no, i'm completely serious. The show that I saw didn't have 1 shred of infomation that I found useful. It was more of a "who are the people in the neighborhood" show versus a "here are the cool gay things to do in town" show.

And really, the show was about Amsterdam! That town is BUILT around sex. To not even touch on the issue is nuts. It's as if only gay eunichs travel to Amsterdam!

Well...*ahem*...if i may be honest, yeah I'd see that as being "important" to some people when they go but I'm really happy to see gay people being "normal" and celebrating their sexuality and yet, at the same time, not having it be a big deal. I don't want to see a show about bathhouses and sex clubs. Any asshole can pick up a book or figure that out on the internet. It was nice to see a side of the country that I hadn't seen before with a gay edge to it.

Pick up the recent EW and you'll see where they're going with the network. Personally, I'm pretty impressed wiht it. If they went all "Queer As Folk" with it, they'd lose me in 5 minutes. I hate all that shit and I'm sick of everything that people equate with gay is sex.

Again, see my above post. There's a difference between being a whore and being gay. They're two separate things that all too often meet in the middle as referenced by joeblows post.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I, on the other hand, am sick of networks portraying gay men as sexless (ala Will from Will & Grace). The Truth is, gay men have sex. Lots and lots of sex. I am not ashamed of that, and I really don't give a rats ass if straight people have a problem with it.

Like it or not, if a gay man is traveling to Amsterdam, chances are he will end up in a gay bar, bathhouse, or sex club. For this show to not even mention any of those would be like High Times magazine doing a travel show on amsterdam, and neglecting to mention it's legal to smoke pot there.

In your world. Not in everyone's. I don't understand this "standing up to straight people" mentality. You're fighting them by showing them how sexual you can be? bravo. you sure showed them.

And to be perfectly honest, *I* am gay and I have a problem with your outlook. I never use the word "***" because I think of it as the "n" word for gay people. However, I do reserve it for those who most definitely act like a stereotypical sex-obsessed selfish queeny gay man and will have no problem doing so. It's the faggots in the community that give gay people a bad name and if they'd stop acting like irresponsible uncontrollable children, we would have far fewer problems.

Well, I hope you aren't inferring that I am a "stereotypical sex-obsessed selfish queeny gay man" because you certainly don't know enough about me to make that gross over-generalization. Just because some of us don't fit into your stereotypical model of what a prim and proper gay man should be doesn't mean we are all irresponsible uncontrollable children.

Anyway, that's an argument for another thread. As far as logo is concerned, my view is, it can only get better from here!

That's a generalization. Sure there are those gay men that act responsible but look at all the Straight people that do to. Often media chooses to report that more often but it goes on it both worlds. In my world my friends are more like Will (but not sexless) than Jack but we know people that are "Queeny." That doesnt mean they are promiscuous.

Actually...from your statements you COMPLETELY are fitting the stereotype. I'm not talking about the way you look. I've seen you. I'm talking about what your interests are...from your own words.

It's very different. Unfortunately, we're a minority so what we do and whatever is promoted is how the public views us. So when you have Queer As Folk, people walking around 90% naked on pride and internet posters who only want to know about bathhouses when they go on vacation, it promotes that stereotype and it promotes it as absolute. Fortunately, it's not and I'm hoping that an even younger generation isn't of the menatality that sex is the beginning and end of being gay. UNfortunately, I know far too many people who do fit into the stereotype which is why I choose to hang out more with straight people. Yeah, straight people fuck up but at least they know how to do other things with their time than cruise locker rooms and bathhouses.
My friends would totally describe me as a will with a sexuality. Will and Grace fits my life more than Queer As Folk ever will. I find that lifestyle pathetic and empty and wouldn't want to surround myself with anyone who was involved in it. Waste your own life but don't drag me down with you.

Because I want to know about gay bars and bathhouses in Amsterdam? Look, if you want to go to Amsterdam and just tip-toe through the tulips, that's fine, go right ahead. Some of us are interested in more adult activities, especially those are aren't so much available where we live here in the US. If that makes me a sex-obsessed selfish gay queeny man, then so be it.

Adult activites? Bathhouses? I can go to one just a few blocks away from where I work. I wouldn't call that "right" an adult activity. Some of us have more interests in life than sex.

And I enjoy the way you mock any other option besides your own. Option A) seeing sights and enjoying the environment you're in or Option B) going to a bathhouse and having another night of random sex (just in another country).
It's your choice and if you choose B, then you go girl. 3 snaps. Whatever you want to do, have a good time. I'm just sick of gay men doing it as if it's the only option and TV/movies promoting it as it being the only lifestyle for gays.

Catfight!


jk digital.

Well, that's the difference between us, maybe? You already live in a sex-soaked city, so all this stuff is old hat to you. I, on the other hand, live in bumblefuck Minnesota. So, if I was going to visit Amsterdam, you better believe I'd check out the bathhouses. Does that mean I'd spend the entire weekend there in a sling getting gang banged by guys named Jorge? No. Geez...

digitalfreaknyc and joeblow69: You've both got chips on your shoulders. And who wouldn't? I often see common gay culture as limiting, shallow, sex-obsessed and unhealthy. At the same time, I have more love for the "sluts" of the world than I do for the "prudes," so I'm not about to join that chorus. I guess I fall in the grey zone between the two of you.

Clearly, there's a lot of people wanting a lot of different things from a national gay channel. The two of you want almost exclusively different things, for example. I hope it's successful enough to last.

I'd say I completely fall in the middle of that. I don't want people to be sexless but I don't want a ton of sex either. To be honest, I'd rather have little sex and more plot/comedy than too much sex and not much else. So therefore, I'm a huge fan of W&G and not at all a fan of QAF. Yeah, and I also love Queer Eye as well. I see both shows as being a positive influence on our image with the rest of the world AND with my getting along with other people. Comedy is the best way to reach people and change their minds. Aggression and intensity are not.
Don't get me wrong. I love sex. I've hooked up more than I care to think about. But I think more of it has to do with my wanting to "fit in" when I came out than my actually wanting or more importantly, needing it. I saw it as what gay men do. I didn't see them as having relationships, having fun, doing things together, being loyal, being sweet...and...being boring. Relationships were/are momentary and I don't want another generation to grow up with that being their only idea of what gay men are. They'll find sex on their own...which is why I'd rather have them watching W&G where people actually have long-lasting and loving relationships/friendships than QAF where they'll think that sex, clubbing and drugs are all there is to being gay.

I'd smoke up a storm, but I don't think I'd be brave enough for the bathhouses or sex clubs, however good for my psyche they'd probably be...

I'm just the opposite. I'd be way too chicken to check out the smoke shops! We should go to Amsterdam together! You can take me to get stoned, and I'll be your bathhouse buddy!

I'd smoke wayyy toooo much.
I'm hoping the travel show on Paris will give me some useful hints.
Gee, I wish that stuff was legal there.

It doesn't look like it was the cable company that took off VH1 Mega Hits. On my cable bill it states that "MTV Networks will no longer offer VH1 Mega Hits" and is putting Logo in its place.

Believe it or not...they are airing it in Birmingham, Alabama and I have yet to hear an outcry. I really don't think anyone knows what it is yet. I guess the religious nuts around here haven't heard about it yet.

I had no idea it was a gay channel until I read this thread but I haven't watched it yet either (I stick to my HD channels and rarely watch anything other than those). I read the descriptions of various programs on Logo but did not watch anything because none of them interested me...now I know why.

I usually keep up with entertainment news and have not heard a thing about this channel. I remember hearing long ago that Showtime was going to do a gay cable channel but I take it this is not it.

It will be interesting to see if the local press figures this out in the coming weeks.

Caught the GLAAD media awards tonight and thoroughly enjoyed them. Although they were edited, it was pretty tight and everyone had something pretty funny or interesting to say. Loved Alan Cummings acceptance speech.

My mom even watched it. good times.

I'm with you. I'd be at the "Special" coffee houses but not the bathhouses. I've gone a few gay cruises too. They're a blast. There are those that meet in the front of the ship at night to have a sex with unknown partners. That's fine. There are those that dance and party and maybe even a little kissing and have a blast (this would be me) and then there are those who just sit and watch the proceedings. There are different extreems to everything.

Always wanted to do a gay cruise. That would be sweet.

I Tivo'd them but haven't watched it yet. Very excited to check it out.

Or a gay resort. That too.

Definitely check them out.

Watched Fabulous Gay Marriage last night again. Wow. Those two were so amazingly in love with each other. Made me cry again. *sigh*

Just got a message on my cable box yesterday that we're getting Logo in the western suburbs of Chicago on 09/27!

digitalfreaknyc: I'm sorry this is late, but I just read the exchange from earlier in the month and feel compelled to comment. I'm pretty sure (although don't have actual numbers to back it up) that Will and/or Jack have had WAY more boyfriends (or hook-ups) than any character on QAF. The difference is that on W&G, you don't see the hook-ups and on QAF you do. It seems to me that it's a little something for every taste -- that doesn't make the characters on QAF bad stereotypes -- they're just a different kind of gay than what you would prefer to see on TV. The relationships on QAF are, IMO, far more three dimensional than the kind displayed on W&G. As a gay man, I'm happy to see almost ANY representation on TV!

Also, as a gay man, I really take issue with this statement:
It seems here as though you want everything to be like the religious right wants it what with controlling what's on TV and hiding all of those nasty "faggots". I am not by nature a "flag waver", but I do feel the gay community should be as diverse as it wants to be and for you, as a member of it, to want to pick and choose how people behave or represent themselves based on how you (or more likely, the straight people you hang with) feel things should be is unconscionable to me. Remember that it was a bunch of drag queens that started Stonewall, not "straight acting, no fems, fats or bears". Maybe I have a stereotypical view of what it would mean to live in New York as a gay man, but I just don't understand this attitude you seem to have that wants to deny the diversity of the gay community to fit into your dream world of everyone being white, smooth, young, pretty, good smelling, straight acting only wanting sex once a week. I guess my issue is how can you live in what some consider to be the greatest city in the world, filled with every kind of person and want everything in your life to be so vanilla?

It seems like you are fitting into the stereotype of the self-loathing gay man who, if it were possible, would take a pill to change his sexuality to straight. Please know that despite your viewpoint, there are other viewpoints just as valid of gay men who are proud to be gay and wouldn't have it any other way.