah, Monday's at 10pm sucked and it got killed by CSI: Miami and The Bachelor, but.....

The WGA strike killed the show and also when 20th Century FOX, who produced the show, decided to terminate Kevin Falls, JM's creator, production deal the show was DOA.

I think if the strike never happened, NBC probably would have ordered more scripts or even a few more episodes than 13 to see where it would go.
Old 03-22-09, 01:32 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Nielsen Ratings is an outdated dinosaur that either needs massive revamping so they can include numbers from online sources and on demand viewers or just give it up. I suppose they still serve a purpose to something...though I don't know what. Do advertisers even pay attention to their numbers any more like they once did? Or do they also consider the other ways people can and will watch the programming?

At any rate, I think this is a decent approach, much like the NBC of the 80s that focused on keeping good shows on the air regardless of the ratings from Nielsen, and it prove to be a runaway success for them. While they do have a lot of reality programming that's just throw away junk, I think their scripted shows are among my favorites on the air right now.
Old 03-22-09, 07:16 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by calhoun07
Nielsen Ratings is an outdated dinosaur that either needs massive revamping so they can include numbers from online sources and on demand viewers or just give it up. I suppose they still serve a purpose to something...though I don't know what. Do advertisers even pay attention to their numbers any more like they once did? Or do they also consider the other ways people can and will watch the programming?
The audience measurement fiasco of Star Trek during its original run on NBC was why Neilsen had to extensively revise its measurement methods--if Nielsen had used their current method of counting viewers to measure the Star Trek during its first run it would have been considered a hit by modern standards.

As such, I do think we will see a huge sea change in the way Nielsen measures its audience over the next few years, especially since they will have to start considering viewership via devices like TiVo, online viewing and sales of TV series on home video. The surprising success of Hulu.com and increasingly Fancast.com will force this change.
Old 03-22-09, 08:24 AM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by tucker
right now they have no goods shows
Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs
NBC has decent sitcoms but everything else it really complete rubbage.
Statements like these two will never be true while Friday Night Lights is on the air. It's one of the best damn shows on television and the underrated Chuck is a very fun show to watch as well.

Having a Tivo means I don't care about networks anymore. I'm my own network executive. I didn't realize how many shows I do watch are on NBC. With the aforementioned FNL & Chuck, the Office, Earl, ER & Heroes get spots on my DVR as well.
Old 07-27-09, 01:42 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethe...ut-at-nbc.html

Ben Silverman ushered out at NBC
By Rick Porter

July 27, 2009 8:48 AM

Ben Silverman, the man who was supposed to lead NBC back to the top of the ratings mountain, is leaving the network after two years on the job and no change in the standings.

Silverman is "returning to his entrepreneurial roots," as an NBC press release puts it, to form a new multimedia venture with media mogul Barry Diller. He'll stay at the network for a short time to help launch the fall schedule, then depart.

NBC Universal has also reorganized its executive structure a bit in the wake of Silverman's departure. He had been co-chairman of NBC Entertainment and Universal Media Studios with Marc Graboff; Graboff will keep the chairman title but will report to Jeff Gaspin, who has the new title of chairman of NBC Universal Television Entertainment.

Gaspin was already the head of NBC Universal's cable portfolio and is now adding broadcast TV to his purview as well.

Silverman's two-year tenure was a roller coaster. NBC has been stuck in fourth place in the ratings for the past couple seasons, but Silverman's vaunted success as a producer -- he counts "The Office," "Ugly Betty" and "The Biggest Loser" among his credits -- didn't translate to hits when he became a network executive.

None of the shows NBC launched last fall made it to a second season. Last December, NBC gave responsibility for prime-time programming to Angela Bromstad and Paul Telegdy, removing Silverman from the programming side.

Silverman's deal with Diller's IAC calls for the formation of a new company that will "unite producers, creators, advertisers and distributors under one roof and produce all forms of content for distribution across a variety of platforms." NBC Universal is considering investing in the new venture and will have "platform partnerships" with it as it gets rolling.

Follow Zap2it on Twitter for the latest TV, movie and celebrity news.
Chris
Old 07-27-09, 02:47 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs
NBC canceled Freak and Geeks a show that created bigger celebs than Friends. Rogen, Franco, Segel > Schwimmer, LeBlanc, Perry. What were they thinking?
I know this is an older post but aren't you putting the cart before the horse? If NBC had kept F&G on the air for, say, 5 years(a modest hit but not on the level of Friends), do you think the cast would have gone on to do what they have done?

James Franco would have been busy when Spider-man came calling. Linda Cardellini would have likewise been busy on F&G when ER was looking for a new nurse. Likewise for Jason Segel when the casting call for HIMYM comes about. Would Seth Rogen have made time to write if he was on a more successful F&G? Also, we may not have gotten Undeclared had F&G lingered on.

Lastly there were few celebs bigger than the cast of Friends at its peak. It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.
Old 07-27-09, 05:32 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Lastly there were few celebs bigger than the cast of Friends at its peak. It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.
I'd argue Jennifer Aniston has had a better career than any Freaks & Geeks alum as well. She's a magazine darling, and has had critical (The Good Girl) and commercial (The Break-Up, Marley & Me) hits. Rogen, Segel, Cardellini, and Franco have had good careers, but they aren't nearly as recognizable as Aniston.
Old 07-27-09, 06:40 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Rogen, Segel, Cardellini, and Franco have had good careers, but they aren't nearly as recognizable as Aniston.
That's only because the media hounds her. Rogen and Segel are very well-known now and are starring in successful comedies, and of course Franco is mainly known as Harry from Spidey but what's the last thing Aniston did? She's not really a box-office draw.
Old 07-27-09, 07:00 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by mcfly
That's only because the media hounds her. Rogen and Segel are very well-known now and are starring in successful comedies, and of course Franco is mainly known as Harry from Spidey but what's the last thing Aniston did? She's not really a box-office draw.
You don't think so, huh?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marleyandme.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...hatintoyou.htm
Old 07-27-09, 07:05 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Despite the bad reputation that Silverman, I can't hate the guy since he made the effort to renew Friday Night Lights and Chuck.

He also gave Life a 2nd season when it probably didn't deserve one.

So, I won't be a Silverman hater.
Old 07-27-09, 07:42 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by DJariya
Despite the bad reputation that Silverman, I can't hate the guy since he made the effort to renew Friday Night Lights and Chuck.

He also gave Life a 2nd season when it probably didn't deserve one.

So, I won't be a Silverman hater.
Exactly.

I fear for Chuck now
Old 07-27-09, 08:24 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Also, we may not have gotten Undeclared had F&G lingered on.
If Undeclared or Freaks and Geeks lingered on, Apatow would've never jumped ship to the film world (he has stated many times that he would never return to television). We may have never gotten Anchorman, 40-Year-Old Virgin, Knocked Up, etc.

Looking back on it, as great as Freaks and Geeks and Undeclared were, it may have been a blessing in disguise that both got cancelled by their respective networks.
Old 07-27-09, 08:43 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

I kind of feel sorry for Silverman. It's not his fault the budget for the channel was so terrible that he had to fill so much time with craptacular reality programing and like 4 airings of Deal or No Deal each week.

My question is how much did he have to do with the decision on Leno getting a nightly prime time show? Is the future of that show threatened?
Old 07-27-09, 08:49 PM
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Re: NBC will never be No. 1 in prime time-Zucker

Originally Posted by calhoun07
I kind of feel sorry for Silverman. It's not his fault the budget for the channel was so terrible that he had to fill so much time with craptacular reality programing and like 4 airings of Deal or No Deal each week.
A lot of people in the industry blame Zucker and Silverman for NBC's failure. While GE/Universal is raking in the dough due to their investment into Hulu, Silverman has made horrible choices in terms of programming. While some gems are still on the air (Friday Night Lights, The Office, and 30 Rock); most of them would've never seen the light of day past their second or third season on another network. The flip-side is they've invested too much into old network ideals. Just look at the multiple nights of Deal or No Deal. ABC learned their lesson a year ago with their Millionaire mishap. NBC is slowly realizing this now (if you forget history, you're doomed to repeat it).

The sad thing to say is there's nothing for the common viewer. NBC moved L&O: CI to USA and gave up Medium in which CBS picked up. They have no shows that a "general audience" could watch. CBS has all their high rated crime dramas and higher rated sitcoms, ABC has all their serialized shows, and FOX has American Idol, House, Bones and 24. NBC needs to actually listen to an audience to get back where they once were.

I'm sure NBC could be back on top one day, they just need a change in management.

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