Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
08-02-09, 09:15 PM
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Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
I feel like I've just had this meal that I've craved for so long, that went down ok, and got points for satisfying a craving- but is now coming back up like acid reflux the more thought I put into it.
The finale, at the time, was emotionally satisfying for me.
Maybe Return Of The Jedi was a poor comparision, because I never ever got any emotional satisfaction out of that conclusion.
Probably a better one would be The Dark Knight. There was so much righteous cool interspersed with the teeth-grindingly stupid that it makes for very frustrating reflection. As both were initially unspooling, I was able to go with the flow and not get hung up by obvious lapses of character motivation and logic, but it didn't take long afterwards for all of that to come home to roost.
I'm still digesting this, and it's possible that in a few days I may revisit Daybreak and watch the extended version and see if smoothes over any of my problems.
I've spent the last day going thru various forums, seeing what other peoples reactions were to the end when it first aired. Probably the best give and take I've seen so far has been on CHUD. Some of the response there, to people arguing the same points I have, have given me a little pause.
After a bit of distance I may come around to just shrugging off most of the problems here as just unfortunate lapses in execution rather than conceptual weaknesses, which to me would be the bigger sin. At least I hope so. This show entranced me like few others for the majority of its 4 seasons. Even when it was less than magical, it still scored on the most basic level of leaving me curious to see what came next.
I will say that one aspect of the end that I loved was how much time was devoted to a slow exit. The show definitely earned that time. I just believe/wish that there had been more nods to pragmatic reality sprinkled in. I didn't need to see full on shouting matches- but I would have liked to have seen what were sure to be upcoming sources of conflict at least being anticipated by some of the characters. Even just a line or two about arguing the position of moving away from the technology- it didn't need to nor should have been resolved on screen, and it didn't need to trample on the graceful 'winding down' tone of the last forty minutes. I would have like to have seen at least one short scene where some of the educated elites were hashing out how to pragmatically proceed, and at least anticipating what would be some of the first (of many) big conflicts to come up.
The people that shepherded this show thru 2 whip smart first seasons, should have recognized the glaring omission of some scene like that, and ordered pickups right quick to address it.
The finale, at the time, was emotionally satisfying for me.
Maybe Return Of The Jedi was a poor comparision, because I never ever got any emotional satisfaction out of that conclusion.
Probably a better one would be The Dark Knight. There was so much righteous cool interspersed with the teeth-grindingly stupid that it makes for very frustrating reflection. As both were initially unspooling, I was able to go with the flow and not get hung up by obvious lapses of character motivation and logic, but it didn't take long afterwards for all of that to come home to roost.
I'm still digesting this, and it's possible that in a few days I may revisit Daybreak and watch the extended version and see if smoothes over any of my problems.
I've spent the last day going thru various forums, seeing what other peoples reactions were to the end when it first aired. Probably the best give and take I've seen so far has been on CHUD. Some of the response there, to people arguing the same points I have, have given me a little pause.
After a bit of distance I may come around to just shrugging off most of the problems here as just unfortunate lapses in execution rather than conceptual weaknesses, which to me would be the bigger sin. At least I hope so. This show entranced me like few others for the majority of its 4 seasons. Even when it was less than magical, it still scored on the most basic level of leaving me curious to see what came next.
I will say that one aspect of the end that I loved was how much time was devoted to a slow exit. The show definitely earned that time. I just believe/wish that there had been more nods to pragmatic reality sprinkled in. I didn't need to see full on shouting matches- but I would have liked to have seen what were sure to be upcoming sources of conflict at least being anticipated by some of the characters. Even just a line or two about arguing the position of moving away from the technology- it didn't need to nor should have been resolved on screen, and it didn't need to trample on the graceful 'winding down' tone of the last forty minutes. I would have like to have seen at least one short scene where some of the educated elites were hashing out how to pragmatically proceed, and at least anticipating what would be some of the first (of many) big conflicts to come up.
The people that shepherded this show thru 2 whip smart first seasons, should have recognized the glaring omission of some scene like that, and ordered pickups right quick to address it.
battlestar_blog on LiveJournal has some good reads in regards to opinions on the finale, too. Very articulate and fun to read because they come straight from die-hard fans of the show & the reactions vary wildly.
I'm usually a very picky person who points out flaws in a lot of the things I watch, so I fully expected to do the same with the finale, but I never really did. It's difficult to explain why, other than what I already said about how it touched me on an emotional level. I don't cry when I watch things, but the waterworks flow like nothing else whenever I see it. There's probably even a part of me that enjoyed just how flawed it was; imperfect but still incredibly powerful.
re: the extended version of Daybreak, it doesn't really do anything to address the problems you had with it, it's mostly just added character bits and extensions of existing scenes. It does show Starbuck and Adama at odds over connecting Anders to the CIC (which is really a fantastic scene) & Tory and Ellen at odds over the assault on the Colony. It has some good flashbacks for Boomer & Chief and Cally. But I think the presentation of it is outstanding and really gives it an epic feel.
08-03-09, 04:50 PM
#302
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
I disagree the ending was "as happy as it could possibly be." No, it could have been happier if more characters we had cared about for 4 years lived to see the end, or if more of the characters that actually made it to Earth had lived happily ever after instead of alone.
08-03-09, 05:32 PM
#303
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
It's a miracle anyone made it to the end. Did they ever prove themselves worthy of survival as foreshadowed in Adama's decommissioning speech?
12-29-10, 11:55 PM
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Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
150,000 years later ... I finally finish watching Battlestar Galactica. Odds are nobody cares anymore, but here we go anyway ...
No series will ever have a satisfactory ending (to me). Well, Newhart was pretty close. My initial reaction was "what the frak?" I think it still is ... at least I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. I won't re-hash 11 pages of a year-old thread ...
John/Cavil's suicide ... this bothered me the most. Completely out of character for a sentient (hyper-sentient?) being that had fought so vigilantly to survive at every turn. There is no way this character offs himself in a split second moment of despair. You cannot make ANY plausible argument that he found this to be an "escape" from being killed/captured. He spent his whole run rejecting the notion of a higher being (thus any notion of an after-life to escape to). He knew that resurrection was gone (hence the reason we had reached this point in the story). There is no way that a cornered rabid animal does anything less than fight with every last fiber of its existence.
Why did any of this happen once the Final Five began to download resurrection? A truce was already in effect ... both sides had ceased firing and terms had been reached. The Cylons would receive resurrection in exchange for leaving. OK, so this didn't get them to earth (small "e" on purpose) ... If "It" (the supreme being) needed the humans on earth, and it didn't matter that Cylons DID go with them, there were easier ways than continuing the wanton death and destruction through a few brief moments of chaos. I thought the point would be Cylons would not be allowed on earth (i.e., humans were the Chosen Ones) and this would begin the cycle all over again ... when it became apparent that we would keep Cylon allies, it became very obvious that humans and Cylons were closer to "one" than we thought -- which is where I expected the whole show to go -- we ultimately learn that humans and humanoid Cylons are truly one and the same ... (I've seen just the first few episodes of Caprica, which seemed to reinforce this ... the Final Five had to be humans somewhere along the line, ala Zoe).
And just for a bit of flair ... did anybody else find it racist that "Cylons that look like us can stay, anybody who sparkles has to go."
As for EVERYBODY agreeing to abandon the life they had fought so hard to hang on to ... I don't think everybody did abandon technology and stay on earth ... I think anybody who wanted to stay on the ships was allowed to stay ... Adama just didn't tell them the ships were headed into the sun. (I don't really buy that, but it is pretty damn cold and interesting.)
(Now I am going to resume watching Lost ... I'm in the early part of Season 4 ... see you in that thread in another 150,000 years ...)
No series will ever have a satisfactory ending (to me). Well, Newhart was pretty close. My initial reaction was "what the frak?" I think it still is ... at least I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. I won't re-hash 11 pages of a year-old thread ...
John/Cavil's suicide ... this bothered me the most. Completely out of character for a sentient (hyper-sentient?) being that had fought so vigilantly to survive at every turn. There is no way this character offs himself in a split second moment of despair. You cannot make ANY plausible argument that he found this to be an "escape" from being killed/captured. He spent his whole run rejecting the notion of a higher being (thus any notion of an after-life to escape to). He knew that resurrection was gone (hence the reason we had reached this point in the story). There is no way that a cornered rabid animal does anything less than fight with every last fiber of its existence.
Why did any of this happen once the Final Five began to download resurrection? A truce was already in effect ... both sides had ceased firing and terms had been reached. The Cylons would receive resurrection in exchange for leaving. OK, so this didn't get them to earth (small "e" on purpose) ... If "It" (the supreme being) needed the humans on earth, and it didn't matter that Cylons DID go with them, there were easier ways than continuing the wanton death and destruction through a few brief moments of chaos. I thought the point would be Cylons would not be allowed on earth (i.e., humans were the Chosen Ones) and this would begin the cycle all over again ... when it became apparent that we would keep Cylon allies, it became very obvious that humans and Cylons were closer to "one" than we thought -- which is where I expected the whole show to go -- we ultimately learn that humans and humanoid Cylons are truly one and the same ... (I've seen just the first few episodes of Caprica, which seemed to reinforce this ... the Final Five had to be humans somewhere along the line, ala Zoe).
And just for a bit of flair ... did anybody else find it racist that "Cylons that look like us can stay, anybody who sparkles has to go."
As for EVERYBODY agreeing to abandon the life they had fought so hard to hang on to ... I don't think everybody did abandon technology and stay on earth ... I think anybody who wanted to stay on the ships was allowed to stay ... Adama just didn't tell them the ships were headed into the sun. (I don't really buy that, but it is pretty damn cold and interesting.)
(Now I am going to resume watching Lost ... I'm in the early part of Season 4 ... see you in that thread in another 150,000 years ...)
12-30-10, 12:28 AM
#305
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
150,000 years later ... I finally finish watching Battlestar Galactica. Odds are nobody cares anymore, but here we go anyway ...
No series will ever have a satisfactory ending (to me). Well, Newhart was pretty close. My initial reaction was "what the frak?" I think it still is ... at least I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. I won't re-hash 11 pages of a year-old thread ...
John/Cavil's suicide ... this bothered me the most. Completely out of character for a sentient (hyper-sentient?) being that had fought so vigilantly to survive at every turn. There is no way this character offs himself in a split second moment of despair. You cannot make ANY plausible argument that he found this to be an "escape" from being killed/captured. He spent his whole run rejecting the notion of a higher being (thus any notion of an after-life to escape to). He knew that resurrection was gone (hence the reason we had reached this point in the story). There is no way that a cornered rabid animal does anything less than fight with every last fiber of its existence.
Why did any of this happen once the Final Five began to download resurrection? A truce was already in effect ... both sides had ceased firing and terms had been reached. The Cylons would receive resurrection in exchange for leaving. OK, so this didn't get them to earth (small "e" on purpose) ... If "It" (the supreme being) needed the humans on earth, and it didn't matter that Cylons DID go with them, there were easier ways than continuing the wanton death and destruction through a few brief moments of chaos. I thought the point would be Cylons would not be allowed on earth (i.e., humans were the Chosen Ones) and this would begin the cycle all over again ... when it became apparent that we would keep Cylon allies, it became very obvious that humans and Cylons were closer to "one" than we thought -- which is where I expected the whole show to go -- we ultimately learn that humans and humanoid Cylons are truly one and the same ... (I've seen just the first few episodes of Caprica, which seemed to reinforce this ... the Final Five had to be humans somewhere along the line, ala Zoe).
And just for a bit of flair ... did anybody else find it racist that "Cylons that look like us can stay, anybody who sparkles has to go."
As for EVERYBODY agreeing to abandon the life they had fought so hard to hang on to ... I don't think everybody did abandon technology and stay on earth ... I think anybody who wanted to stay on the ships was allowed to stay ... Adama just didn't tell them the ships were headed into the sun. (I don't really buy that, but it is pretty damn cold and interesting.)
(Now I am going to resume watching Lost ... I'm in the early part of Season 4 ... see you in that thread in another 150,000 years ...)
No series will ever have a satisfactory ending (to me). Well, Newhart was pretty close. My initial reaction was "what the frak?" I think it still is ... at least I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. I won't re-hash 11 pages of a year-old thread ...
John/Cavil's suicide ... this bothered me the most. Completely out of character for a sentient (hyper-sentient?) being that had fought so vigilantly to survive at every turn. There is no way this character offs himself in a split second moment of despair. You cannot make ANY plausible argument that he found this to be an "escape" from being killed/captured. He spent his whole run rejecting the notion of a higher being (thus any notion of an after-life to escape to). He knew that resurrection was gone (hence the reason we had reached this point in the story). There is no way that a cornered rabid animal does anything less than fight with every last fiber of its existence.
Why did any of this happen once the Final Five began to download resurrection? A truce was already in effect ... both sides had ceased firing and terms had been reached. The Cylons would receive resurrection in exchange for leaving. OK, so this didn't get them to earth (small "e" on purpose) ... If "It" (the supreme being) needed the humans on earth, and it didn't matter that Cylons DID go with them, there were easier ways than continuing the wanton death and destruction through a few brief moments of chaos. I thought the point would be Cylons would not be allowed on earth (i.e., humans were the Chosen Ones) and this would begin the cycle all over again ... when it became apparent that we would keep Cylon allies, it became very obvious that humans and Cylons were closer to "one" than we thought -- which is where I expected the whole show to go -- we ultimately learn that humans and humanoid Cylons are truly one and the same ... (I've seen just the first few episodes of Caprica, which seemed to reinforce this ... the Final Five had to be humans somewhere along the line, ala Zoe).
And just for a bit of flair ... did anybody else find it racist that "Cylons that look like us can stay, anybody who sparkles has to go."
As for EVERYBODY agreeing to abandon the life they had fought so hard to hang on to ... I don't think everybody did abandon technology and stay on earth ... I think anybody who wanted to stay on the ships was allowed to stay ... Adama just didn't tell them the ships were headed into the sun. (I don't really buy that, but it is pretty damn cold and interesting.)
(Now I am going to resume watching Lost ... I'm in the early part of Season 4 ... see you in that thread in another 150,000 years ...)
12-30-10, 09:13 AM
#306
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
John/Cavil's suicide ... this bothered me the most. Completely out of character for a sentient (hyper-sentient?) being that had fought so vigilantly to survive at every turn. There is no way this character offs himself in a split second moment of despair. You cannot make ANY plausible argument that he found this to be an "escape" from being killed/captured. He spent his whole run rejecting the notion of a higher being (thus any notion of an after-life to escape to). He knew that resurrection was gone (hence the reason we had reached this point in the story). There is no way that a cornered rabid animal does anything less than fight with every last fiber of its existence.
12-30-10, 10:17 AM
#307
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
Six Feet Under says "hi". Most people agree that it had one of the most satisfactory series endings of all time. The Wire and The Shield aren't too far behind and there's a bunch more shows that had far, far better, more satisfying endings than BSG.
12-30-10, 11:36 AM
#308
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
I said a few posts ago (and over a year ago) that I enjoyed the ride despite not loving the finale and that I might end up feeling the same about Lost. Well, that was true. Lost is my all time favorite show, I LOVED the journey, but wasn't real happy with the conclusion. And I think it was about as unbelievable as BSG.
12-30-10, 11:59 AM
#311
DVD Talk Legend
01-22-11, 04:22 PM
#312
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
The wife and I just wrapped up the Blu Ray set. It was amusing reading this thread with everyone shifting their hopes over to Lost. 
My one logical complaint about the finale, which I haven't seen addressed here yet, was this: So God's one breaking point in this cycle is when man enslaves machines. So not guns or nuclear weapons or, you know, ACTUAL SLAVERY... but robots? Don't make robots and have them do your bidding? That's God's one pet peeve? Oooooooooookay...
My one logical complaint about the finale, which I haven't seen addressed here yet, was this: So God's one breaking point in this cycle is when man enslaves machines. So not guns or nuclear weapons or, you know, ACTUAL SLAVERY... but robots? Don't make robots and have them do your bidding? That's God's one pet peeve? Oooooooooookay...
01-22-11, 04:25 PM
#313
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
You mean the "One True God" heretics didn't really think it through? They were just lashing out at the Old Gods of Kobol and had different priorities.
01-05-12, 08:26 PM
#315
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
I thought this was pretty good. SPOILER WARNING: Do not watch the video if you haven't seen the entire series.
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01-07-12, 05:38 PM
#318
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
<object id="ch6683770" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://1.static.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/moogaloop/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6683770&use_node_id=true&fullscreen=1" width="600" height="338"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true"/><param name="wmode" value="transparent"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><param name="movie" quality="best" value="http://1.static.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/moogaloop/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6683770&use_node_id=true&fullscreen=1"/><embed src="http://1.static.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/moogaloop/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6683770&use_node_id=true&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="600" height="338" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object>
01-09-12, 12:36 AM
#320
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
Great stuff!
01-09-12, 05:55 AM
#321
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Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
Just finished watching the entire series.
It's unbelievable how badly this show ended. Almost as bad as the last season of Deep Space Nine.
The series as a whole really was as good as everyone was claiming it to be, but the ending was horrifically contrived.
It's unbelievable how badly this show ended. Almost as bad as the last season of Deep Space Nine.
The series as a whole really was as good as everyone was claiming it to be, but the ending was horrifically contrived.
01-09-12, 11:16 AM
#322
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Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
It's probably been said before, but this is the show that Star Trek: Voyager should have been. It's not surprising since Ron Moore came from that show, and only expressed his frustration at how he felt it wasn't living up to its potential. In fact, many plot points, such as a set population of survivors, limited resources, limited fighters and pilots, internal conflicts between the military and civilians, and especially the implications of a prisoner population are all handled with much more care than Voyager ever did.
01-09-12, 12:36 PM
#323
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
That video is
01-09-12, 12:39 PM
#324
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
I still like to pretend that the finale of season three and everything after never happened. It really improves my outlook on the series.
01-09-12, 04:32 PM
#325
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Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "Daybreak Parts 2 & 3" -- 03/20/2009 -- Series Finale
Wow, I must be the oddball in that I really enjoyed the final 10 episodes of the series. Season 4.0 left a lot to be desired, but 4.5 I thought ushered the series into a satisfying conclusing.