The writers and the network were upset with some of Charisma's behavior. Carpenter was basically written off the show. Her death on Angel was not planned until it became apparent they had to get her off the show. It's why certain plot points became so convoluted near the end of her run on the show. The powers that be simply decided the hassle of keeping her around wasn't worth it anymore.

I place it higher than 'Gone', 'All The Way', 'Wrecked' and 'As You Were.'

And I place season 6 higher than seasons 1 and 2.

Takes all kinds, I plumb reckon.

I think Doublemeat is reviled as a symbol of what was wrong with season six, not on its own lack of merit. By itself, it isn't a half bad episode. Viewed as a whole, it came at a time when the Buffy character was beaten down, only to be stuck working at a fast food joint. It's an easy target.

And by "behavior" you mean pregnancy.

That's what happened. Classic case of having to re-work a show's arc because of a cast member's pregnancy. Some ignore it and go for the 'so and so is on a leave of absence' trick, or like ANGEL, stick with it and see what happens.

Doublemeat was delightfully disgusting, and probably the funniest thing I've ever seen on Buffy.

Season 2 not as good as season 6. I must say that's quite interesting, but on one hand I get that - the show was dealing with a lot of different types of issues in its earlier seasons, and they weren't as serious as those dealt with as the show progressed.

On the other hand, 'Dark Willow', Warren and that pathetic little bastard Andrew, Spike and Buffy....eww.

Season 3 was my favorite. Who doesn't love Mayor Wilkins?

I loved how Wesley and Angel first met, because I hadn't seen any of Buffy when I began watching ANGEL as it aired on The WB, so their actual first meeting was interesting to me because it foreshadowed absolutely nothing whatsoever. It was so uneventful. To think of how their lives would be connected not even a full year later...

Sorry but to me, season 6 was a complete mess from the main story arc, the big bad, and the complete assassination of Buffy and Willow's charachters. However the worst of season 6 was Spike and how he took over the show. Although I enjoyed Spike as a charachter in the earlier seasons, by 6 & 7, I couldn't stand him. His charachter was so slimey and still to this day, I can't understand all those Buffy & Spike shippers and how they flooded usenet with the notion that B&S were soulmates.

I've always felt the quality of show dropped every season after the 3rd. Gone was the fun and excitement of the show, interesting villains, shocking moments & witty dialogue. IMO the wrong people were in charge for seasons 4 - 7. The people that should have been in charge went on to work on Angel which in hindsight was a good thing.

While having a pretty high number of great episodes (but the all-time worst episode ever (for me, anyway) with 'Killed By Death') and a wonderful arc, season two fails for me primarily because it's like a car that keeps stalling. Every time something exciting happened between Buffy and Angel, or Spike and Angelus, the show stopped so we could see Buffy beat up some fishboys or some lame Freddy Kruger impersonator (who can only be seen by sick adults and hides in a hospital ??!!) or a Bezoar who wants students to move some eggs around for it. Seasons 3-7 flowed smoothly and had a logical sense of pacing; 1 and 2 were a constant fight between extended season arcs and individual monster-of-the-week procedurals, and it's an extreme temptation to just skip certain episodes when watching the DVDs.

The standalones had nothing more than a throwaway line mentioning the overall arc, literally shoving it to the back burner. I completely understand how frustrating that is, especially when watching on DVD where it's back-to-back viewing.

Right now I'm sitting here, listening to a poor-quality mp3 of a song from the season 2 episode "Surprise". It's the song heard in the teaser during Buffy's dream. She's walking through The Bronze, and this song comes on, as Angel steps into frame. It's a lovely song written for the show called "Anything".

Anyway, I'm listening to that and realizing that it's been a decade since that all happened on television...Buffy premiered 11 years ago. Wow. I don't know what to think of that, really.

I agree with this completely. While season 1 and 2 may have had more monster of the week episodes, I'd rather have a decent MotW episode with some season arc progression than an episode where nothing really happens and is excused as a set-up for the next episode in the arc. That was the way I felt often during season 7 of Buffy and season 4 of Angel.

As for Double Meat Palace, I felt it would have been a brilliant episode if there had been nothing sinister going on at the restaurant, and it was all just Buffy's paranoia...

To be fair, they kinda did that in the next episode - just a bunch of humans committing manslaughter and attempted rape; normal run-of-the-mill non-demonic stuff - and they're able to play off Buffy's weakness of automatically assuming that it's demonic in nature. Have Jonathan cast a glamor and Buffy's willing to take the blame for everything.

There WAS paranoia in DMP, though; Buffy misinterpreted an insignificant demon going after happy meals with legs for some rampant conspiracy involving the entire corporation. That she misreads almost every threat in s6 is crucial to how she ends up (back in yet another grave fighting monsters irrelevant to the real threat while Xander's busy saving the world).

You don't want to ruin the metaphor by making it that there's NO threat out there after Buffy's resurrection; just that she's not really needed to handle it. You'd need something sinister at the restaurant in order to have someone who's NOT Buffy dealing with it.

The pregnancy was just one of many problems they had with Charisma Carpenter. It was not the main reason they let her go, there were other factors that led to her exit from Angel. She would have been perfectly content staying on Angel till the end of its run.

Season 6 was a mess and it wasn't the themes but they way they were executed. Joss has said in interview that people couldn't deal with the dark themes but that wasn't it at all, it was the way they were written.



This is the first I have heard anything about "Behavior." I heard she messed up the arc because she didn't advise the Producers she was pregnant but behavior????

Totally agree. There's nothing wrong with taking on darker themes but I felt the writers really betrayed the charachter of Buffy in season 6. I just stopped caring about her charachter. Of course, it didn't help the SMG lost her hotness factor to me after season 4, but that's another story. And then to make things worst in season 7, the writers go and write the redemption of the would be rapist. Sick.

Angel on the other hand also tackled darker themes in season 2 and onwards dealing with isolation and the rejection of the those around you (see Angel and Wesley). Difference is that the writers on Angel actually knew what they were doing and told a great story. That is why to this day I can see myself watching Angel season 1 -5 over again but would stop watching after season 3 on Buffy.

To this day, I maintain that the one thing I HATE about this series, is Buffy Summers herself. I watched the show initially to catch up on Angel, Cordelia and Wesley because I started watching when it premiered, but knew nothing about Buffy and what went on on that show leading into Angel's own show. I found that with the exception of Warren and Andrew in season 6, I liked pretty much all the primary and secondary characters on the show, so I watched it all the way through for everyone else instead of Buffy herself.

I only own seasons 1 to 3 of Buffy, and I used to own season 4, but let someone borrow it and I never bothered to ask for it back. I originally planned on buying season 5 and no intention of 6 or 7. Ultimately I didn't bother. Since I watched it for Angel and Co. anyway, I figured owning the first three seasons was just fine.

I've seen the entire Buffy series twice, but I can't count how many times I've watched ANGEL all the way through, because I'd have to count not only the first-run broadcasts on The WB, the repeats, and my old VHS recordings, but also the DVDs, which I've been revisiting yet again. I've just finished disc 1 of season 5.

I just noticed that this thread has been dominated by Canadians.
I guess we can't get enough of these shows, eh?
(I never actually use 'eh' in real life but it worked for here)

Was just in Best Buy and they had freebies of this festival. Didn't require any special purchase.
--Rick

I would like to make the same request for Season 7. That one had me glad the show was ending. Loved them all up to that point. I've always felt the hate for Season 6 was way too harsh.

I just added all buffy episodes and angel to my zune. While I was going over teh decription for each episode I truely had forgotten how much I LOVED these two show's. But now I have 12 years of tv to carry around with me plenty of time to catch up.

Thanks for the heads up on the best buy thing , I gotta try and find that and add it too.

Wasn't Season 5 the sucky one? (the one where Buffy's mom died and every single episode was a downer. Every. Single. Episode.) Or was that 6?

I feel the hate is too harsh for 6, too. Can't say I hated 7, though.

For me, Season 1 was good enough for me to continue watching, and then the rest of the series ruled.

Season 5 Buffy's mom was sick for most of the season but it didn't get really dark until after she died about 2/3 of the way through. It was definitely more somber than S4, which I remember as the most lighthearted of the show's run, but even when Joyce was sick the gang was hopeful.

Season 6 was the real downer season. Buffy is depressed and self destructive. Xander dumps Anya and she goes evil. Tara is killed and Willow goes evil. You would think Spike would have a smile after tapping Buffy, but she treats him like shit too.

Thing is, I don't equate dark or depressed with a poor story. I just found myself enjoying the new character development in Season 6. Season 7, on the other hand, seems to have no clear focus or direction (example: Giles), and so it was practically a chore for me to watch it.

ANGEL season 3 was depressing, season 4 was dark. Neither was because of a poor story so that is absolutely true.

If the story doesn't work, it doesn't work. For many, season 6 of Buffy didn't work.

The first time I ever heard someone call it "Season Sex"...that nailed it for me. The emphasis on freaky and constant Buffy/Spike sex and the terrible "magic is drugs" metaphor, well...I'd rather pretend the whole thing didn't happen.

Me too. The show officially ended for me with the end of season 5.

Best to last:

Season 6
Season 3
Season 2
Season 4
Season 5
Season 1
Season 7

I believe these were the same problems SMG had with the season.