I just took my roommate through the first four seasons over the past few months. We haven't gotten to S5, since neither of us has the money to get it yet.

After seeing the entire series at least four times through, it was good to see the show again through the eyes of a n00b. It was really hard to answer some of his questions that would divulge major plot points. His favorite character early on was Talia, and in looking for pictures of her on the net, he found out her fate early on.

Just saw Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind a few days ago. I would love to erase all my memory of Babylon 5, just so I could watch it all again with a blank slate and fresh mind.

Chess when you get to season 5, let us know which intro theme you like best. My favorite is S3, then closely followed by S4, then S5, S2, S1. There's something really ominous about that music in seasons 3 and 4. Love it. And I know that people advised you to not watch the extras because of spoilers.... however there is one very neat extra on Season 4 disc 6 that you can watch after you're done with season 4 that won't have spoilers. I forgot the exact name of it, but it's basically a compilation summary of season 4, like a music video. And after watching season 4, that video makes a pretty big impression.

About Vir's morden-on-a-pike thing:
I always kind of figured that Londo hears most everything that is going on. His life revolves around conspiracies, backstabbing and political manuevering, so I suspect he has informants keeping him in the loop...or, maybe Vir or an onlooker told him about it.

3 today...

The Illusion of Truth

A theme episode. Have we jumped the shark here?

I think we get that ISN is broadcasting propaganda, so the episode just feels like filler. I can't really even say that this one had its moments other than a 30 second Londo bit about his air conditioning.

Clarke has installed a McCarthist congress of some sort, and they are blackballing and torturing hollywood. I like to think that Republicans would be extinct in 250 years, but I suppose not.

Pretty weak stuff.

Not really sure what to make of Garabaldi. He's obviously been programmed, but the change is mostly pretty subtle. And you'd think if someone were going to program him, they'd keep him in his job as security chief.

Atonement

Loved the bit with G'Kar and his eye.

Delenn starting the war was an interesting twist. I generally like backstory episodes, like those on Buffy and Angel, and this is no exception. So if Delenn and Sheridan have kids, Sinclair will be their great great great..........grandfather. This is better than Springer!

Overall, a very good episode. Still not buying the romance though.

Racing Mars

So we finally go to Mars and meet the guys from Total Recall. I like the change of scenery, and it certainly opens up some new possibilities. The real point of this episode though was to give us a bit more info about the "keepers". They're Ok, I guess, but certainly nowhere near as interesting as the Shadows or Vorlons.

Marcus and Franklin have pretty good chemistry. Not Londo/G'Kar good, but at least entertaining.

Garabaldi has really gone dark. I'd say he has a keeper, but I'm pretty sure we saw him shirtless when he got back. I suppose it's still psi corps.

Other than that, all I have to say is "Woo Hoo?"

Based on what I've read here, after S4.

Technically, while it did air after S4, you can watch it any time after the episode Atonement, which you just got through. You probably will want to watch it after S4, though, as the rest of the season keeps a pretty solid story going with no really obvious places to take a break.

Well, there's a few possibilities. Perhaps Morden mentioned it to him in order to try and get him to fire Vir or something, or perhaps putting somebody's head on a pike is common amongst the Centauri. The way Vir said it made it seem like it was pretty common.

The thing is, the whole Shadow thing has been being built up since halfway into the first season. While Into The Fire did seem like it would have been a season ender, it's not like the stuff with the Shadows was rushed overall, it's just that you probably weren't expecting it to end as early as it did, which was part of the reason JMS wrote it that way.

There are certain events that get pushed ahead due to the threat of cancellation, but supposedly the end of the Shadow War wasn't one of them.

Well, as far as Garabaldi goes... I'll once again say "don't worry"

I always liked the earth stuff, mainly because it was such a change from how Trek handled Earth as being the shining jewel of a planet that could do no wrong.

I'm not going to say anything either way, but keep in mind that in WWE, Londo mentioned that the keeper can only be seen if it is asleep, or chooses to be seen.

Sorry you didn't like that ep. I always thought it was a pretty good one, if a bit heavy-handed. You pretty much knew that the ISN people were going to screw them over (some of Sheridan's comments in the interview were pretty obviously going to be twisted), but it was neat to see exactly how much the B5 people got nailed. I always think back to this episode whenever I see a Dateline or something similar.

I wasn't too wrapped around the axle about it since it was a pretty good payoff. I just couldn't help but wonder.

For what it's worth, my comments were partly meant as a compliment. That was a *big* episode for the 7th episode of the season, and it apparently put a lot of new things on the table. It's just that my two favorite parts of the show (Shadows/Vorlons and Centauri/Narn) both wrapped up and none of the other arcs (at the time) were nearly as interesting.

OK.

I said pretty much exactly the same thing somewhere earlier in this thread. It was definately a good change of pace...I guess I just felt that it was clumsily executed...at least early on.

Hmmmm....good info. I guess I should be reading that Lurker's Guide.

I just thought it could have been handled in a much more succinct manner with short bits across several episodes...but I guess it was setting up the "resistance network" that I'll post about later. Plus it looked a little bit too much like Fox News praising all things Bush, which probably creeped me out a bit at the time. Maybe when I see it my second time through (and there WILL be a second time through) I'll appreciate it more.

Lines of Communication

A quick payoff for the Fox News episode. They are turning the war room into a news studio. As far as plotlines go, I kind of like it.

Delenn's meeting with the Drahk was good and the subsequent fight was great. Her reaction to one of the White Stars being taken out was eerily similar to how the Minbari/Earth war started, but she seemed justified this time. I found it somewhat hard to believe that the other Minbari dude would trust the Drahk like he did. They didn't look terribly trustworthy to me. I had to turn on the subtitles for a bit just to understand the Drahk emissary, which was somewhat bothersome.

edit to add...they were ready to roast some marshmallows on the bridge of that ship. That's twice we've seen 7 foot (assuming he was standing) flames surrounding some dude on the bridge of a ship.

Dude, your bridge is on fire.
It's cool, I can chat.
No, dude...YOUR...BRIDGE...IS...ON...FIRE!



Listening to Franklin talk about Sheridan at the Mars meeting has me thinking that Garabaldi might just be on to something...

Conflicts of Interest

A Garabaldi episode. He was pretty hard on Zack wasn't he? The guy was just doing his job and Garabaldi had to be expecting it. Of course that presumption is based on Garabaldi being rational, which doesn't seem to be the case, necessarily.

I'm not terribly interested in Garabaldi's old flame, but it looks like we'll be getting deeper into that plotline. I *am* glad we're going back to Mars though. I was a bit disappointed that Franklin and Marcus made it back to B5 so fast. It seems like their departure from Mars could have been much more interesting.

I like the Zathras character. When I first saw him on B squared, I wasn't so sure, but I'm now officially amused. The Ivanova and Franklin scene in the "studio" was pretty good too.

quibble

Nothing but cameos from Londo and G'Kar lately. The show seems to have gotten very human/Minbari-centric...to its detriment. I *want* to know how the rebuilding/revenge thing is going on Narn and whether G'Kar can convince them that the Centauri aren't worth it. I *want* to know what's going on with the "keeper" on Centauri Prime. Instead, I'm getting a "who's sleeping with whom" type of show.

There are still enough good sci-fi elements to keep it interesting, but it could be better.

Based on past performance, I'll give JMS the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure he knows where he's going with this...

FYI for any interested parties...

JMS posted in his moderated newsgroup, saying he has boxes and boxes of stuff, a lot of it B5 stuff, that he finally needs to part with some of it. He will be keeping 75% of it but he will weed out 25% on Ebay in the next few weeks. The ebay userId is something like babylon5auctions

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17317

The post is safe to read (but I wouldn't peruse the site much).

Well, as that one Minbari said, the Religious caste has been having their share of problems with the Warriors, so it's not unusual for somebody to try and go to an outside source for help. While the Minbari would like for everybody to think that they're better than that, they're far from perfect.

He does, and all you will find out all you want to know...

Good night last night...

Rumors, Bargains and Lies

I'm not sure what they were going for with Sheridan on this one, but I found him plain creepy. His ego is just collossal these days. Even worse, he doesn't seem to trust his brothers in arms with basic information about what they are doing. I understand more and more what Garabaldi is feeling.

Civil war on Minbari was a good setup for the next episode...

Moments of Transition

Good episode based on the strength of the Delenn story. I really liked the way the Minbari civil war played out....plenty of tension and a good payoff.

I guess Sheridan is ready to throw down with Earth.

No Surrender, No Retreat

This episode kicked ass in just about every way imaginable. The Londo/G'kar semi-reconciliation story was awesome...just awesome. The battle was epic and the way they handled the moral dilemma was tight.

I know you guys are big fans of the B5 music, but honestly, this episode is the first time the music jumped out at me. It was really effective at setting the mood for this one.

The Exercise of Vital Powers

A Garabaldi episode complete with film noir voiceover. Cute.

This episode was one of those episodes that is clearly setting up several big story elements (Sinclair and the telepaths in cryo) but it wasn't terribly compelling on its own.

I will say that the argument to be patient with Clarke made sense on some level, but at the end of the day, people are dying and something has to be done. I just like that JMS makes the "bad" guy's argument make sense. Their internal logic is flawed, but hell, they could be right.

No Surrender, No Retreat is one of my favorite episodes. Sheridan is really walking a fine line, he can't just destroy the Earth ships even though his White Star fleet could certainly do it. He needs to convince as many Earth ships as he can to join him. And the whole Londo/G'Kar story is the best part of this show. It boggles the mind to think where these two characters were when the show started, and how far they've come. And it's not over yet...

It's tough to choose my favorite B5 episode, but I would have to say Endgame (coming up for you soon Chess) had the most "wow" and jaw-drop factor for me. Absolutely hair-raising episode.

Remember at the beginning of the show? G'kar is trying to buy a direct mating with Lyta to get telepaths (in the pilot I think?) and basically out for blood vengence against the Centauri. Londo is a bumbling nobody, a buffon, a drunk, and a compulsive gambler.

The characters that actually CHANGE are a big strength of the show. Like I've heard about ST:TNG....how does Riker change by the end? He grows a goatee? Or Worf? Or Picard? Yes they change a little. But CHANGE? They are still intrinsically the same person as at the beginning. This is how most TV shows work. This is where B5 is different. Londo and G'kar are my favorite story, and that's why. They change, evolve, grow. They make mistakes, and learn from them (or sometimes they don't learn right away, even better), the process changes them.

The other thing I like about B5: no reset button, and as a result, the good guys don't always win (look at the episode about the plague that kills off that whole race). Doctor develops cure....too late. No magic reset button, things are back to the way they started. Or at least, rarely, does B5 do this.

I like to joke about the reset button on other shows when we watch them. My favorite joke. "RESET BUTTON!" (roll end credits)

Finished S4 last night...mostly good stuff.

The Face of the Enemy

Garabaldi sells Sheridan out...and Bester is behind it. They had set it up to look that way, but I was figuring on a twist. Still, nothing wrong with narrative consistancy.

My only beef with this episode is that Sheridan was really really foolhearty TWICE, and he's usually a pretty level headed guy.

Overall, a very solid episode.

Intersections in Real Time

A filler episode in a season where the writers seem to be in a hurry to get somewhere?

Sheridan is being tortured. Yeah, well no shit.

Between the Darkness and the Light

After a brief pause, we're back to business...

I liked this one. Garabaldi redeems himself and saves the Captain, Londo and G'Kar are working together, Ivanova takes command and is mortally wounded in a great space combat sequence, and Sheridan gets ready for the final assault on Mars and Earth commanding the Agamemnon.

What's not to like?

Endgame

The ascention of the ordinary man.

Yeah, um, this episode kicked ass on just about every level. That is all.

Rising Star

Nice resolution. Am I to assume that B5 is independent now, like Mars, or is it still earth property? Hopefully Ivanova doesn't really leave.

The Deconstruction of Falling Stars

[comic book guy]Worst. Season. Finale. Ever.[/comic book guy]

I have no idea what they were going for here other than a few very vague and very unsurprising hints about the future. Did they KNOW at this point that they had a fifth season? I ask, because I was thinking maybe it was the only way they could think of to wrap up the whole psi-corps thing.

I sort of enjoyed the "future vorlon" angle, since I sort of suspected it. And the Garabaldi hologram was pretty funny, but otherwise, this episode was just dreadful.

Thank goodness this wasn't the series finale...especially since the cast was barely in it.

Is it time to watch "In the beginning" now?

Originally, JMS didn't believe a fifth season was going to happen. He wrote and filmed a series finale. But, TNT stepped in at the 11th hour and picked up the show. The finale was shelved and this fourth season episode was put together. It's interesting in many ways, but not all that great. The true series finale is where it belongs....at the end.

As to your final question, I'd say "yes".

Just wanted to add that I agree with you guys.

Seasons 3 and 4 of B5 are certainly some of the best sci-fi I've seen on TV.

I'll call it a tie with Farscape for now, but the comparison isn't really fair. It's like comparing Indiana Jones (Farscape) with Blade Runner (B5). Hopefully that makes sense.

B5 S1-4 has a solid story arc with narrative consistency throughout the seasons, philisophical and historical depth, amazing space combat sequences, characters that grow and change, and terrific acting from several characters. I've really enjoyed it.

Hopefully the drop off in S5 isn't too bad...and hopefully the movies are good.

While S5 is a bit of a drop (and does contain my least favorite episode of the series, sadly enough), it isn't so much that it's bad on its own, it's just that it just can't measure up to the first four seasons.

The movies, well... In The Beginning is by far the best one. From what I remember, Thirdspace is ok, but is pretty much completely self-contained. There's no real connection to the rest of the series as far as I can remember. A Call To Arms does continue the story from the series a little bit, and was a set-up for the short-lived spin-off series, but again, it didn't really click with me.

Never did see River of Souls, either.

For my money, I found that some of the various novels do a LOT better job of fleshing out the various storylines, mainly because they mainly take place away from B5 itself, and instead go into the various side stories.

Of course, if you watch "A Call to Arms", you sorta want to continue the story by watching Crusade as well. Guess it's another boxset for chess to buy.

I really liked Intersections in Real Time. Instead of rescuing Sheridan and saying "oh no, he was tortured" we get to see some of what he went through. Sure, it wasn't necessary to advance the plot, but it does flesh out Sheridan even more.

As for the movies, In the Beginning is by far the best. I liked A Call to Arms, but I still haven't finished Crusade (the spin-off series) as I can't really get into it. Maybe after I finish re-watching this series I'll give it another try.

River of Souls is a waste of time, IMO. I hated it. I simply couldn't belive Martin Sheen as a Soul Hunter.

Well, you finally got to see exactly why Bester did what he did. Also, I always loved that even though Bester is painted as the "bad guy", what Edgars was doing wasn't all that great either, and all things considered, Bester's work averted what would have been a pretty horrible act.


Did this episode even mention the Psi-Corps? I don't even remember them being mentioned in any of the footage sections or anything...

It does mention telepaths. Some plot points:

- With Sheridan's permission, a colony of telepaths will be established on Babylon 5 sometime in 2262. Eventually they will turn against him.

- Garibaldi will be held hostage, possibly by the telepaths, in 2262. The hostage situation will end in gunfire.

I would never in my wildest dreams think of this as a filler episode. It was definitely one of my favorites of season 4.

Don't get me wrong. It was well acted and written, but it's one you could skip entirely and not miss a single thing in regards to the main story.

The closest thing it has to a purpose, that I can see, is to give extra weight to Sheridan's religious persona (dragging the cross, so to speak) and to further vilify the Clarke government...to make it more "personal".

I didn't dislike the episode per se, it just didn't move things along at a time I really wanted them moved along. This is possibly a downside of watching them marathon style, but I'd probably have been more disappointed had a waited a week to see this one.

The "gray" areas of this show add a bit of depth and realism that I appreciate. It's not always about "good" and "bad", but about varying philosophies about good and bad...and varying degrees of good and bad.

What Bando said.

I was just thinking that if they knew they were cancelled, maybe they put together a future retrospective to show how things played out. Apparently, that wasn't the case. I guess when they made "deconstructing", Turner (he's crazy, but bless him) had already bailed them out.