It wasn't explained. That's what is so irritating about this show. The very first show they make sure to point out that Ben is wearing broken chains. I don't think there was a single reference to it again until they showed the wanted poster. What episode was that anyway, 8 or 9? Ben said he killed someone, but never said who, why or how. The most info we got on that was from Management who said that he's had to make the choice before of taking a life.

Just got done watching the season finale - and I have to say this is the most infuriating series I've seen this year. On the one side it was intriguing enough, and kept me coming back every week but after watching a 'season', I'm starting feel like the writers are just making it up as they go. I still have no idea what the 'Brother Justin' part of the story has to do with the 'Carnivale' - its like one big overblown subplot. And then the cliffhanger - like we don't have enough unexplained loose ends on this show. I don't expect neat answers every week since this is a on-going drama but I expect at least each season (whatever the length) to have some kind of comprehensive arc.

Sorry for the rant if you're a fan. I like some of the actors and I really wanted to like the show but oh well..

• Quoth kenny79 •<HR SIZE=1>I was absolutely awestruck by this one.<HR SIZE=1>

Agreed. It seems we're in the minority, though. No worries ... I've been there before. People usually come around anyway.

Masterful choice of music with Zimmer's "Journey to the Line." Especially with John Savage. Odd that it wasn't mentioned in the credits, though.

das

It seems fairly clear to me that Ben's murder rap is something relating to his power. A save that went wrong or some mistakenly applied use of the gift that cost someone nearby their life. Kind of like what the M.C. Duncan character was up for in The Green Mile.

I love this show, and I want more.

Although I wished that they would have made the series a one shot deal, but I thought they did a good of setting up the show for season 2. I look at it this way, that we have finished book 1 of a series and now comes the infuriating wait for book 2 to come.

I believe I read somewhere that Justin and Ben were never supposed to meet until season 2.

I second the opinion that the murder Ben committed had something to do with his "power" of bringing something back to life. It came as no genuine shock to Ben when he learned several episodes in that to bring someone back he had to take someone away. (Lodz is definitely dead - especially when his eyes went back to cloudy and the snake lady came back.)

This show was interesting, but it lacked everything except character development. I felt there was not as much packed in as I did with season 1 of The Sopranos or Six Feet Under. I just am not entralled with the storylines.

BTW the point about The Sopranos having loose ends is ridiculous... life doesn't usually tie up every storyline nicely.

Goldang it. We agree again, monkey boy. Cut. It. Out. [a la Out of Control]

I thought it was the best episode of the series and I thought there was enough resolutions, enough questions to be added to the pile and a nice cliff hanger to boot. David Lynch would be very proud.

Now should I be ashamed that I am looking more forward to season 2 of Carnivale then I am to season 5 of The Sopranos?

I gotta say this: Paramount's Trek Powers That Be made a huge mistake when they favored Berman and Braga over Ron Moore.

I believe the first epsiode he was trying to save his mother from dyingbut she wanted nothing to do with it

Thumbs down from me. After wading through this season I was expecting some form of payoff, but the finale didn't do it for me. When this show returns in 2 yrs? I won't be following it

I love this show.

Any hope of a DVD set?

I'm betting that Sophie lives. Lodz is dead, and Appy is the "equivalent" to Lodz, meaning that they both had more or less equal information and knowledge, although that varied a bit. Sophie may turn out to be "evil". After that setup thing she did, it's quite possible, and there's the product of a rape thing, and Appy was seemingly afraid of her turning out bad as well.

And don't forget that Mr. Gimp Leg ran in there and didn't come out before the credits rolled. I'm betting he saves Sophie and Appy dies. Then Sophie gets more mystical powers during the next season, as she gets older, sort of thing. She's started having visions of the future on her own, remember.

There's kind of paralellism going on, in fact. Justin is, at heart, a good guy who forced to go to the side of bad, because of his sister. This happens more than a couple times. Ben is getting the same kind of thing, being forced to make a bad choice in order to do good things. Only Justin is probably getting turned to the side of bad, and Ben's not. I'm thinking that there's paralells between Sophie's relationship to Ben and Justin's relationship to his sister that will be drawn up further in the next season. Not that I think Sophie and Ben are related, I mean it in terms of good/evil sort of thing.

The lack of any explanation or understanding of Management is pissing me off. Ben's lack of curiousity is doing the same thing. When he and the midget guy were talking and Ben was telling him about the dreams, Management got brought into the conversation, and Ben didn't ask the exceedingly obvious "Who or what the hell is Management anyway?" ARGH.

Other than nobody really acts the way normal human beings would act in similar situations, it's a good series. Wish they'd tried harder on the season finale though. It was disappointing overall.

I have mixed feelings, but mostly think it was an excellent show. Still think it's a very good series, but the season finale would have made a good mid-season show. The word that it will not return until 2005 is not good, though I suppose there will be a lot of promotion and then a replaying of the first season just before that.

I enjoy a Lynchian mystery, but I also feel like we keep getting more questions in this series than we are getting answers to the older questions. At some point, people question the worth of not knowing. Not everyone enjoys the riddle.

See, I think we've had plenty of answers. They just haven't been plastered on a billboard at the end of each episode as "look at me" revelations, but instead have been subtly woven into the overall fabric of the story. Sure, there are many unanswered questions too and certainly more to come, but it's not like they've strung us along on a bunch of vague misdirection. Quite a bit is explained within the story itself as it evolves.

das

I'm trying to remember what Lodz said to Appelonia in response to what she told him near the end. Can anyone recall what it was?

I sure enjoyed it and it made me want to watch more, but it looks like that won't happen until '05

My wife disagrees, but it seems that there is no show that can't be made better with teen lesbian scenes.

I would say that there is plenty of unanswered questions from me, but I don't mind them becuase it "feels" like they could do an incredible job of tying it all together and making me say, "wow, that was a very intricate weave of stuff that all came together. Plus we had some teen lesbian scenes."

I agree, but it seems to me that the answers springboard to new questions, if that makes sense. Let me try to restate it. At the beginning, I did not know crap, except it looked interesting. By the end of the first show, there were a few basic questions.

But now, I find myself wondering about the tatooed man, the war scenes in flashbacks, the guy in the mine, the tavatar thing, who is management, who is alive in the fire, and hundreds more including (for Dave) are they going to show more teen lesbian scenes?

It's not like all of that is a bad thing. I used to scoff at those that didn't like Twin Peaks because it did not wrap up the show neatly enough. But I feel like it's a bit much, and perhaps that is just me. It could have a lot to do with my inability to spend time thinking about the things in this show. I do like the show.

I guess it's mainly the delay that bothers me. I have ZERO problem with a lot of unanswered questions if the show was coming back in a week, or a few months. But over a year?

I did wonder a few days ago if there was a website that one could go to and read more about this show, something other than HBO's site. I would like to read some more about the details in the show. HBO's forum is really crappy.

http://www.carnivale.org and, of course, http://www.carnivale.org/forum/index.php

Exactly.

"Vague misdirection" is what Lynch usually seems to be practicing.

"How long have you known? It can't be her! This is madness! You cannot do this! Madness!"

I have been surprised that no one else has brought up that line here, as I think it indicates something very important about Sophie (though I'm not sure what ).

I knew it was something like that, but I couldn't remember what the exact wording was. I agree that this is an important line, and I have been trying to figure out what it could mean.

Could it have something to do with Appelonia's rape? (Sophie being the child)

Something to do with Iris?

Maybe Sophie and Ben are related. They have different mothers, but the father could be the same.

Another thing I have been contemplating is the whole deal with Sophie and her mother. It would be interesting if Sophie was the one who holds the mindreading and fortunetelling gifts instead of her mother. The conversations with her mother could be a way of making everyone think it was her mother with the "gift".

The conversation with Lodz could possibly have something to do with that theory.

I just got around to watching the last two episodes and enjoyed them thouroughly. I think that the line by Lodz that is quoted above is indeed very important. I would be shocked if Sophie is really dead, because I believe she will play a important role in the next season. I am looking forward to season 2, and don't feel that the way they ended it was too abrupt (although it's taken me this long to watch the finale, so I'm not one who needs instant gratification )

I'd rank this as my third favorite HBO drama, behind The Wire and The Sopranos.

I just finished watching the last 5 episodes. I had them recorded on my dish PVR. I saw something interesting in the episode/scene where Sophie sees her mother being raped. I could have sworn the guy looked like Brother Justin. I rewound and watched it in still frame. IT WAS HIM! He had dark brown hair and a large tatoo on his back. I did this 4 times to make sure I wasn't imagining it. My girlfriend was watching with me and agreed it was him. We were like OH MY GOD, Brother Justin is Sophie's father. If anyone else has the episode recorded with tivo/pvr go back and look again.