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The Angel Marathon Thread (companion to the Buffy marathon)

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Old 05-08-05 | 11:59 PM
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I know that someone had previously mentioned we shouldn't be talking about stuff from the fifth season, but I was rewatching the finale tonight (for the first time since the first time) &
Spoiler:
I started crying when Wesley died. I know that sounds like a typical chick thing to do, but I rarely ever cry over movies, let alone tv.
Old 05-10-05 | 11:56 AM
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From: Wolfram and Hart - LA Branch
Emma, im wiv u there,
Spoiler:
was very emotional indeed, same with Fred's death...dayum


Sessa:You're gonna love this show it rocked, and I am proud to own all 5 seasons on dvd

x

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Old 05-10-05 | 04:31 PM
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On a lighter note.

Since I don't think anyone's mentioned it to Sessa I wanted to let him know that Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia) posed for Playboy. Here's links to some photos. Sorry I can't find the published ones.

Unpublished photos
http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=4478

at a Playboy Party
http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=4857
Old 05-10-05 | 11:28 PM
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SCHWING!
Old 05-15-05 | 07:13 PM
  #205  
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Nice, after over a month since I've checked into this thread to return & find nudie pics awaiting me. Good job. And believe me I bought that issue when it first came out. I've always though Charisma was hot.

Much to the delight of some of you, I started Angel again last night. But this place just doesn't feel the same as my Buffy thread

So without further delay, the reviews in all their grammatically incorrect glory are back.

"Judgement" - Not a great opener but I wasn't really expecting much. First off though, you have no idea how thrilled I am that this is now in widescreen, really makes it a lot more fun to watch & I have a 56 inch HDTV, & I've been watching most of Buffy on an old TV. I would have enjoyed Buffy a lot more if it was widescreen. I didn't like Angel at first in Buffy b/c he just seemed like the token hot guy for the ladies, so its cool that he really isn't portrayed like that on Angel. I really like that the show always pokes fun of him & he really is kind of just a big dork. But aside from the lighthearted moments, I kind of thought this one stunk. The main plot made no sense to me. I didn't get why the pregnant chick was being judged, the tribunal just popping up & the joust in the street was just so dumb. Looks like Gunn joined the cast. Kind of indifferent to that, he isn't annoying but he is pretty boring so far, & his name is corny. Cordelia looked really hot in the top she was wearing the whole ep.

"Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" - Right now, this is my least favorite ep of the series. I hope nothing important was hinted at, b/c I didn't pay that much attention to this one. I'm not saying this was a bad ep, the way the Buffy stinkers were, it just bored me. The gang made the hotel their new headquaters, which sure seems big for just 3 people, 4 if Gunn is working for them. Angel seemed to be good in the flashback or at least have a consience, he protected the girl, was drinking blood out of a bottle, so I guess he didn't want to kill & I thought that up until the turning point w/ Buffy, which was over 40 years later, he was still Angelus, a stone cold monster.
Old 05-15-05 | 07:40 PM
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Angel got his soul back about 100 years before he met Buffy, but he didn't go around being a hero until he saw her.

I'm surprised you didn't make any mention of Faith's appearance in the season opener.
Old 05-15-05 | 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sessa17
Angel seemed to be good in the flashback or at least have a consience, he protected the girl, was drinking blood out of a bottle, so I guess he didn't want to kill & I thought that up until the turning point w/ Buffy, which was over 40 years later, he was still Angelus, a stone cold monster.
I'm not sure what gave you the idea that Buffy had anything to do with Angel being non-evil. The cause of that - the gypsies who cursed him to give him a soul - was explained way back in season 1 of Buffy, and several times since IIRC.

I'm tempted to try and watch along with you in this thread. My viewing of Angel has been fairly scattershot. I've seen season 1, the beginning of season 2, season 5 and little else, which means I'm in roughly the right place.
Old 05-15-05 | 08:04 PM
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i just filled the cup.
Old 05-15-05 | 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sharbhund
I'm surprised you didn't make any mention of Faith's appearance in the season opener.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot. That was cool, I wasn't expecting to see her until S4. It was a reminder that I made the right move watching all of Buffy first though. I don't feel, like I had anything spoiler for me doing that, & it will be nice now seeing cameos (hopefully) & mentions of Buffy. The Faith thing didn't seem like it was going to be an on-going thing, it seemed more of just tying up a loose end from last season. Hope I'm wrong though.
Old 05-15-05 | 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sessa17
I really like that the show always pokes fun of him & he really is kind of just a big dork.
I think outside of the deep series encompasing stories, this is my favorite aspect of the show. There are moments in every season that I could just watch over adn over and over and over. Dorky!Angel is the best.
Old 05-15-05 | 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by boredsilly
I think outside of the deep series encompasing stories, this is my favorite aspect of the show. There are moments in every season that I could just watch over adn over and over and over. Dorky!Angel is the best.
...especially true in S5 when he gets to play opposite a wonderfully written
Spoiler:
Spike
.
Old 05-15-05 | 11:03 PM
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One in tonight. . .

"First Impressions" - Not a bad ep. This one is pretty much just to flesh out Gunn's character. Gunn's not bad, I dig that he has taken it upon himself to protect his hood. I just wish they would lay off writing him as the token angry black. With the "I haven't watched a movie since Denzel was robbed for Malcom X" & the societal rants, I feel like they are just writing him to say all the stereotypical things. A stupid complaint: Cord has her vision in her apartment & then drives Angel's car to Gunn's place. But Angel came out of the hotel shocked that his car was stolen. So did Cord walk all the way to the hotel & then steal Angel's car? And how about Cord, this once prissy clueless girl being stronger in a fight than Xander ever was. She just dived right into 3 different fights in this ep & didn't get her ass kicked in any of them. She slayed a vamp, knocked one in the head, kicked one in the undead balls, & saved Gunn from Deevak (who sounded exactly like Adam), and she became all wise & sage like in the end with Gunn. The Darla stuff really reminded me of all "The First" visions in Buffy. Was that actually her in bed with Angel in the end? And the rich dorky guy is back from season one, I forgot his name. I guess they are trying to expand the cast a bit.
Old 05-15-05 | 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sessa17
Not a bad ep. This one is pretty much just to flesh out Gunn's character. Gunn's not bad, I dig that he has taken it upon himself to protect his hood. I just wish they would lay off writing him as the token angry black. With the "I haven't watched a movie since Denzel was robbed for Malcom X" & the societal rants, I feel like they are just writing him to say all the stereotypical things.
They did show Gunn as the angry black man to start out, but Gunn (like so few minority characters on shows) really turns out to be just another prime player (a good one at that) on the show, than say "that black guy on Angel". I always thought that was cool. Though he does throw out one of those lines every now and again (more tongue and cheek than serious though).
Old 05-16-05 | 01:22 AM
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Wow Sessa...i thought Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been was easily one of the best episodes up until that point. The horse duel in Judgement was pretty dumb though. I'll give you that.
Old 05-16-05 | 01:27 AM
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I love it when Angel sings Barry Manilow
Old 05-16-05 | 08:23 AM
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Not Fade Away-Series Finale (my thoughts) **Spoilers**

Hiyall, I finally was able to finish season 5 on dvd since I missed out when it originally aired on tv and I wanted to chime in here about my thoughts about the final episode (not sure where else to go)...and if Joss Whedon is reading this (sincerely hope he does) a reply would be much appreciated.
Spoiler:
The series finale IMHO did what the show's creators (Whedon & co.) wanted it to do-complete the story arcs to a satisfying finish. Despite the ending looking like a cliffhanger, I agree with Jeffrey Bell (episode commentary) that the show should end showing our heroes fighting the good fight not really mattering if they won or lose because that was what the entire series was all about-it wasn't the prize at the end of the struggle that mattered but the struggle itself and the determination to keep on fighting evil in all its forms that mattered the most.
The scene with
Spoiler:
Wes dying in Illyria's arms,
though heartbreaking to watch, is definitely one of my favorites in this episode. If you've been watching the series since its inception, then you'all should be aware that the Wes/Fred story arc started way back in season 2--from the first moment Wes laid eyes on Fred he had fallen for her. But, Wes's infatuation which later grew into love would from time to time be held back from ever developing by some clever writing by Whedon & Co.--it makes for some great drama and keeps the characters of Fred and Wes more interesting to watch. Whedon apparently had the impression in his mind that once Fred & Wes ever got together, it would totally get boring. I agree to some extent (e.g. Lois & Clark New Adventures) but as a storyteller, you gotta give what the fans were hungry for--to see the once-shy clumsy-turned dark brooding Wes finally get to be with the girl of his dreams Fred (lets not start with the whole Lilah gig-that was IMO just a phase for Wes even though he did develop "feelings" for Lilah, underneath it all, Wes was still in love with Fred). Whedon & Co. finally gave the fans what we've been hammering for in season 5 (why'd take so long???)
Spoiler:
Wes & Fred finally confessing their love for eachother, but unfortunately their love was shortlived due to a stroke of genius writing by Whedon & Co. who decided to shake things up by turning Fred into a demigod demon Illyria which meant killing Fred (see A Hole In The World-another terrific episode and one of my faves). Thus, the Wes/Fred love arc finally finds its end in the series finale with Wes dying in Illyria's arms. Illyria, expressing a little humanity, asks Wes "Would you like me to lie to you now?" Wes responds with dying breath "Yes please" and Illyria physically morphs into Fred who then comforts Wes in his last moments that he will finally be with her(Fred) forever (in heaven I assume).

What else can I say? I was totally heartbroken just watching this scene alone--it was the same feeling when I watched Oz say goodbye to Willow in BtVS season 4's "Wild at Heart", both scenes just drove me to tears. Maybe its got something to do with seeing beautiful ladies crying their heart out that 's my weakness or something.
Spoiler:
Amy Acker & Alexis Denisof acted superbly in this scene-they both conveyed the raw emotional intensity of the moment so well I couldn't help crying myself.

Despite the great acting and terrific writing of this episode, I still am disappointed with Whedon & Co. for going this direction with Wes' character. I understand that writing any epic climactic battle especially one taking place in the finale of a series would certainly have more drama/emotional resonance if it involved tragedy or loss on the part of the protagonists, but
Spoiler:
killing Wes
wouldn't have been my choice. I would've chosen Gunn-
Spoiler:
his character going out in a blaze of glory killing the senator and then getting overrun by the vampire minions from left and right would make for a more glorious death. Wes should've survived the fight with the red demon
--afterall he is one of the principal main characters (after Doyle left) of the series since the beginning. Besides, I like to believe that
Spoiler:
if Wes had survived,
it would be more interesting to see stories involving him and Illyria trying to find her place in the world and possibly discover her humanity. Its been done before e.g. Star Trek Voyager's borg member Seven rediscovering her humanity over an expanse of 3 seasons even to the point of falling in love. What do you think Mr. Whedon??
Spoiler:
Death in the Whedon's universe is not a universal constant. Spike is obliterated while destroying the hellmouth in BtVS and is magically resurrected in Angel season 5. Buffy sacrifices herself leaping off a platform to save the world in season 5 only to come back from the dead in season 6. Angel gets skewered with a sword by Buffy and is thrust into a hell dimension at the end of BtVS season 2 but returns intact and whole in BtVS season 3.
Get the point yet or should I also mention about our favorite pointy-eared Vulcan Spock's death and resurrection in the Star Trek movies? It CAN be done--
Spoiler:
Wes can come back,
its just a matter of creative imagination and clever writing which Whedon & Co. has truckloads of. Please, Mr. Whedon,
Spoiler:
bring Wes back, he deserves to live again,
he deserves to be with Illyria, Illyria needs him back whether she knows it or not. Trust me when I say, if there were ever a season 6 for Angel and
Spoiler:
Wes somehow did come back,
it would definitely make for some very interesting stories especially with Illyria being a half-powered demigod demon and all. And just in case Mr. Whedon is reading this, I offer the following as possible scenarios:
Spoiler:
Scenario 1: Just before Wes breathes his last breath, Illyria somehow manages to capture Wes' soul essence and absorbs it into herself. Illyria thinks she can hold on to Wes' soul long enough to perform a certain ritual that will physically bring him back (ala Star Trek 3: Search for Spock). But bringing him back will be the hard part-Wes may not be the same Wes as we remember him.
Scenario 2: Illyria not having her temporal powers anymore saves Wes by opening a portal to her demon dimension where she searches and eventually finds a shaman(her realm is not entirely dead as we were originally lead to believe) to whom Illyria entrusts Wes' body. Illyria believes the shaman has the healing power to bring back Wes but not without some minor side effects: it will only work with demons not humans. Wes is thus revived but only through the infusion of demon DNA into his body which turns him into a demon halfbreed. All these events take place not in real time which is why Illyria is able to meet up with Angel in the raining alley moments after she leaves the red demon's house. But Illyria's statement "Wes is dead" could be interpreted as her way of not revealing the whole truth to Angel about what she did with Wes(we never did see what happened to Wes' body in the final episode).
Scenario 3: The Great Powers To Be manage to step in just moments before Wes' last breath to steal his soul because they believe Wes plays an integral role in some great prophecy about the end of the world and Angel. But in order to restore Wes back to his normal body, Angel and co. must venture into the realm of darkness to retrieve Wes' soul. To accomplish this, Angel enlists the help of Willow. While Willow performs her magics to help Angel in his adventure to find Wes' soul in the dark realm, they come upon the soul of Fred. Willow then believes she can restore both Wes and Fred but not without Illyria's consent because to bring back Fred means Illyria must die.

So what do ya think Mr. Whedon? Will we see an Angel miniseries (HBO), tv movie anytime soon (maybe after you get frustrated with the politics of the Great Hollywood moviemaking machine)??? I would certainly pay to see an Angel movie.
Anybody else has thoughts about the final episode?

Last edited by Jadzia; 05-16-05 at 09:06 AM.
Old 05-16-05 | 08:27 AM
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Kid, you seriously need to spoilerize that like yesterday.
Old 05-16-05 | 08:45 AM
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kid samurai, please either put spoiler tags in your post or delete it.
Old 05-16-05 | 08:58 AM
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Kid, thanks for the spoiler tags, but I think you might need to tag the entire thing. Sessa, for the love of God, please don't read any of his post at all if you can avoid it.
Old 05-16-05 | 09:45 AM
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Thanks Jadzia. That was a train wreck!
Old 05-16-05 | 01:24 PM
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...especially true in S5 when he gets to play opposite a wonderfully written
Spoiler:
Spike



Wonderfully written? He became a bafoon.

kid samaurai... I think it would be safe to assume Joss does not read these boards.
Old 05-16-05 | 01:30 PM
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From: NJ, the place where smiles go to die
I would greatly appreciate it, that if anyone wants to discuss other seasons ahead of where I am at, especially something like the last season, that they do a search & just add to a thread related to that season or event.

I don't want to discourage anyone from posting, but it is a little annoying when I finally am back to start my watching & discuss the show in the order I watch it, & then someone just starts posting about the end of the series. When the thread is at the beginning of season 2.

And yeah, I think it is safe to say that Joss is not reading this thread.

Last edited by Sessa17; 05-16-05 at 01:40 PM.
Old 05-16-05 | 01:35 PM
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Alright, I admit it. I'm Joss Whedon.
Old 05-16-05 | 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by riley_dude
...Wonderfully written? He became a bafoon.
He was wicked funny, but was not by any stretch of the imagination a buffoon. Was early Xander a buffoon? How about Oz?

It seems that Buffy brings out the melodrama in everybody, but like Angel, he reverted to form. And the chemistry between him and Angel is terrific (always was).

I'm tempted to spoilerize some of this, but Sessa has already made it clear that he knows that this character shows up on Angel, so I don't think there's a need to bother.

That's all I'll say about S5 for now in deference to Sessa's above request.
Old 05-16-05 | 03:45 PM
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...and if Joss Whedon ever wants to come over, my mom makes a great pizza every Friday

Last edited by vader1014; 05-16-05 at 03:50 PM.


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