You don't have to make a list - just go to the Lurker's Guide and go to the "Reference" section. There is a list of all of the episodes, and the titles of the "Wham" episodes (those that advance the overall storyline more than usual) are highlighted. DO NOT go to this section before you've finished the entire series, as a brief summary of each episode is also included.

Your thoughts on season 5 echo my own. I can't wait to see your reaction to the series finale.

I never saw that before!

Here it is. I'll add the titles for the last few episodes after chess watches them.

+ the last four of Season 5

I'll bet I can trim that down a bit.

Incidentally, I forgot to mention that it was cool to see that guy who played Ethan Raynes on Buffy. I recall him playing a Minbari a bit back, so it was kind of distracting trying to recall which one while I was watching, but it was good to see him again nonetheless.

I was bored one day and entered all the episodes and P5 ratings into Excel. Then I graphed all the seasons to get a visual of the episode ratings. I've thrown it up on my site if anyone is interested in checking it out.

B5 Stats

If any B5 fans around here have a few hundred (or thousand!!) dollars of spending money lying around, you may be interested to know that JMS is eBaying a bunch of memorabilia related to his work that he's had lying around in boxes...

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZbabylon5auctions

The stuff isn't going cheap, though. A set of Londo and G'Kar dolls that were specifically made as props for the episode "There All The Honor Lies" went for $7200+!

Other notable items are an EarthForce captain's uniform that JMS had made for himself (and has only been worn once), various scripts from certain episodes, and Sinclair's Battle of the Line medal from The Gathering.

There's even more stuff to come, too.

Agreed. Let the season wind down the way it is supposed to by finishing it out. Then go back to see the movies.

The B5 stuff - I've been looking at that since JMS mentioned it on the newsgroup. Sooooooooooooooo droolworthy. I'd be lucky to scrape up $100 at this moment, no chance in getting any of this stuff. But it's cool to look at.

Chess- when you rewatch, you will be suprised. Hints and foreshadows that you missed first time around, little things here and there. Especially the first couple of seasons.

Wow, that's...obsessive.

Finished S5 tonight.

I need to let it all soak in before I post my thoughts though.

Well, one thought...

At first I was disappointed that they didn't show the stuff on Centauri Prime with Londo and Vir showed up as emperor, but after giving it some thought it occurs to me that they had **ALREADY** shown a great deal of it. I like that they just skip ahead for a proper send off and take for granted that all that went down. It was a nice curve ball, because I was totally expecting the final episode to be about that.

For the first time, I completely bought Sheridan and Delenn. Wow.

More tomorrow when I've had time to think.

Well, if you're interested in the details of Londo's situation, there's always the books, but I'll go into those once you've given your thoughts on the rest of the season.

Wheel of Fire

Sort of a Lyta-centric episode. Sadly, I didn't feel like I ever got anything even remotely resembling a payoff for all that Byron crap. I also have no clue after finishing the season how the whole telepath thing works out. And would Lyta really leave the rest of the telepaths to fend for themselves? I don't know, I guess I just felt the whole telepath thing was handled badly in general.

Garabaldi is found out and suspended...but Lise is there to help. This little sidestory has already sort of been done with Franklin...even though they set Garabaldi up for a binge from season one.

G'Kar is interesting in this episode, but nothing else really jumped out at me.

Objects in Motion

Two assasination attempts at the same ceremony...only on B5.

So Garabaldi is married and leaving, and G'Kar and Lyta are...well, doing something and leaving.

The Garabaldi bit with the board of directors was pretty good...reminded me of the similar scene in Dogma.

At this point, I was coming to the realization that this show was going to go out with a whimper rather than a bang...though I still had high hopes for the finale.

Objects at Rest

The departure of Delenn and Sheridan and an ensemble piece for the new crew...this was a really good episode, and in many ways, felt like a finale.

We also see Londo for the last time setting up the events that we've only seen bits and pieces of thus far. Now *that* is a TNT movie waiting to happen, I daresay. Londo's final moments were great, but the impact of them was lost on me because I really thought I'd see him in the next episode.

The Lennier thing was absurdly out of character. I didn't think he'd be Delenn's lapdog forever, but he's not a murderer. Bah!

Sleeping in Light

Tremendous episode, but only partly what I'd hoped for.

I thought the show would come full circle back to the Londo/watcher thing, so I was just a bit...I don't think dissapointed is the word...but I was definitely wondering about the details of what went down. I guess I was expecting the Londo/G'Kar thing to play out on screen and then Sheridan to go off and die after saving his son in a climax.

Instead, the episode was an overly reverent living funeral, and everybody got a happy ending. When I saw Vir wearing the emperor's crest and I knew for certain that Londo and G'Kar weren't going to appear in the finale, I've gotta say that I was just a bit bummed.

For the record, I didn't cry during the finale. That's not the sort of thing that gets to me, but I do know good drama when I see it, and that was really really good drama. I probably got more misty during some of the big battlefield confrontations...like Delenn bringing the Minbari fleet out of hyperspace to save B5 from the EA. Those epic last minute saves from impossible odds get me every time.

Oddly Ivanova now felt out of place...though her being there made perfect sense.

General Thoughts

Most of the things I loved about this show were absent in these last few episodes. There was nothing really epic after the fall of Centauri Prime, Londo and G'Kar were either shortchanged or were absent, and we had to spend time wrapping up the pointless Lyta arc. Also, based on the portents, I thought Garabaldi or Ivanova were going to die in the end...sacrificing themselves as somebody should do in a finale.

It would have also been nice if we had spent some of that Fabio time fleshing out the Drahk and how they are presumably defeated at some point. Instead, I'm left wondering. I guess when Londo dies, that's the end of it.

S5 was pretty disappointing overall with the exception of a really strong middle section...the 4-5 episodes leading up to the fall of Centauri prime. I think S4 was my favorite season because it was so epic and focused, followed closely by S3 which had great mystery and some amazing moments. S2 was very good as well. I think S5 was probably better than S1, but by just a bit.

In the end, I'd say that the period from about midway through S2 through the end of S4 is some of the best sci-fi I've seen on TV...possibly *the* best, though I think Farscape might still get the nod based on consistancy and better acting.

I hope it isn't too much of a spoiler to say: some of your concerns/questions will be addressed in the last movie you'll be watching shortly.

No it's not...and now I'm sort of wishing I'd watched it. River of Souls, I assume?

No, "A Call to Arms". "River" is pretty throwaway, it doesn't continue any important storylines. It's very much like "Thirdspace" in that way.

Also, the plot lines that you mentioned are more or less directly addressed in some of the novels that came out. While there are quite a few B5 novels out there, only a select few are considered canon. These are (the basic premise of each is spoilered out, just in case you wanted to go in blind)...

To Dream in the City of Sorrows:

The Shadow Within:

Dark Genesis, Deadly Relations, Final Reckoning:

The Long Night of Centauri Prime, Armies of Light and Dark, Out of the Darkness:

EDIT: Whoops, almost forgot, there's another book trilogy that's out called Passing of the Technomages, but I haven't read that one yet, so I couldn't tell you what it's about, or if it's any good. However, it's usually included into the "canon B5 novels" list.

My first draft of a list for future viewing. I added a few and removed a few from the Lurker list posted above.

I may still make a few changes: I'm tempted to remove Bester entirely since the telepath payoff was so weak, and I'm tempted to remove the Minbari civil war stuff. Finally, and I know you'll all be up in arms about this...I was pondering how much the removal of Babylon Squared and the two part War Without End would really hurt the overall arc.

...I guess not.

Obsessive? The data is out there on the Lurker's Guide. Probably less than an hour of data entry. As for the rest, I wanted to learn some new Excel skills. I had no idea how to create graphs and thought it would be an interesting way to blow a boring afternoon. It was.

Anyway, it is my favorite show.

Those marathon lists look about right. If you really need to get into the main story quickly, you can cut Season 1 down to 3: Signs & Portents, Babylon Squared, and Chrysalis. I'd also say that Mind War is probably more important than Voice 1 & 2 as it starts off the whole Psi Corps arc. It's not like they really ever used Draal to any advantage in the rest of the series.

I never quite understood that. Introduce a powerful ally and then never put him to good use? I can't believe JMS just forgot about him.

I too was puzzled by the fact the Draal was only asked to help once, and that was so Sheridan could project a holographic image of himself to make an announcement.

I have a feeling that Draal, in the first season, was there to set up something important in the future that was later changed when O'Hare/Sinclair left the series, and thus was never used.

Early in the series, JMS had said that the final scene of the series would blow everyone's minds, and that, as proof, he wrote it down on a piece of paper, sealed it in an envelope, and hid it away until the series ended.

That envelope was never heard from again.

(I suppose we could start a Babylon 5 Archaeology thread, where we tried to piece together the original, Sinclair-centric arc. I've picked up a few rather interesting tidbits over the years; and it's also really easy to see how certain things were being set up within the series itself -- particularly the first season -- that were never used or later changed.)

The Draal thing has been covered on the Lurker's Guide here and there.

Keep in mind that it's not like he never came into play, either...


- Ivanova's use of the Great Machine allowed them to find the First Ones at Sigma 957, and uncover concrete proof that Clark had a hand in the assasination of President Santiago.

- Sheridan used the Great Machine to project the holographic image to the station in Severed Dreams.

- They used the GM to take Babylon 4 back in time.

- Ivanova used the GM as a power source for the Voice of the Resistance broadcasts.

Personally, I'm glad that it didn't come into more use. If they called on Draal to solve every little problem, it would have gotten a bit old.

I know Draal was used here and there, I just always hoping to see a big Shadow attack on the station and the GM blowing up Shadow vessels left and right.

I skipped River of Souls and went straight to...

A Call to Arms

I had pretty low expectations for this one thinking that it was just an intro to Crusade and not much else. Instead, it was a pretty good little movie if you can just ignore the whole "plague" thing in the last couple of minutes. The technomage angle was a nice thing to get back to, but more importantly, it shed a bit (just a bit) of light on the whole Drahk story, which was sorely needed in S5 and would have been a perfect replacement for all that Byron crap.

It was also nice to see the "Candyman". I don't know the actor's name, but I've always liked him for his intensity. The girl from the theif guild was a bit on the cliche side, but I can get past that.

Basically, I thought it was all pretty well done.

Does JMS have a King Arthur thing or what? He's had the "Holy Grail" guy, King Arthur himself, a "round table" in the war room, and the prototype ship "Excalibur" so far.

Now having seen it, does it address some of your previous concerns enough?

The thing that's always bugged me is from Deathwalker in Season 1. What's up with the scene where Kosh uses Abbut to record Talia's thoughts. To be more specific, "Reflection. Surprise. Terror. For the future." So when was this ever used? This is one show where if you see something that doesn't make sense, it's almost always explained later. But as far as I can tell, this story was never touched on again.

I'm not sure why you had low expectations. I'd rate this one right behind In the Beginning. Then comes River of Souls and Thirdspace. Not sure which I like better. The Gathering is by far my least favorite.