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Leno spanking Letterman

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Leno spanking Letterman

Old 11-03-03, 04:34 PM
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Re: Leno spanking Letterman

Originally posted by atlantamoi
....Not surprisingly, the Letterman side has some aggressive counterarguments, from the weakness of much of CBS's lineup of shows at 10 p.m. and the late news of CBS stations, to new quirks in the television ratings system.
How about Letterman is just annoying to watch? All he does is laugh at himself, and others. Then, he'll stop, and start again. At least Leno makes others laugh, you know? The guy is so much more entertaining.
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Old 11-03-03, 04:37 PM
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I can't stand the way Leno has to explain the joke after he tells it.
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Old 11-03-03, 04:45 PM
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Re: Leno spanking Letterman

Originally posted by atlantamoi
Indeed, if they had penalties for taunting in television, NBC would surely draw a flag. "I think there are two factors here," Mr. Zucker said in a telephone interview. "The 'Tonight' show has gotten stronger because Jay and his producer, Debbie Vickers, have brought freshness to the comedy; and I think the Letterman show appears more tired."

He added: "I think it's hard for the national media to accept the fact that Jay is so dominant. The national media has always been more drawn to the dark, brooding cynicism of Dave, rather than the populist wit of Jay."

Rob Burnett, one of Mr. Letterman's executive producers, offers the consistent CBS response to Mr. Leno's ratings lead: no matter what the ratings say, Mr. Letterman remains the more original, more worthy talent.

"There are two parts of the so-called late-night war," Mr. Burnett said. "One is: who's the best. That part of the war is over. Dave won."

Read the above paragraphs, and then see for yourself which network is doing the taunting. It seems to me that NBC is stating facts, and CBS is giving opinions.... but that's me....
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Old 11-03-03, 04:47 PM
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Letterman
The Late Show
Leno
The Tonight Show

i.e. Letterman always has been and always will be far and away the better performer with the better show.

I don't hate Leno, and at times, he can be funny, be the whole of the Tonight Show is pure crap.
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Old 11-03-03, 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by brizz
I think this is happening more due to the fact that smarter people watch Dave, and shows like the Daily Show are drawing them away. The drones who tune into leno every night largely do so out of habit...just turn on channel 4 and leave it. But more discriminating folks that tend to prefer Letterman are going elsewhere due to more choices of late and that's hurting Dave's numbers....
well spun, is more like it....
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Old 11-03-03, 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Eric F
Which show did Johnny make an appearance on after he retired?
I give. Which show?
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Old 11-03-03, 06:03 PM
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If Letterman had gotten the Tonight Show gig and Leno was stuck on CBS 10 years ago would we even know who Jay Leno is today?
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Old 11-03-03, 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by atlantamoi
Letterman might not be the best interviewer, but in 20 years of watching his show I rarely tune in for whoever his guest is.
I disagree with this. I like his interviewing style more than Jay's.
Originally posted by John Spartan
The set's dreary colour palette combined with Letterman's increasingly sour personality make the Late Show unattractive when you flip past it. Tonight Show is bright, shiny and energetic.
Yeah, the Late Show's set could use a "Queer Eye" makeover too...

And since scroll2b seems to be the only one defending Leno/Tonight Show I say this:

You said "It seems to me that NBC is stating facts, and CBS is giving opinions..."

These "facts" are based on the Nielsens, right? Well, we know how accurate they are at weeding out quality from shit, right...?

Whew...good thing too. I was getting tired of watching Boomtown.

Bring on the Average Joe Millionare Survior Who Wants To Marry My Big Brother!! Now that's some QUALITY programming right there. And it MUST be true since Nielsen said so.
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Old 11-03-03, 08:45 PM
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Re: Re: Leno spanking Letterman

Originally posted by scroll2b
How about Letterman is just annoying to watch? All he does is laugh at himself, and others. Then, he'll stop, and start again. At least Leno makes others laugh, you know? The guy is so much more entertaining.


Honestly, I just don't find Letterman funny. I tried - I swear I tried. And I'm not your Average Joe television viewer. I'm not stupid and I consider myself to have at least some taste - I just don't laugh at anything Letterman says or does. I just don't like him. Leno, on the other hand, I find to be highly entertaining and funny. Personal preference.
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Old 11-03-03, 09:30 PM
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shaun3000- Johnny was on Letterman's show and said he was the real "heir to the throne".
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Old 11-03-03, 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by Rogue588
Yeah, the Late Show's set could use a "Queer Eye" makeover too...
How droll. It's not all or nothing. The current set has this grey, mortuary look to it. Unless you're a gloomy jackass who can only relate to others through biting sarcasm (is that why you're defending it?), it's not the kind of visual you want to tune into every night on what's supposed to be a comedy show. It doesn't mean he has to turn it into Leno's set either. Dave's older set during his first few years against Leno were perfect. It was lively without being too colourful or cheesy.
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Old 11-03-03, 09:35 PM
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This is what I don't get, all but about two people in this thread have been pro Lettermen, so who the hell is watching Leno? Joe Six pack and the older generation, I guess. The same thing happened last year when someone started a Leno Vs. Letterman thread. Dave was the clear winner.

The person who made the point about if Dave had gotten the Tonight Show and Leno had gone to CBS was right on. Leno would be uch farther behind, if he even made it.

By the way, Carson made his cameo on Lettermen. He did a walk through during one of his shows, said nothing, and left the stage some time during Daves first year on CBS. As far as I know, this was about carsons last public appearence. He is now a hermit living in Nowhere, USA.
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Old 11-03-03, 09:35 PM
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That must have been a great night for Dave. Johnny Carson is his hero.

Was that one of Johnny's last public appearances? I know he has pretty much become a recluse.
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Old 11-03-03, 09:59 PM
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Leno's an ass clown and this just proves my point that most Americans are idiots.
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Old 11-03-03, 10:03 PM
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I've found Dave's bits have become a lot more stupid in the last couple of years. I tuned in to see the Survivor castaways, and Monty told this terrible, unfunny story every time. It wasn't so dumb it was funny (like putting a bunch of guys in a pirate suit into a coffee shop... that's great!) but it was just BAD.

Anyways, I'd say Leno seems dead inside, while Lettermen seems real.
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Old 11-03-03, 10:11 PM
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I just hope Dave hasn't gotten to a point where he isn't willing to try to do something to bring the numbers back. He is the best, has the awards, and is the media "darling."

I too, have noticed that Dave seems to get huge numbers in any thread here and yet Jay gets millions more viewers.

Letterman wouldn't have to change his set drastically, it does need to reflect NY and not Hollywood, but some kind of change would get a lot of attention.

Also, I too agree Letterman viewers watch the Daily Show. I know it's also a really popular show in these threads, but Jon Stewart is the only person out there that I can see being in the same league as Conan and Dave.

Letterman should can Kilborn and sign Jon Stewart. If he brought the same brand of humor to his own show, brought a lot of the "correspondents" to do bits and writing, it could be huge and also get CBS a lot of attention and younger people might watch Dave until the Late Late Show With Jon Stewart came on.

CBS affiliates may also put the show on right after Letterman. They show a 30 minute syndicated show in many markets now, while Conan is on right after Jay.

I know Stewart has made the Daily Show one of the best shows on TV, but he's the guy who should follow Dave and possibly take over when Dave leaves.

It would be a bold move and I bet the rating would go up a lot.
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Old 11-03-03, 10:29 PM
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I too, have noticed that Dave seems to get huge numbers in any thread here and yet Jay gets millions more viewers.
That's because only smart people watch and "get" Letterman. Stupid sheep, of whom there are plenty more of, are those that watch Leno. Don't you know that?
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Old 11-04-03, 12:01 AM
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But the show's lagging performance and Mr. Letterman's apparent disinclination to take any special steps to deal with the ratings falloff cannot help but be worrisome to CBS executives
This really explains it all. The Late Show has been losing its time slot for almost a decade yet Letterman is too arrogant and stubborn to do anything about it. Jay is the complete opposite. He is the hardest working and at the top yet takes nothing for granted. He does not sit on his laurels like Letterman does and will continue to try to stretch his lead while The Late Show has its head in the sand. Letterman wins the critical acclaim and the awards yet can not translate that into ratings. I remember how Letterman gloated over his initial rating triumph over The Tonight Show. This must be a bitter pill for him to swallow year in year out.

Why the one-sided contest, because Leno is more entertaining and enjoyable to watch. I enjoy Lenoís high energy monologue and the manic pacing of it. It seems more Carson like than Lettermanís into. Letterman at times seems bored and seems to just go through the motions on his show. And so what if Jay kisses butt. Carson did it and I have seen Letterman do it often also.

Maybe Jay earned himself a few more viewers for doing those things, but you have to ask yourself: Who would you rather be? Jay or Dave?"
NBC has a much stronger lineup at 10 p.m., the better to funnel more viewers to late local news, which is also far stronger on NBC stations, and then into the "Tonight" show.
What Leno did with Arnold was pure ratings genius. The TV business is all about ratings and the public has spoken: Leno is better. It is just silly for Lettermanís producers to say The Late Show deserves style points. They know it is all about winning the time slot. The viewing public has spoken and the resounding answer is that Leno is the better show. Instead of acting like a child picking up the ball and running away with it because he was losing, CBS executives and Letterman himself should try to figure out how to get back into the game. Otherwise, it is game, set, match.
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Old 11-04-03, 12:10 AM
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Not to hijack this thread but I tuned in late to Letterman tonight and was wondering why Paul is hosting?
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Old 11-04-03, 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by AJW
Not to hijack this thread but I tuned in late to Letterman tonight and was wondering why Paul is hosting?
Letterman is at the hospital because his girlfriend is giving birth
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Old 11-04-03, 12:37 AM
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i'll say it again and again, leno has NOTHING on dave! letterman is more clever, witty, an interesting interviewer and has terrific writers. his ability to stand his ground and not fold to executives who want an eye-candy set and ass kissing host is admirable, but, the fact that he CAN get away with not bowing to their heavy fists says a lot about himself. there's a lot of respect for him and his executives know this and appreciate it.

btw, for those saying he's bitter and boring, stay tuned for dave the father. i bet he gets a lot softer when the baby takes hold of his life!
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Old 11-04-03, 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Anthony Reed


What Leno did with Arnold was pure ratings genius. The TV business is all about ratings and the public has spoken: Leno is better. It is just silly for Lettermanís producers to say The Late Show deserves style points. They know it is all about winning the time slot. The viewing public has spoken and the resounding answer is that Leno is the better show. Instead of acting like a child picking up the ball and running away with it because he was losing, CBS executives and Letterman himself should try to figure out how to get back into the game. Otherwise, it is game, set, match. [/B]
What Leno did and does is pandering. He's worse than Arsenio ever was. I don't deny that it's working, but I don't think it's something that displays Leno's genius as a host or entertainer.

So ratings points determine who is better? That's as arbitrary as saying the Emmys prove Letterman is better.

All other things aside, I bet a LARGE part of the 2 million difference tune in for the better guests Leno gets because he kisses ass, asks nothing controversial, and because most of the celebrities only need to be "limoed" in from their So. Cal mansions.
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Old 11-04-03, 06:24 AM
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Re: Leno spanking Letterman

Im willing to bet there are a lot of people that watch The Tonight Show just because its the "cool" show to watch. I mean, it does have all of that history, and its taped in California! Seriously, there are people this dumb. Also, the sheep are probably more attracted to the Tonight Show because they tend to get a lot more mainstream guests, whereas Letterman will have some people on every so often that arent really that famous yet...sheep arent interested in people that arent that famous yet.

Honestly, I just rarely laugh at Jay. Granted Dave has his own unfunny moments and even a few groans per episode, but theres more than enough funny to make up for it. Jay just doesnt cut it.


Originally posted by atlantamoi
Not surprisingly, the Letterman side has some aggressive counterarguments, from the weakness of much of CBS's lineup of shows at 10 p.m. and the late news of CBS stations, to new quirks in the television ratings system.
Ok, and the late news of CBS stations is different from the late news of NBC and ABC stations how?
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Old 11-04-03, 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by John Spartan
Unless you're a gloomy jackass who can only relate to others through biting sarcasm (is that why you're defending it?)

John, I suggest that you leave out comments like these. Their only use is to insult other member who happen to disagree with you.
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