Presumably, the recording of Talia would have something to do with her being a sleeper.

Either to use as a weapon against her, or to restore her original/benign personality.

Talia was to have picked up Lyta's original arc, but when Andrea Thompson left the show, that arc went back to Lyta.

I could see Kosh maybe taking Evil Talia to the Vorlon homeworld for some "adjustments" much like what he ended up doing with Lyta.

Some but not all. It was good to *at least* be told what generally happened with the Drahk (i.e. human intervention at Centauri prime, presumably during Londo's death scene). But I still feel like a big part of this big "5 season arc" is simply missing.

I would like to have seen S5 go down a lot differently...opening with the 5 episode fall of Centauri Prime, then a confrontation with the Psi-corps, then leaving B5, and finally, a finale with Londo, G'Kar, and Sheridan dying...and Garabaldi redeeming himself at the 11th hour through self sacrifice. *That* would have made for a fitting end to the series AND a hell of a season.

Granted, that's just what I was expecting, which is not to say it's what should have been done. If I knew anything, I'd probably be writing something myself. Still, it just didn't feel like we came full circle.

However, it was a hell of a ride, and like I said, S4 is probably my favorite season of television EVER.

Like I said, my low expectations came from the fact that I thought it was *just* a vehicle for the spinoff series...a "pilot" if you will. I was expecting what happened at the end to happen at the beginning, then Sheridan to make a cameo and give a ship to a bunch of stereotypes...exposition...exposition...yadda yadda yadda

Instead, it was all about Sheridan and his journey to try and stop the Drahk, which was a pretty good story in its own right as long as you choose to ignore the whole plague thing.

Why should so many characters die?

Sheridan made his sacrifice already by basically dying at Z'Ha'Dum. If he was going to die on the show for some reason, it would have been there - he would have stayed dead. His sacrifice is his losing many years of his life in the process -that's his price.

Londo is intended as a tragic character. His enslavement was foreshadowed and laid out in previous episodes, to sacrifice his life to save Sheridan on Centauri, and to bear this burden of enslavement for his people. Much worse than death. His end has been shown already.

As far as Garibaldi, you do not redeem yourself from alchoholism by dying for a cause. That would probably be easier for an alcoholic, since they are pretty much self-destructive. This would mean nothing. Maybe it would make up for his mistakes to others, but it wouldn't redeem himself. The point is admitting the problem and working to solve it. Self-redemption is what Garibaldi needs here, and giving up his life would do nothing to redeem himself.

I obviously didn't express what I had in my head very well.

Garabaldi is the only addition, and it just seemed appropriate given his vision in Babylon Squared.

I meant that it should show him save his son (who would oddly look a lot like Lennier), then go back to Minbar and die of "natural" causes just as he did in the actual finale. It would have been pretty close to the 20 year point, and Lorien was fairly wishy washy about the EXACT time.

I get all that. I just think it would have been good to show the events leading up to his death...and Sheridan/Delenn's escape from Centauri. The end of the episode in my head would have been very much like the end of the actual finale.

I disagree. After blowing it a few times in his role as alliance security dude and contributing to the start of the Centauri Prime war...I think he had plenty of redemption to others to take care of. But again, the main purpose would have been to fulfill his vision on Babylon Squared...though I guess the vision of him was no different than the vision of Ivanova on the exploding B5...one possible future.

My other reason was that I didn't like what became of Garabaldi. He basically married money and then acted like he earned it. He essentially changed from one type of asshole to another.

Bottom line: This story NEEDS to be a TNT movie, in the vein of In the Beginning, that I can plug in between Call to Arms and Sleeping in Light.

I'd preorder the DVD sight unseen.

Like I said, if you're really dying to know what happened, read the books

Well, I think JMS made the point that of all the characters at the beginning of SiL, it's fundamentally ironic that Garibaldi is the one with no turmoil or change. Considering everything he went through, it's fitting that he's the one who has the best life -- wife, kid, rich, the whole thing.

As for Draal, I was told between season 1 & 2 by someone who would be in a position to know (sorry, gotta protect his anonymity) that the Voice two parter was not something JMS really planned from the beginning. It was a response to a request by the British station broadcasting B5, who wanted a big two parter during the end of season 1.

As for the Kosh/Talia scene, I've no doubt that if Thompson had stayed for the whole series, it would have come back into play.

I think a movie (or a mini-series) taking place between Call to Arms and Sleeping in Light is a great idea.

It would fill out a lot of story and character resolutions - they already have a lot of the stories in the books - they could just sort of adapt those. Also, the actors are all the right age for something in that time line.

Watched River of Souls last night.

I had a good chuckle at the new captain saying "shoot me, shoot me now" (a Daffy Duck line) when Garabaldi leaves...other than that, I can't really think of anything nice to say.

at all.

Bummer that this had to be my last new episode.

Yeah, River of Souls pretty much sucked.

Agreed that River of Souls kinda sucked. Along with The Gathering, Thirdspace and The Legend of the Rangers (not out on DVD). The only B5 movies I really enjoyed were A Call to Arms and especially In the Beginning.

Are you planning to watch Crusade? I don't recall if you are planning that or not.

I thought Thirdspace was pretty decent, and the Gathering was fine for a pilot, but River of Souls was just brutal.

I think I'm gonna pass on Crusade. I get the impression that it's one of those things that sort of weakens the mystique of its predecessor. Sort of like Voyager was to Next Generation...particularly in regards to the borg.

I'm fairly satisfied that things are resolved, other than feeling that G'Kar and Londo got shortchanged in the end...and I doubt Crusade will help much with that.

On the other hand, if I stumble across a dirt cheap copy somewhere or if I have an opportunity to borrow it (which in my circle of friends is possible)....who knows.

For the time being, stick a fork in me, I'm done...and am leaving very impressed and not feeling at all like I wasted my time or money.

Thanks to all for your guidance and support...for your reassurance when needed...for keeping up and giving feedback...for lurking...and most of all for not spoiling anything. One last thanks to Bando for being a cool mofo.

I'm out.

OK, so I finished Farscape (cant tell you how damn much I loved that show) and Ive started B5...Im reading this thread and following along with how chess enjoyed the episodes after I watch them, so I have the strange task of reading the thread in the middle while posting at the end.

I saw the pilot and disk 1 and 2 of S1 and all I have to say is


Im really watching just because I trust the people on this board. Farscape had hooked me by the 8th episode, and the only mildly interesting B5 ep so far was #8 'A sky full of stars'...I can see how this is all setup for the future, but damn...compared to Farscape, the FX sucks, the acting is bland, the aliens are goofy....holy shit farscape was good!

So Ill check in ever once in a while...im watching on an accelerated schedule, hoping to get to the good shit sooner.

Another problem is my constant comparison to Farscape...the Virtual Reality in A sky full of stars reminded me of teh far more interesting interplay of Harvey and John, or John and Einstein

You're right, a lot of it is setting stuff up, and a lot of it is just standalone episodes that are helping to establish the various aspects of the universe. The main storyline-based stuff starts happening during the second half of the season.

Well, yeah... Farscape started about five years after B5, so it's no big surprise that the effects on B5 aren't as good. Not only that, but B5 was also the first show to really go all out CG for it's effects, instead of using models and stuff. That said, the effects make a pretty dramatic improvement in the second season onward, but don't expect them to come close to what you'll see in a show five years older.

Again, it gets better near the end of the first season. Some characters take a little longer to get better than others (Ivanova especiallY), but there is some improvement soon.

It's a different approach, mostly. Instead of going all out weird with various puppets like Farscape, the alien design is, for the most part, a little more conservative. A big part of the show deals more with how the alien races deal with each other politically instead of just revelling in how "alien" they are.

Since you gave me a push in my Farscape thread, I'll give you a push in this one.

Don't stop watching. The classic answer: there's a point in the second season, where you'll know if you're with the show or not. Keep watching until you reach that point.

OK, finished S1, and Babylon Squared and Chrysalis were excelent episodes that really ramped up the action and gave the story a sense of direction and pacing

One problem was that I had heard so much about Bab Squared, that there was no SHOCK in the episode, because I was expecting something big

Then S2 starts, and ...now if I didnt trust the people here, I WOULD HAVE thought that this was a cast dispute or a ratings stunt, but I believe that this will pull all back together.

Now through 7 episodes of S2, the show is really starting to fill out...EVERY episode contains clues to teh mystery or at least advances the larger plot...the aliens are past the 'look how wierd aliens can be' phase and have assumed the role of pieces in a larger game...1.5 seasons (almost) and you still have so little of Kosh that your screaming for more....the production quality has vastly improved, the acting is better, the characters deeper, the polt thicker, and a real sence of impending doom is sweeping over the show.

Im very interested, and Im banging out 3 four episode Netflix disks a week

We really need a "rubbing hands together" smiley.

The standard response for B5 would be HHH (for "heh-heh-heh").

That can take the place of a smilie.

This pays off later though. What episode it is though, I dont remember.
Anyone else?

I don't really think that's a spoiler, but I'm always overly cautious in B5 threads.

Another person starting Babylon 5 based on the glowing reviews you all give.

I'll be honest, I'm only 3 or 4 episodes into it, and it's not even remotely close to hooking me. I will give it the full season due to the acclaim it gets here, but I can't imagine what happens to make it go from so bad (imo of course) to so great.

I can get past the special effects (it's dated, but I'm sure was great for it's time), and I can get past all the "set-up" episodes which are a necessary evil of any universe building series.....but the acting....man, the acting. It's bad. I mean really, really, really bad. Do the actors take a class in the middle of the season or something to make them get better?

For point of reference, I love ST:TNG, DS9, Buffy, all the other fanboy type of shows that most of the people who seem to like B5 also like. And I dig JMS' comic stuff, so I'm at least a bit familiar with him.

No claims on the secondary bit-part actors. Like happens with Buffy from time to time, the bit-part people aren't the greatest. The primary actors do just fine. G'kar and Londo end up as the best performances I've seen on a TV show IMO. Some of the other great performances are from people that aren't on the show yet - Bester (Walter Koenig) for example.

Did you like Angel? Because although I'm not a RABID fan of Buffy, it ranks in my top 10, and Angel became my #2 favorite show - it's all about the story arcs and character development