Figures, a showing finally comes to Houston and I don't have to work the following morning(what's with the 10PM start time anyway?), and the damn thing's sold out.

Damn! I missed out on tickets because I was talking to my car mechanic. So not only do I end up having to pay for repairs, I miss out on something that would've made it go down easier. Argh! Shoot me now. I have to learn how to multitask better.

Unfortunately, since all the cities started selling tickets at different times (some days in advance, some right around midnight last night, others after 11am this morning) I stayed up all night anxiously awaiting Tampa to go on sale. After 11am when it still didn't happen I was so frickin' tired (and supposed to at work in 4 hours) that I gave up and went to sleep. I wake up at 2pm and it's sold out. So for all the effort I put in last night, I'm still missing out. Gah!

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled topic . . .

L8r

ETA: Actually, I found tickets for Miami, so even though it's a 4 hour drive, I managed to buy two tickets so I guess I'm going! Woo hoo!

Tickets must have sold out REALLY fast for the NY/NJ show I wanted, so I was pretty bummed, but as much as I love Firefly lets not turn this into a Serenity/ticket thread. Although it is too bad these sell out so fast, & there aren't a lot of you guys in my area, it would be a cool event to all meet up at.

Now getting back on topic. . .

"Provider" - Another pretty good one, I thought this one was a lot of fun. Liked everything except for the Angel sub-plot. They must have gotten a new fight choreographer for this ep b/c the fights were very different, a whole lot more Asian/kung-fu influence. But the fights have always been my least favorite part of both shows, I do think that comes from watching the series so condensed like this though. I'm trying really hard to shut my brain down w/ the money stuff. They need money so bad, yet they own a freakin' huge hotel, have an expensive computer, wear VERY expensive clothes, especially Cord & Angel, his leather jacket is like a $1500 jacket. And have been able to furnish the hotel. But, the focus on money was fun. And when did Lorne start working for Angel? Angel called him one of his "top employees". Fred is now officially my favorite character on the show & I think my favorite Buffy-verse chick. I do like Anya more when she was with Xander, but b/c they ruined her character so much I give Fred the nod. The Wes/Gunn/Fred thing, I'm not too sure I like it, it just seems very out of character, especially for Gunn, this thing just seemed to come from out of nowhere. I did think it was a little lame that Angel is having all of these unknown demon/monsters in his hotel that he has no idea what their motives & intentions are while he has his son who he is SO paranoid about. I also don't know how Holtz was also able to go out & buy an extremely expensive new jacket, but I know, I shouldn't be thinking about stuff like that. I can't help it.

After the whole Buffy and Angel true love thing I thought it was a portrayal to fans who wanted them to be together to suddenly have Angel and Cordie hook up. It just didnt make sense.

What exactly do you consider taking a risk?

Damn, i live in West Palm Beach and totally missed the Miami Serenity selling time. You wouldn't want to get rid of that other ticket, would you?

See I'm one of the few who never bought into Angel/Buffy. It just never worked for me and I think a lot of that had to go with how Angel/Buffy was played. Too romance novely for my tastes. Longing looks, full body hugs, all that Diane Steele bullish. He essentially fell in love with her while stalking her. That is just weird.

However the Cordelia/Angel relationship just fealt a lot more natural to me. They were friends first. They fought side by side, saved each other from death, cared for each other (as the whole crew on Angel seems to) before lust was a major proponent in their relationship...it had a flow that the Buffy/Angel destined love stuff never had IMHO. Take away all the magic, demons, and fantasy and put an Angel and Cordelia into a firehouse or partner them up in the army or police force and that relationship could happen the same way.

Sessa you're a trip man, but I understand that gripe. He could be like Duncan from Highland and just sell of some ancient priceless heirloom and call it a day. I think it was more of a cheap and fun way to show Angel as the concerned in over his head new father.

Since you seemed to miss it the last time I posted this, please DO NOT turn this thread into a Firefly ticket discussion, there already is a thread for that. Especially a post like this one, just email the guy.

In a way the shows do (OMWF) but at the same time they do follow very concrete molds. For instance to this date, I have never felt a worry or suspense for any of the original characters of either show b/c there has been nothing at all to show that the shows would kill an original core character (& no Darla does not count) & both shows are really kind of the same thing every single ep, it's why I like Pylea so much, it was the very first time they did something so different. I think I meant more that the show isn't going to do anything shocking like kill Lorne so brutally like the ending to that one ep.

Dude, we are so eye to eye on this. You explained it EXACTLY how I feel on both Angel/Buffy, & Angel/Cord. If you read the Buffy thread, you know I hated that romance & never bought it at all, I still don't see why Angel would fall for her & don't think they gave enough reason why. But I do see why a Cord/Angel romance would make sense. Just what you said they started as friends, & over time Cord has grown & changed complely in a very tough, almost warrior & this entire transformation was by Angel's side. And Angel has watched this transformation & just from being around her every day can see she embodies all of the positive attributes he loves about the human race.

About the cost of the hotel, that was mentioned back in season 2 ("First Impressions" - Angel asked about how to buy the hotel without actually spending anything) Then there was Gavin's attempt to buy it, but Lilah provided Angel with documents preventing that somewhat ("Carpe Noctem")

The Hotel was already furnished.

They already had the computer, and as for Angel's expensive wardrobe, it's television!

He's always had expensive clothes. Think about it. Unless that "Whistler" guy paid for everything, how could Angel go from homeless in New York to a small apartment with a large collection of historical items (and of course, the clothes - far more 'expensive' looking than on his own show) and then a big mansion (which he likely obtained by eating the realtor)?

It's right up there with the eternal question, "How do vampires shave?"

Doyle counts. He was an original core character (plus he was a popular and loved character). He was killed off before the halfway mark of the first season. That is quite a risk IMO.

I agree: Doyle counts. And Joyce died, but you could see that coming a mile away. And hey, Buffy died twice! Three times if you count "Nightmares." And they essentially killed Willow in early S6, but that's a rant for another thread.

I just don't get the desire to kill off core regulars. The purpose of the core regulars is to ground the series, to provide the foundation for what appeals to us. If they went off killing a core character every season or two, a lot of what drew people to the series in the first place may be killed off as well. So yeah, the cores are safe (usually) and why shouldn't they be? There are plenty of supporting characters at risk (Jenny Calendar, Tara, Jonathan, Darla, etc.). And it's more interesting to see characters suffer than to just outright die. You can't milk a death, but you can milk prolonged suffering. On a show like this, you need the core characters. They are what make the show. This isn't CSI or L&O where all the leads are interchangeable. The crimes provide the foundations for those shows. The characters and their plight provide the foundation for Whedonverse series.

L8r

I used ponder what the show would be like if Doyle never left- how he would fit in with characters like Gunn and Fred, and the overall storylines as they existed.

At the time, I really hated that Doyle was offed. Even after Wesley first arrived I kept praying he'd come back. I didn't want some pompous Brit ruining this show!

I don't think they could have taken Doyle to the depths they took Wesley, however, so in the end, it was a trade up. I still miss Doyle on occasion, but I'm glad he's dead (the character, not the actor).

L8r

Well, I couldn't stand Doyle. I thought he was boring & just your token wise ass brought in for your one-liners. I am really glad he died early on.

"Waiting in the Wings" - I forgot Joss even had anything to do with this show. I guess he thought he had a good idea w/ this one & came back for it. First let me get the rant out of the way. I HATE HATE HATE, Gunn & Fred together. Me that is the point, so if it is I guess it works. I don't hate it b/c I don't like Gunn or Fred, I like them both, I hate it b/c it has come out of the blue & there is absolutely zero chemistry b/w Gunn/Fred. Up until 2 eps ago, they haven't even interacted or had any scenes together. And I said at the beginning of this season I wanted Wes & Fred to get together. I also didn't like the ending b/c I really don't like the Gruselag, he reminds of something out of one of those cheezy shows like Beastmaster or Xena. Aside from plot wise I get why they did it, but wouldn't it have made more sense to have Gunn babysit when he didn't want to go at all to the ballet & take Lorne who lives for that sort of thing. Also, couldn't shut my brain off & thought it was a lititle too much that in this day of media & critics that nobody realizes a world famous ballet has had the same performers for over 100 years.

Now I know you all are groaning b/c all I did was criticize & I probably hated the ep. But there was stuff I liked. I thought there were a lot of great lines this, "I saw their production of Giselle in 1890. I cried like a baby. And I was evil", especially the childish smile & face Angel had at the end of that line. And I really liked Wed in this one. And I also wanted Angel/Cord to get together. Like I've posted, there romance makes a lot more sense to me than the Buffy/Angel romance did.

Don't forget the first appearance (I think) of a Firefly actor in a Wheedon show -- the lead ballerina was played by the actress who plays River.

Man, thanks. I was watching literally thinking "damn, that actress looks familiar".

That doesn't negate the fact that he was, at the time, a core character. I'm really having a hard time thinking of a character driven show where the core characters aren't safe. It just seems like something that is standard for shows.

I know you were fearing rebuttals for this, but a lot of people don't like the Gunn/Fred relationship. I think you nailed it on the head with the zero chemistry thing. I do understand why they did it, and the actors try their best, and it goes to interesting places eventually, but everytime they make cutesy faces at each other....

I actually like Gunn/Fred, I thought they were cute.

Regarding Sessa's comment about forgetting that Joss Whedon had anything to do with this show- even the WB made special mention whenever he was involved with an episode.

It was always something like "An all-new ANGEL: Written and Directed by Joss Whedon".

I pretty much agree with this.

But not this.

I never grooved to Cangel. Sorry, I'm an old school Buffy/Angel dude. I liked Riley okay, but I hated Buffy with Spike. Angel shouldn't be involved with anyone period (he still has that pesky curse, remember?), so any pairing with him is going to seem wrong to me.

Wes and Fred are a better fit than Fred and Gunn. I think they just did the latter because it wasn't expected, but sadly the actors didn't have the chemistry to pull it off. It did add a layer of pain to our man Wes, so I guess it was good in that regard.

This is the only Joss episode I didn't groove to. It's not horrible on the surface, but it introduces a lot of questionable material and is truly the source of some problems I have with this season, namely Cangel and Frunn. AtS has never been about 'ships, unlike BtVS which thrived on them. To me, this was an unnecessary layer of stupidity added to the series.

I really like this season, but these relationships and this episode in particular knocks it down a few points, IMO.

L8r

I didn't hate the whole Gunn/Fred relationship though I do agree that it just came out of nowhere. I am a fan of the Angel/Cordy relationship so I was happy to see that go somewhere albeit spell induced.