Red Dog

I don't know exactly what to think of this episode/subplot, but I certainly lean toward what Shazam said (although I don't share the happy Gaeta dead view) - it went nowhere, and the worst thing is that Adama/Rosalin coming out on top was entirely predictable.

Thos19

I thought it was great...though I echo the sentiment that I wish the rescue of Adama didn't happen off camera.

Thos.

TGM

FYI Katee Sackoff seems to have joined (if not just temporarily) the cast of Nip/Tuck in next weeks episode.

Tracer Bullet

Exactly. This show is really good at setting up hard choices but never makes them.

I've also never understood all the Gaeta-hate. Dude was probably the most capable officer in the fleet who continually got shat-upon by all the bigwigs, and lost his leg to boot. Maybe he should have been smarter than to throw in with a sociopath like Zarek, but nothing else he's ever done has made me dislike him.

If I were in the civilian fleet I'd be fed-up with a co-military/presidential cult of personality dictatorship, too.

Shazam

Oh, I liked Gaeta as well. It's just that that plot demanded that Zarek and Gaeta get executed, so if they copped out on that, well...

Tracer Bullet

The plot should never "demand" anything. If it does, then we're being given what we want or expect.

riley_dude

So... what was the significance of Gaeta and Baltar's conversation before his execution?

Palaver

I don't know the intended significance, but it resonated with me that the man who caused the near annihilation of the human race is walking around free and a man who had the best (though severely misguided) interests of the fleet is shot as a traitor.

Josh-da-man

As much as I did enjoy this storyline, I thought it was a little cheap they way it played out.

The thing is -- and the writers have even said this -- Gaeta wasn't necessarily in the wrong. He had a lot of valid issues.

But instead of facing this head-on, the mutineers were shown to be a bunch of murderers and rapists. So instead of actually dealing with the issues at hand, we had a Marine threatening to rape a mother carrying a small child and Zarek slaughtering everyone who got in his way. The mutineers lost all sympathy when Zarek planted a wrench in the back of Laird's skull.

DarkestPhoenix

Even the ones who now religiously believe it is their 'destiny' to live with the humans? That their extermination was completely wrong??

I'm glad you never had to negotiate a peace treaty. It's easy to take this point of view of black/white wrong/right, but at some point, you have to make the choice to deal with the enemy or ethnically cleanse.

How is slaughtering every Cylon better than the Cylons slaughtering every human?

DarkestPhoenix

So...you're telling me Adama ISN'T the one responsible for protecting the fleet these last few years?

Wow. Just...wow. If you're talking about Baltar being the one responsible for it...okay, validity.

grrr

That's the chief distinction between a good show (which BSG has been, if only sporadically) and a great one. The Sopranos and Six Feet Under rarely took the easy way out and never provided neat plot twists for the sake of expediency, moral or narrative. BSG has done it time after time, and even some of the best episodes are marred by deus ex machina resolutions (the assassination of Adm. Cain being at the top of the list).

Maybe the bar has been set too high by HBO, but I can't help but be disappointed when characters behave more like marionettes than human beings.

Isn't that convenient? Four years after murdering billions of women and children, infirm and newborns alike, some of the cylons have second thoughts (coincidentally, after they're marked for death by the rest of their race). And the leader of the military, liberal institution that it is, has accepted their apology in return for retconned jump drive technology that somehow escaped mention prior to this season. "Incredible" doesn't begin to cover it.

Red Dog

I assumed it was simply to highlight Baltar's ascendency as a religious figure (just as people on death row today get to talk to a priest or whatever before execution).


That's what I hated. Take out that mass murder, and there is no clear right/wrong here, but by throwing that in, it makes the viewer automatically go back to the Old Man and Prez being "in the right."

Palaver

Maybe I phrased something poorly.

I'm saying it is somewhat unfitting that Baltar (a person who caused to near extinction of the human race) gets to walk around free while Gaeta (whom I considered a decent, yet misguided person) was shot as a traitor.

Grandmoph

I disagree with your assessment here. Its already been shown that the Cylons on the Rebel Baseship had "second thoughts" about the nuking of the colonies dating back to the New Caprica Occupation.

After the Cylon Civil War they are vulnerable and turn to the Colonials as temporary allies to recover the boxed 3. The Colonials aid the Rebels because it is in their best interest. They can either destroy a crippled Cylon baseship or get access to the boxed 3 (who will lead them to the final 4 and subsequently Earth) AND get to end Cylon Resurrection. Which makes the most sense?

After the recovery of the 3, the final 4 are revealed and the temporary alliance is out the window. Another mutually beneficial alliance is made between the acting President of the Colonies (not Military) and the Cylon leader in order to avoid the loss of human life. They go to Earth together.

They reach Earth, find it a wasteland. What now? The Rebel Cylons have no place to go, so they want to join the Colonial Fleet. They offer superior Cylon technology as an incentive. The superiority of their jump drive technology was established early on in the series - it was not retconned. Check out the episode Kobol's Last Gleaming, where Starbuck steals the captured Cylon Raider, so that she can jump back to Caprica and get the Arrow of Apollo. Quote from the Battlestar Wiki:

Adama accepts the proposal because Earth was a bust and they need to find a new home. The more efficient FTL technology will allow the fleet to jump farther and use less fuel, thereby increasing their chances of survival.

Every decision so far seems to be very pragmatic rather than "convenient." Both the Colonials and the Cylons made decisions that would increase their chances of survival. Also, keep in mind that the Colonials have not made peace with ALL Cylons, just one Rebel faction on one basestar.

Ayre

I watched this and the previous episode back to back. I had intended to have them help me get to sleep ... on the contrary, I ended up watching and enjoyed them both.

pinata242

Grandmoph

DarkestPhoenix

Damn, you're awesome.

Well-stated, and exactly so. This alliance is symbiotically beneficial to both factions.

andicus

Agreed!

davidh777

That would have been good to see, but it wasn't quite as cut-and-dried as that. Gaeta gave the execution order to the lieutenant, and we cut to see him accepting the order, but then we see he's at Tigh's gunpoint. That way had dramatic value too.

runner001

So how come no one has said anything about Starbuck? Is she a cylon too? Who/what was that in the crashed viper on Earth?

TGM

I thought Geita's second in command said something snarky to her.

Draven

She's not a Cylon (the "Five" have been revealed) and I'm sure it'll be explained.

chess

I haven't dropped by TV Talk much lately, as I really only watch BSG and Lost....but I've gotta say, this half of the season is off to a terrific start.

They still have some pretty serious questions to answer, particularly about Starbuck, but I'm pretty excited about where they are going and how ruthless they are about getting there. I especially loved the thing with Dee.

As an aside, I think shorter runs are better for this kind of show. Farscape had a good run, and I can still reasonably watch beginning to end over the course of a few weeks. Babylon 5 probably overstayed its welcome a bit (hated the fifth season). Even Firefly turned out OK in that I can have a palatable Firefly/Serenity marathon every now and again. I compare that to Buffy or Angel, which I own on DVD but will likely never watch again just because it's such a committment.

riley_dude

It has not been disclosed yet.